Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Hey all!
I'm currently taking a comic book and culture course at univeristy, and I chose to do an in-depth look at DC's revolutionary hero *dun dun dunnn* Superman!
I thought I'd post a few questions on here since I'm not as well versed in his characterization/history as I'd like to be, and I figure it'd be best to ask the experts! I'm looking at the pre-1960's Superman exclusively, and I'm trying to argue that his values and enemy-determination were reflective of the general consensus of the US public and social/political atmosphere at the time (as opposed to him being an outright fascist/racist: we had to take a stance on either side). I was wondering what your thoughts were on that? Essentially, was he a fascist 'superman' in the literal sense? Or just an average guy (well as average as he can be under the circumstances) who truely believed in truth and justice?
Also, in terms of his characterization back then-which, through research, I felt was somewhat neutral-would his persona work today? I have yet to fully explore his characterization in recent comics so unfortunately I can't take a concrete stance myself as of yet.
Well I think that's it for me! Any oppinions would be greatly appriciated. Thanks all!
~Kate

Superman... a fascist? No way! He was more a tough vigilante.
Today, Superman is more "quiet" than in the Golden Age, 'cause he always tries to do the better thing without damages.
Do you remember what happened when he attacked Qurac in the mid '80s? He understood that a Superman haven't to play judge and jury (and executioner, when he killed the 3 Kryptonians).
£ years ago circa Joe Casey wrote a story about an old journalist who was writing a book about a character very similar to the Golden Age Superman. That story demonstrated that that type of character, compared to the more modern one, isn't the right one today.

Well, I don't think the name Superman was ever intended in any Nietzschean (I can never remember how to spell that) sense. When Superman starts off in 1938, he's basically a New Dealer who fights corruption, stops war, that sort of thing. Covers of the 1940s often depict him fighting the Nazis ("Japanazis" in the colourful term of the day). It's worth remembering that his creators, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, were Jewish, and that his concerns were mainly theirs back then. (This aspect was explored by Michael Chabon in his novel The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, in which the two main characters create a comic-book hero, The Escapist, to reflect their concerns about the rise of fascism in Europe.)

As time passed, though, after the war and into the fifties, Superman became less and less politically-minded, and his enemies were more of the science fiction mold -- aliens and whatnot. He didn't seem to get engaged much in the Cold War, though you might want to look at ther thread concerning Castro vs. Superman for some ideas about that (http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2333). I suppose many of those stories, like a lot of horror films of the same period, contain veiled references to the Red Menace, using alien invasions and visitors from the future to represent Communist spies and the fear of nuclear war. By the way, by this time, his invunerability extends to surviving atomic explosions -- I wonder if this is a way of telling the reader that the Bomb is our friend.

Superman is certainly intended to be just an average guy trying to do the right thing; it's interesting to note that though he is descended from the Kryptonian equivalent of aristocracy (his father is one of his home planet's greatest scientists), on Earth he is raised on a farm and becomes a reporter, and a rather put-upon one at that. It is clear that the character never sees himself as better than the rest of humanity, but rather places himself in humanity's service; thus his chosen name, Superman, is a bit of a misnomer. Arguably, when the character was created, the word "super" was commonly used to mean something really good, not necessarily superior; perhaps he might just as well have been called Zing-Man or Pep-Man. Or possibly Vitaman.

As to whether or not his persona would work today, I feel it has remained essentially unchanged since the 1950s, though he is understandably a bit more politically correct nowadays. He is still depicted as a thoroughly decent and incorruptible human being, though he is clearly less agressive than he was back in the 30s; famously, in his first adventure, he thrashes a wife-beater, yelling "You're not fighting a woman now!" In the same story, he wrests a gun from a woman with a rather Bogartian move ("You little vixen!") and tortures a man to get information out of him. He wouldn't do that sort of thing nowadays, but then, he wouldn't have done it by the 1950s, either.

As a European (and an incurable old leftist), I do feel that Superman is often identified with American imperialism, and I sometimes resent his implicit nationalism -- "Truth, Justice and the American Way"? Why not "Truth, Justice, and the Rights of Man", or "Truth, Justice and Habeas Corpus"? Nevertheless, I don't think one can really find anything insidious or sinister about him, though I suppose if you look hard enough, hey, you can always find some dirt.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Sorry for rambling on. Now watch everybody deconstruct everything I said and make me look like a halfwit.

Personality, I think it makes no sense to refer to Superman (especially the Golden Age Superman) as a fascist. He's not some omnipresent Big Brother that wants to control everyone--he wants to do the right thing.

The current Superman really isn't political in any large sense. He tries to do the right thing and has his own code that he won't easily break. Some would accuse him of defending the status quo, but as we saw in Birthright, that isn't the case.

The Golden Age Superman actually seemed kind of left-wing to me. He was a hero to the working class (proletariat), distrusted businessmen, wasn't in favor of the status quo, and was against any politician that wanted to use people for their own selfish needs. Of course, he was much more unilateral and uncompromising than a leftist today, but things were different back then.

People often say (incorrectly) that Green Arrow was the first super-hero to develop a social conscience. The truth is that the first and greatest super-hero (Superman) was the first to develop a social conscience.

And unlike Ollie, early Superman didn't just talk it to death... 8)

Let's look at the word fascist and what it means:

fascist:
An advocate or adherent of fascism

fascism:

NOUN: 1. often Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. 2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.  

Now really who in their right mind would describe Superman like that?

I'm going to simply name the Fourteen Principles of Fascism that have popped up on the Internet, line by line, and then state how each applies to Superman before 1960.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Yes, Superman qualifies. You could argue the extent to which this was true, but Superman after Pearl Harbor was a nationalist. You can see the change in the Fleischer cartoons, and in the comics around that time. The line from the Adventures of Superman TV show was "Truth, Justice, and the American Way."

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Absolutely not. In the Superman Radio Show, Superman exposed and combatted the KKK. In the 1940 Look Magazine story "Superman ends the War" even showed Superman hauling Hitler and Stalin to Geneva and found guilty of crimes against humanity...this before US involvement in the war.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

No. Other than the "Jap" comments that happened, Superman was portrayed during this time as the "champion of the oppressed." Superman often defended the very scapegoats that fascists...well, scapegoated.

4. Supremacy of the Military

No. As stated earlier, in "Superman Ends the War" he took Hitler and Stalin to Geneva for "History's Greatest Crime- Unprovoked aggression against defenseless countries."

5. Rampant Sexism

Superman worked alongside Lois Lane at the Daily Planet, never insisting that she stay at home and wash the dishes. On the contrary, he was quite intrigued with her.

6. Controlled Mass Media

Well, Superman did conquer the media, I'll give him that. :) And even in his stories, he had a lot of control over the workings of the Daily Planet/ Daily Star... fascist!

7. Obsession with National Security

Only in the WWII period, where I'll again point out that he fought against fascists.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

Nope. Though Superman was a product of the values of his Jewish creators, his Jewishness was never brought up. He did encounter Santa Claus in 1941, but St. Nicholas is hardly a shining example of anything relating to Christianity.

9. Corporate Power is Protected

No! A product of the Depression, Superman put corporatists in jail.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

No evidence of this. Most early Superman stories involved him helping "the oppressed."

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Superman stories were a very intellectual piece of art....and the most recognized science fiction story to ever come from the U.S. While many of his early foes were scientists, that is because they were respected enough to present real challenges to Superman's abilities.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

I'll give you that one.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Nope, he fought it. This was the Great Depression, after all.

14. Fraudulent Elections

I'm not sure if Superman was ever directly involved in helping a President until President Kennedy...however, he never supported fraudulent elections, or any type of fraud at all.

So, Superman is 3/14 fascist, if you count that joke about his media job. More often, he actually fought against fascists.

I think you can argue the "nationalism" as well...pride in and working for the interests of a nation does not mean "super"imposing a sense of "super"iority... 8)

Also don't forget that Superman was also a great artist! He made all those Wax figures and he also liked to paint strange worlds.

Absolute power.  
Maybe absolute power ennobles absolutely.  Imagine super-intellegence coupled with super power.  Kal El could not be a fascist because he would be able to follow it through to the end.  An unimaginable end.  Pretty lonely universe when all dissent has been corrected!

I like to think youthful experience with the Legion and the many worlds and cultures of the 30th century convinced him of the folly of nationalism.   The "American way" gives way to the "United Planets way"   :D  yay!!

Wow thanks all!
I'm definately arguing against the fascism accusation, and this thread helped me beef up my point. I really appriciate your input, quite the interesting discussion generated though that's for sure. Cheers!

~Kate

Wow.  I just read this thread for the first time, having avoided it all week because of the misleading title.  Superman and his relation to fascism is one of my favorite topics.

Kateacular, you have been given a tough topic --to say either way whether Superman is a fascist concept or not.  I wonder what your own definition of fascism is?

To me, both Superman and fascism are subjects that are not so easy to rule on definitively.  Questions like "Is such and such political movement or person fascist?" are always going to be hard.  I think that Gangbuster Thorul is on the right track in attempting to list major aspects of fascism and try to play match-game.  

There are almost as many definitions of fascism as there are people, in my experience.  Some of the more helpful writings on the subject can be found on the left (Trotsky's anti-fascist writings, like "Fascism: What it is and How to Fight It") and on the right (Mussolini's early writings, like "What is Fascism?").  

The word has been abused since at least the 60s to the point where now even kids in grade school use it to describe any authority figure, but I think with a bit of digging you will be able to come to some sort of idea about what it means to call an individual a fascist.  For me, it is also helpful to separate fascism as a philosophy from an actual system of government.

While I sometimes fall into the trap of labelling all forms of extreme authoritarianism and state-sponsored violence "fascism," it is more useful to think of it as an ideology that combines several aspects of conservative religiosity, anti-left politics, anti-democratic politics, nationalism, anti-modernism, terrorism/vigilantism, and belief in war, hierarchies, inequality, the triumph of the will, and capitalism.

Certainly some aspects of Superman's character and mythos before 1950 fit some of these criteria.  

To take Gangbuster's list:
1. Nationalism: purportedly a citizen of the world, Superman kept the interests of the USA first and foremost
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights : if these include the right to life and liberty, privacy and due process, Superman in many pre-50 stories disregards these rights (eavesdropping, break and enter, dropping people in volcanoes,
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: in most romantic or mythic stories, the villain is the alien "Other" --in Superman comics post-WWII the structure is subtly different --with a never ending fight against evil (usually personified in super-villains) being his "other" or cause
4. Supremacy of the Military:in many ways Superman IS the military --might makes right
5. Rampant Sexism: in many stories, his attitudes are clearly sexist, or at least uninformed by feminism --from his condescending torment/training of Lois to his later (post-1950) treatment of Supergirl
6. Controlled Mass Media:I can't think of any stories in which he advocated anything but freedom of the press --so he may be off the hook, although in later years he once or twice interrupted all planetary broadcasts
7. Obsession with National Security: post WWII he waged a battle against "agents of a foreign power" in many stories
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined: a toughie: except for an implied "in god we trust" Americanism, Superman seemed beyond this.
9. Corporate Power is Protected: Superman is a self-appointed protector of private & government property, including banks and buildings
10. Labor Power is Suppressed: there are 2 later stories I'm aware of that treat labor action seriously but Superman doesn't really interfere:

"Clark Kent, Gangster" (1966) --A strike at the Daily Planet gives Clark Kent some time off to try out some new identities
"The Human Octopus" (Jimmy Olsen #41, December 1959) --attempt to unionize the Planet

Far more interesting to me is the way in which the actions of Superman preclude any attempt of organized labor to help itself or solve it's own problems.  We have discussed this in other threads:

Superman and the Nazi (http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2037&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=working+class)

Working Class Heroes (http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1528&highlight=workingclass)



Lastly, the best treatment of what a truly fascist Superman would really be like is in Elliot Maggin's novel Miracle Monday.  Pa Kent has a nightmare of Superboy taking over the world that is harrowing.  Written around 1980, so long past 1950.
 :D

Hope this helps with your homework!

I define fascism as glorification of the state, suppression of freedom, censorship, propaganda, and an emphasis of order. I don't think Superman falls into this category at all. In many ways he's a target because (1) He's a big part of Americana and (2) because he has vast power and people don't trust individuals with great power a lot of the time.

Since we're going through Gangbuster's list, I will as well.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Superman doesn't fit here. He's the ultimate orphan and wasn't exactly an apologist for this or any other country. He did what was right despite what the laws were. His morality, in a sense, was objective to man-made laws.

The Golden Age Superman saw fit to punish anyone that did wrong, whether they were from another country or from this one. Heck, the guy even went after corrupt politicians and businessmen.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

The Golden Age Superman was a vigilante and did kill, but it didn't seem to me like he disdained human rights. He cared greatly for the working class men and women and hated those that abused them.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

Not until the war, when the Axis powers were depicted on covers.

4. Supremacy of the Military

Given his shaky, at best, relationship with the police, I shudder to think about how the Superman and the military could've butted heads. But again, this changed during the war.

5. Rampant Sexism

For Superman's time he wasn't sexist. He did a few questionable things as Superman in regards to women, but nothing I would call sexist. He was attracted to a fiercly independent woman that actually berated him as Clark Kent. But this wasn't a misogynistic revenge fantasy because Lois was essentially a good person.

6. Controlled Mass Media

Again, no. Superman never tried to control the media.

7. Obsession with National Security

Yes. Superman was very concerned about this. But look at it from his perspective: he had to deal with both fascist countries and evil scientists. I'd say he actually had a reason to be concerned. Heck, without Superman the world probably would've been conquered by Luthor or Ultra.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

Nope. Superman wasn't some religious zealot.

9. Corporate Power is Protected

Yeah, right. :lol:

The original Superman is one of the most anti-corporate characters I've ever seen. Heck, look at the way capitalists like Wolfingham are portrayed. Superman seemed to greatly distrust the rich most of the time.  

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

No. Superman was pro-proletariat.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

I've never seen an example of this. Besides, Superman himself was a genius. You can't hate intellectuals if you are one yourself (in theory, that is).

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Yes. He's a super-hero.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

No. Superman's main enemy was corruption, whether it was politicians, businessmen, or scientists.

14. Fraudulent Elections

Never seen this in the comics, but Superman wouldn't approve due to his hatred of corruption. If you were keeping count, he only possesses two out of the 14 traits--he's hardly a fascist.

Honestly, while I can see where the idea of a Big Brother type super-hero might come from, I don't feel that it's very accurate (though it would make a good story). Superman doesn't want power or absolute order, he wants people to not be hurt and exploited. He's an enemy of the selfish and power-hungry.