Superman Through the Ages! Forum

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I just joined Supermanica a couple of weeks ago, and I've enjoyed updating it (well, I just went to Belize for a week, but I enjoyed it before that.) We've already flogged the Crisis horse to death, but I do have a couple of other questions about potential canonical sources, mostly pertaining to the Golden Age Superman.

I'm assuming that newspaper strips aren't canonical unless they are reprints of comic books, (plus they're not listed in the canonical sources) but in the case of the radio show, can the characters created in that show (Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Atom Man) be referenced to the radio show, or do we begin only with their first comic appearances? If we can reference radio origins, what would the abbreviations be?

Beyond that, I have a question about a couple of other books. I have come into possession of what I think is the first Superman graphic novel, Superman Smashes the Secret of the Mad Director (1966) by George S. Elrick. I think it deserves to be added to the canonical sources; plus, I would like to write the entry on it.

My last question pertains to novels. Maggin's novels are included in the canonical sources, but George Lowther's is not. I guess my question is the ever-annoying "Why?"

Thanks for your patience. Back to my writing...

I've wondered about the radio show as well.  It seems that the characters who made their premiers there are also adequately introduced in the comics.  If we ever decide to include it, I suppose it would be abbreviated as STRP --Superman the Radio Program.  

Maggin's novels are there because he is the patron saint of pre-Crisis Superman (and of this site) and because he developed the characters almost more than any other writer.  

Tell is more about these other sources.

The other two sources that I mentioned are George Lowther's 1942 Superman novel:

http://superman.nu/a/Novels/adv.php

and Superman Smashes the Secret of the Mad Director (1966) by George S! Elrick (ok, so I added that exclamation point.) In this tale, Lois and Clark are investigating a film director, who makes horribly realistic movies. They discover that the people in his movies are being mind-controlled through some sort of contact lenses and proceed to stop him. It's a good example of the classic relationship between Lois and Clark, where she suspects that he is Superman but cannot prove it. Though an obscure book, it might be the first Superman graphic novel, published by Whitman with a 29-cent cover.

I also have the radio scripts book for "Superman vs. the Atom Man." Was Atom Man ever introduced in the comics?

World's Finest #271 (which I finally found a copy of a few months ago) shows Superman meeting Atoman (odd spelling). The story was an anniversary issue of the Superman-Batman teamups, and meant to be Roy Thomas' attempt at reconciling all of the various contradictory "first meetings" of the two heroes (with the "Robin meets Superboy" story thrown in for good measure). The main plot involved Atoman showing up on Earth-One to battle Superman and Batman; we're shown his origin, and how the original radio story apparently took place on Earth-Two (though the origin shown here doesn't reconcile with how the Earth-2 Superman didn't discover kryptonite until that 1949 "Swami Riva" story---unless that story took place earlier than originally published...).

-B.

Thank Rao for Roy Thomas and his needle and thread!

Yes, he did a pretty nice job---though he did forget to include *one* Batman-meets-Superman story: the "Executioner" tale. Then again, since everyone *else* forgot about said tale, guess he was in the clear... ;-)

IMHO, Maggin's novels would normally not be considered canon.

But they were brought into continuity by the Superwoman/Kristin Wells stories.  Said issues made Miracle Monday canon.  Miracle Monday had references to Last Son of Krypton which made that canon, too.

But without those Superwoman issues, I'd leave Maggin's novels out of canon.

Regardless of how great a contributor to the SA era Elliot was, it's the actual comics that determine whether his work is canon or not.

I guess I would ask, under what circumstances would a vast Superman encyclopedia, cribbed from an already existing but outdated 20-year-old book, created by fans of Maggin's novels (who hate most aspects of the modern Superman since 1986) be considered "normal"?  :D

Maggin's novels are ultimately one of the top 3 reasons for the creation of Supermanica and by extension, this message board, the notion of an exclusionary canon, etc.

As I said above ...



Maggin's novels are in canon.  But not because he's such an integral part of the SA.  It's because the comics directly reference his novels that they're canon.

Certainly, Fleischer's encyclopedia clearly stuck to the published comics and didn't consider anything outside of them to be canon.  The comics-referencing-Maggin's-novels reasoning the same kind of rationale for inclusion.

The radio shows, movies, etc. wouldn't be canon since they aren't directly referenced in the comics.

And yet some managed to sneak in:

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Michael_L._Fleisher_of_Earth-Prime

True...but Michael Fleisher was mentioned in Miracle Monday.

 :D That picture's funny...I need a copy of The Great Superman Book, but don't have the 60 bucks that they want on Amazon.com. Anyone feeling charitable today?

My dogeared copy is a family heirloom.

I think that makes sense, (the explanation about why Maggin's novels are canonical) and pretty much answers my questions. Miracle Monday is mentioned at least 3 times in the comics, and refers to LSOK and the events of Luthor's Gift.
If at least some of the radio adventures happened to Superman of Earth-2, then the 1942 novel could be canonical...but I haven't read it yet and can't make that determination. Roger Stern's novels, on the other hand....definitely not. They don't include Superboy in the origin.

Another thing that should eventually be discussed (though we have plenty of sources to cover right now) is whether to eventually include Justice League of America comics.

Heh heh

I forgot about that joke Anderson pic in TGSB.

That was clearly an in-joke and not to be taken as a serious reference in Fleischer's encyclopedia.  Michael wrote as if Superman's adventures occurred in the real world and didn't distinguish between the various eras, the Earth-1 vs Earth-2 models, or the modern vs golden age Supermen.  He treated the whole super-history as if it were the same character throughout and lived in our world.  Alternate worlds were not invoked unless they were a specific element of a particular story.

That having been said, if we're following Fleischer's lead on this, the JLA sources might be questionable since they did distinguish between the Earth-1 and Earth-2 Supermen.

Of course, since Earth-2 references in the 70s books are canonical, multiverse articles now abound in Supermanica, although the initial Fleisher Superman article still stands as a major work of scholarship.

Very good point, Telle.  Fleischer seemed to cut his book off just before the 1970s, though he did include a pic or two of the 1970s Lois but no actual story references after the 1960s.  I suspect he ran out of time and had to produce something publishable esp. since this coincided with the first Superman movie with Reeves.

Given as you reminded me that alternate world versions of Superman are indeed referenced in the Bronze Age superbooks, I can see no logical reason anymore to omit the Justice League/Justice Society references.

Except that they have been deemed not canonical by decree of the Supermanica overlords, a higher power beyond appeal to such human concepts as logic, etc. :D

Not to mention, less than 1/100th of the current canonical texts have been referenced in entries in Supermanica. Including another entire 30-year series seems a little like getting ahead of ourselves.  We have a lot of work ahead just to fill in the post-Fleisher work as well as the series he didn't cover (Lois, Jimmy, etc).

Actually, that would be the Earth-1 Michael Fleishcer.