Superman Through the Ages! Forum

I have been looking everywhere fo info on how strong John Byrnes Superman is here is what i got so far (with figures).

1. DC Whos who says that he can easily lift the weight of the great pyrimad (5,750,000 tons)

2. In Superman man of steel #2 He easily lifts a space that easily weighted 150,000 tons.

3. Action comics #585 he lifts a mountain that is the size of metropoiles and it weighted 40 billion tons (he does it with great differculty).

Dosnt anyone have any info on the peak strength of John Byrne Superman.

The main focus of this site is the pre-crisis Superman of the Golden, Sliver and Bronze Ages. So you might be better off or have better luck finding the answer on DC's own Superman boards than here.

Or at the John Byrne Forums.

I would pit 40 billion tons as hit peak strength under Byrne then.

Granted, the last ten years has seen a Silver-Age Redux period, where Superman has become more powerful. He was at his weakest under John Byrne. I divide the last 20 years of Superman stories into two periods:

1985 (Crisis)-1995 is the Iron Age where Superman retained the characteristics that Byrne gave him. 1996 (Kingdom Come)- Present has been undoing Byrne as much as possible, through the efforts of Mark Waid and Jeph Loeb, mostly.

Byrne's just like every other creator in this respect: he may have started out with a clear idea of the limits of Superman's powers, but they were subject to change as the storyline demanded.

It's been my experience that when pros and fans (like Byrne) complain about Superman being "too powerful" what they really mean is that he doesn't get beat up enough.  Byrne "solved" this by having Superman's clock cleaned on a regular basis.  If fans had been clamoring for the sight of Superman with bruises, a bloody lip or torn clothes this period was paradise.

Could Byrne's Superman have moved the Earth out of its orbit?  It's hard to imagine, but if he wrote a story where it had to be done, I'll bet good money Superman would have pulled it off.  Certainly in the years since Byrne left the books, his "de-powered" Superman has risen to his Silver Age power levels or higher.  And yet he still gets beat up.  So it looks like they found a way to have their cake and eat it too.

Bottom line is I don't put much stock in references that claim to nail down the power levels of any given character.  Depending on who's writing the story, it goes up and down all the time.  This week Superman beats Thor, next week it could go the other way based on the writer's bias, the story the book's appearing in or a hundred other variables.

I don't get "power level" at all...it seems like a video game quantification that's not very interesting...

It's also very limiting.  Why establish exactly how powerful every character is, and then have to stick to it?  It doesn't add to the fun of battles, it takes away from them...how can it be fun if you know from the start who must win?

I never knew why this stuff appealed anyway, but it goes way back.  Even when I was a kid (when dinosaurs ruled the Earth) I had a friend who was obsessed with arguing whether the Hulk could beat Superman.  I always said "no" and he would come up with all sorts of examples of the Hulk's feats of strength.  Finally I said, "So what? The Hulk is a mental two-year old.  He could be the most powerful creature in the Universe but if he's too stupid to know his left foot from his right, Superman will beat him every day of the week."

He never liked that answer.

And those same people make the complaint that if Batman can't take down everyone, it is bad writing.  :roll:

They have to tear Superman down both physically and emotionally because he is so bright.  

They think standing for hope, fun, and life are unreallistic goals and are obscene to write about.  Yuck.

The powers were not the real heart of Superman.  His compassion and love for a planet that gave him a home, after his homeworld blew up, is the heart of Superman.  Byrne doesn't get that.

Superman is a man of great love and great hate.  

If I could ever find it, there is this excellent story where the Parasite starts draining the world of its emotional support of Superman.  Superman was able to beat the Parasite after looking into a photo alblum and a picture of the Kents.

A misremembered quote:

"The people who gave me the most support are beyond his his grasp."

The new Superman might have a lot of physical strength, but he is so wishy-washy.

I don't mind consistency in how strong Superman is.  I do think it becomes pretty difficult to maintain three or more titles a month when the main character is essentially omnipotent, too.  At least, I think they would have to do it differently than they've done it thus far.

I don't know I think a talented writer can work with an all powerful character. The reason of the power down was for the fan's who felt he was no fun to read because he could do anything. Hopefully The new All Star Superman with Grant Morrison in the pre crisis age will show that it can be done as long as you arent working with a hack. Also the only reason Batman wins in fights against Superman is it has become fasionable for an ordinary guy to show he can accomplish such a big task. I see this trend ending soon though as people are getting tired of seeing Supes getting his ass kicked by the dark knight all the time. It was interesting at first to see the underdog win but now it's just getting unrealistic.

My thoughts exactly. One of the main problems of today's comics is that things have gotten so serious that they've become grim ... even going to the point of being sullen and fatalistic. I think people are getting tired of it, and they want a return to comics being fun!

Well, let's put it this way.  A writer's job is to take a character and make him work.  Batman doesn't have any powers at all, so why don't writers complain about that? ("How can I write a book about a guy who has no powers!")  Superman has a great deal of power, so deal with it.  Put yourself in the head of a guy with god-like powers and try to imagine the choices, the struggles, the challenges he would face.  Today's creators are overpaid hacks if they can't do what guys in the 60s and 70s did on a regular basis for peanuts.

Anyway, the "too powerful" complaint is simple...There is a class of fan and creator for whom comics will forever be about one thing: people hitting other people.  Villains hit innocents, heroes hit villains and if things get slow heroes hit other heroes.  Marvel pioneered this school of "two guys in costume meet and have a fight, then it turns out they're both good guys."  Bleh.

When the only stories you're capable of telling are fight stories, you certainly DON'T want a guy with the powers of a god.  Your story will end on page 1 every time.  But if you have any talent, you can tell stories about something other than fights.  

And odds are you're not writing for comics.

...at least not anymore.


It is just rich that fan boys complain about Superman being too powerful yet here I am reading the classic Batman Hulk crossover that has Batman beating the Holy-bat droppings out of Hulk as if he had no powers.

Heck, I bet if they had Batman beat-up Thor no one would complain, LOL!

So at the start of John Byrnes Superman run he could lift 40 billion tons (from the info that I have) So how strong was he at the end of John Byrnes run.

I haven't read all the Byrne issues, because they're not my favorite. But if I had to estimate, I would say...

40 billion tons. Byrne's whole idea was to limit Superman...I think. Actually, sometimes I wonder what Byrne was smoking. He had a vision, for sure...but that's a discussion for another day.

The Sliver age? Is that the one where Superman gets real thin?  :D

Sorry but while the focus of this site is the Gold thorugh Bronze there are stories from the Iron age as well "Identity Crisis" is definitly Iron Age.

Byrne had some good ideas in doing the revamp. The Silver-Bronze Superman was becoming much like the Brown Hornet who got out of impossible death traps by using his "increadable powers". Yes there were stories like "How to Tame a Wild Volcano" and "For the Man who has everything" but there were also "Lois Lane Witch of Metropolosis" and "Superman vs Ghost of Ceasar". Every age has is good points and bad ones. Superman is a reflection of our own culture and times.

I should point out that if you dig a little beneath the surface there are plenty of problems with the Silver-Bronze Superman. Weather control devices that could prevent floods are never used, fantasic krytonian cures that could have been adapted to help Earth human but again never used. Superman charging in to situation where jsut a little bit a of caution woudl ahve saved him a lot of grief and lets not forget the few times Lois and Lana got sueprpower and Superman let them behave like spoiled jerks rather than encourage them to do something useful with their powers.

if the iron age Superman flawed? Sure but then again so are the Gold through Bronze Supermen.

This are the limits to John Byrnes Superman powers from the info thatI have.

Super Strength: He can easily lift the great Pyramid (5,750,000 tons); He can lift about 40 billion tons (a mountain the size of Metropolis). Supermen strength is based on will power. Nevertheless the man of steel’s strength is tempered by an instinctive control of his formidable might.

Invulnerability: A tank cannon can hurt him. He can handle a few megatons and stay awake. He can survive a 40-megaton nuke at point blank (He was Knocked out for an hour). He can handle any temperatures from –400 to 3,000F easily (11,000F can burn him). He is immune to all diseases (except ones that have to do something with Kryptonite).

Force Field: Superman’s body naturally generates a force field that enhances his invulnerability. It is only mere millimeters from his skin. The force field ability does not manifest itself through conscious effort by superman. The field seems to allow objects to pass though it, however, it is evident that it affords protection to Superman’s skin costume is only torn by the most powerful blast and magical energy/ creatures.

Super Speed: Superman is capable of enhanced reflex action and the ability to move at incredible speeds. He can run at 2,000 miles per second (little over 1% of the speed of light/ 7,200,000 MPH).

Flight: Superman is capable of flying at 2,000 miles per second. His control of his flight is perfect and he can even perform aerobatic feats such as hovering, flying backwards and even lifting great weights while flying. He can lift incredible weights while flying and objects and not have them collapse under their own weight, because a powerful form of telekinesis surrounds the object protecting it from out side stress, objects weight less when he flies with them, because he is no longer using strength, but flying it the way he makes himself fly by sheer force of will. It is because his force field cancels out gravity on him and what he is lifting (he can easily fly with any thing he can lift, because of the cancellation).

Heat Vision: He may project beams of force that are capable of gentle warmth to temperatures of 11,000 degrees, sufficient to melt steel in seconds.

Telescopic Vision: He can see thousands of miles away.

Microscopic Vision: Superman has the ability see at a cellular level.

X-ray Vision: He can see through anything (except lead).

Infrared Vision: Enable him to see heat and heat travels. He can also see in the dark with this.

Super Hearing: Superman has the ability to hear at a degree that exceeds any terrestrial creature. He can hear decibel levels that humans cannot pick up and can fight using the heartbeat breath of an opponent. He can also hear in a range far better than that of the best or man-made sensors. His hearing is so acute and precise he can detect a whisper at 500 yards, but Superman can actually hear some sounds (maybe some shouts) 1,000 miles away.

Super Breath: He can condense the air in his lungs to a super-cold state and blow it out to freeze opponents or he can also exhale a super-gust or air. He can hold his breath for long periods of time up to 2 hours.

Leaping Ability: Superman can hurdle a mountain (at least 2,00 feet)

Weaknesses:
Kryptonite: It quickly reduces his ability to access his powers. As kryptonite radiation makes its way through the bloodstream, a kryptonian becomes instantly weak and ill in its unshielded presence, and prolonged exposure will render him or her unconscious (after 30 minutes to an hour depending on the size of the sample), and will eventually (after 2 to 4 hours) reach all parts of his body and bring death.

Magic: Superman is powerless against magic of any kind.

Loss of solar power: It wound take months for Superman to weaken, and perhaps years to become human like.