Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Superman Comic Books! => Superman! => Topic started by: Beyonder on March 01, 2005, 07:11:48 AM



Title: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Beyonder on March 01, 2005, 07:11:48 AM
Okay, here's the scenario:

Supes just fought an aliance of his foes (The Prankster, the Toyman, Bizarro Superman and Mxy-- well, don't ask), when suddenly, he encounters a pice of Red Kryptonite, which entirelly cancels his vulnerability to Red Sun Radiation, Kryptonite of any color, Gravitation Attacks, and Magic. His code against killing also takes a powder.This effect lasts for exactly 48 hours.

It also messes with Supes' mind, so that he feels compelled to travel to the Marvel universe - which he does by virtue of his awesome power which is his by birthright - and clobber the MU's dark Guardian, the Living Tribunal!!


Here are the rules. It's "Weisingerman", that is, Superman of the Sixties, before he fell victim to the effects of the Sandman Saga-- allowing Supes the range of his near-omnipotence. Remember his awesome feats???

There will be no tie or cope-out.

Who wins?!


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Beyonder on March 01, 2005, 07:14:49 AM
I voted vor Supes. I DO think he can do a lot more damage then LT-- especially, if he's without his "don't kill" code.


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Beyonder on March 01, 2005, 08:48:01 AM
Hey, cool!  8)

Superman is allready in the lead!

But how comes no one debattes this fight?


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Gary on March 01, 2005, 09:34:47 AM
The LT is pretty much a plot device. The winner would be whomever the writer wanted it to be.


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Beyonder on March 01, 2005, 09:38:26 AM
Now, that's unfair. You could say the same about Superman, or Batman in the Nineties' JLA boks.

The Tribunal is a character in his own right.


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Gary on March 01, 2005, 02:07:10 PM
Sure he's a character, but that isn't the issue. Supey and (especially) Bats have well-defined powers and limitations. The LT doesn't. I can make lists of definite things that Superman can and can't do. Can you do the same for the LT?


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Captain Kal on March 01, 2005, 02:19:48 PM
It depends on how the LT is written.

In What IF Korvac hadn't died, the LT made our sun go supernova and Korvac not only survived that but protected the entire Earth as well.  The LT then claimed that was his ultimate retribution and he was incapable of standing against Korvac, so he gave up that version of the MU for lost and sealed it off from all the other MU timelines.

Superman at his peak portrayals is way beyond a mere supernova in comparison.

In fact, according to "Costume, Costume, Who's Got the Costume?" he's capable of generating power enough to counter the entire GLC whose power was negating all the infinite possible futures of Earth save for the Kamandi timeline at the time.  That's power to counter at least a multiverse, dude.

To be fair, I tend to side with the LT as he's usually intended to be written.  But in the MU we do have precedent for the LT being written as not so absolutely omnipotent.  If this were in the DCU of any variety, Superman wins in any incarnation simply because the LT has no jurisdiction in the DCU.  It's not even an argument.


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Gary on March 01, 2005, 02:25:42 PM
Yeah, but there's also precedent for the LT being far more powerful than that. Like Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 where his power is clearly at least comparable to that of the six Infinity Gems.


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Beyonder on March 02, 2005, 04:03:03 AM
Quote from: "Gary"
Sure he's a character, but that isn't the issue. Supey and (especially) Bats have well-defined powers and limitations. The LT doesn't. I can make lists of definite things that Superman can and can't do. Can you do the same for the LT?


In the Nineties, especially in the JLA series, Batman WAS more of an plot device then a actual character. The same goes for his abilities.

Let's get to the star of this board, shall we?  :wink:

Superman's powers - PRE-Crisis - allways seemed to rise to whatever level any given crisis would demand.

For instance, Kal-El once uttered a "Super-Scream", which altered the molecular structure of the ground of the "Superboy Plaanet", effectively transfomed one substance into another, on a molecular level! Usually, you need Firestorm, Element Lad or an GL Ring to do anything like that.

Or how about the many times projected his voice via Super Ventriloquism (gah, was THAT the right way to spell this word?? This word is even harder to spell then "scientist) even across the gulf of outer space, to be "heard" only by exactly those Supes choose to do so, thusly effectively mimicing telepathy?

And those were but 2 examples.

How about the time Supes OBLITERATED an entire, distant solar system with a mere random sneeze?? And if that happens when he sneezes, imagine what would happen if he really gets mad, and REALLY excerts his power?

Sorry, but I'd wager the Tribunal would LOSE to Kaal-El 9/10-- but only as long as Supes doesn't suffer from his many limitations, especially that magic vul.


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Beyonder on March 02, 2005, 04:06:29 AM
Quote from: "Captain Kal"

It depends on how the LT is written.

In What IF Korvac hadn't died, the LT made our sun go supernova and Korvac not only survived that but protected the entire Earth as well.  The LT then claimed that was his ultimate retribution and he was incapable of standing against Korvac, so he gave up that version of the MU for lost and sealed it off from all the other MU timelines.

Superman at his peak portrayals is way beyond a mere supernova in comparison.

In fact, according to "Costume, Costume, Who's Got the Costume?" he's capable of generating power enough to counter the entire GLC whose power was negating all the infinite possible futures of Earth save for the Kamandi timeline at the time.  That's power to counter at least a multiverse, dude.

To be fair, I tend to side with the LT as he's usually intended to be written.  But in the MU we do have precedent for the LT being written as not so absolutely omnipotent.  If this were in the DCU of any variety, Superman wins in any incarnation simply because the LT has no jurisdiction in the DCU.  It's not even an argument.


You said it, Cap.  8)


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Daybreaker on March 03, 2005, 01:58:15 AM
I gotta go with the Living Tribunal.  Superman has always been kind of vulnerable to beings with powers that abstract.


Title: Re: Superman versus the Living Tribunal
Post by: Beyonder on March 03, 2005, 03:57:27 AM
Yes, but that was mostly due to his magic vul. Take it away from him, and guess who's going to get the Laurel?  :s: