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Author Topic: Thoughts & speculations about Krypton.  (Read 26442 times)
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llozymandias
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2005, 08:11:17 AM »

The oldest known humanoids in the DC Multiverse (earth-1 universe at least) are the Guardians/Controllers.  It could be that there is another group that splintered off.  This one before Krona's time.  They decided to travel the universe, seeding other planets with life.  And since they are humanoids, they decide that most of the intelligent species they "create" will be humanoid.


       In Jor-El's time the kryptonians (some of them anyway) did know that they would acquire superpowers under a yellow star.  They probably did not know the full extent of those powers though.  The phantom zone prisoners were (for the most part) Kal's equals in power.  Yet they were never shown using their abilities at "full power".  Maybe Kal's "holding back" is a trait that is now common to all kryptonians.
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John Martin, citizen of the omniverse.
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2005, 09:03:31 AM »

Quote from: "MatterEaterLad"
The fossil record is rife with convergence, parallelisms...but when you look at the anatomy, many structures betray this...icthyosaurs have many features that indicate their reptilian heritage, camels and litopterns many others (litopterns have completely different braincases and the molar teeth are not selenodont like artiodactyls like camels for example)...so, I suppose its not IMPOSSIBLE, but its pretty dang un parsimonious...

Still, I like unlikely things, that's why I liked comics when I was a kid...

But WHY does the flame dragon have an opposable thumb or the thought beast project images from a third party's view?  Cheesy


Re: parallel evolution: Yes, on Earth, in similar circumstances, similar forms have developed to fill the same needs.

We have two problems with that for humanoid aliens in general and Kryptonians and Daxamites in particular.

First, those alien environments tend to be far different than any Terrestrial ones.  Even all other things being the same, that danged high-G would at the very least tend to produce shorter, more heavily-muscled beings instead of the virtually indistinguishable from us humanoids.  They even tend to look more physically imposing than we do instead of being smaller.

Second, they're demonstrably able to interbreed with us in numerous stories from various eras of Superman.  Sharks and dolphins may have developed similar forms due to parallel evolution but they certainly cannot interbreed with each other just the same.

I maintain that this must be evidence of design for the Daxamite/Kryptonian species (or perhaps, subspecies).  That ability to interbreed is evidence that all such humanoids are subspecies of a larger species of humanity, depending on how one defines 'species'.  This is further supported by the strange super-powers they possess outside their native environments which are highly unlikely to evolve for an environment they've never experienced, and the incredible Daxamite coincidence of a lead vulnerability on a virtually lead-free planet.

Flame dragons having opposable thumbs is no more mysterious than raccoons having similar ones on Earth.  Worse comes to worst, we could suggest design here, but those darn 'coons tend to make me dismiss this as not that important.

The mere existence of Thought Beasts, not even mentioning their showing third person POV, is a glaring example of design.  In the fictional DCU, no way could such a bizarre creature naturally evolve since that darn screen seems to be more of a liability than an advantage.  I suppose if the creatures could deceive others with the screen, like Earth life uses mimicry, then it might somehow work.  But it's clear how the things are portrayed that they tend to display exactly what's on their minds.  Perhaps the third person POV is evidence that they might be partly telepathic, linking with others in their presence.  I see the Thought Beast as the DCU equivalent of the Babel Fish: Glaring evidence of someone designing them since they don't have a logical way to have evolved by themselves.
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llozymandias
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2005, 09:51:31 AM »

Then there is The planet Zoron.  The homeworld of Hyperman.  Plus how Oceania is too much like earth, for an alien planet in the same universe.  The fact that the different humanoid species of the DC Universe can interbreed.  Maybe they are all just different sub-species of one larger species of humanity, that was scattered a few million years ago.  Problem there is they should not be able to interbreed.  In 3 million or so years of being isolated from each other, those various sub-species should have evolved into separate species.  Also how about the DC humanoids from mars (& other planets smaller than earth) Shouldn't they be taller & thinner than earth humans?  That also points to design.  All those different humanoids could have evolved separately through a kind of artificial convergent evolution.
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John Martin, citizen of the omniverse.
Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2005, 12:59:50 PM »

Quote from: "llozymandias"
The fact that the different humanoid species of the DC Universe can interbreed.  Maybe they are all just different sub-species of one larger species of humanity, that was scattered a few million years ago.  Problem there is they should not be able to interbreed.  In 3 million or so years of being isolated from each other, those various sub-species should have evolved into separate species.  Also how about the DC humanoids from mars (& other planets smaller than earth) Shouldn't they be taller & thinner than earth humans?  That also points to design.  All those different humanoids could have evolved separately through a kind of artificial convergent evolution.

You have to wonder just how many "intelligent design" advocates there are within the DC Universe.  Smiley

My thinking on the breeding cosmology here is that:

1) Everyone is powerful somewhere and weak somewhere else.  There's a "sun" somewhere where us Terrans become "super", or some trick that we haven't discovered yet.  Perhaps the meta-gene?
2) Some nigh-powerful super-being (The Source?) sorted out all the humanoid races to where they are at their weakest.  Think of it like Conway's Game Of Life, writ large.
3) The idea is for all the races to overcome their weaknesses, or die trying (Krypton and Valeron exploded for a reason).  As they do so, they become more genetically compatible.  The goal (conceit?) is for everyone to evolve into "perfect" humanoids.  
4) Eventually, everyone interbreeds with everyone else, ultimately creating some sort of successor being, who ties the end to the beginning of time, and forks off another universe or whatever.  Or maybe there is never an end of time, and when Superman or the Flash go from the end of time to the beginning, they're going from one iteration of the universe to another.  No multiverse, but a "constantly" rebooting single universe.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2005, 03:43:48 PM »

Following these observations, is anyone uncomfortable with "intelligent design" explanations in comics?
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2005, 05:25:42 PM »

Quote from: "MatterEaterLad"
Following these observations, is anyone uncomfortable with "intelligent design" explanations in comics?


I am not comfortable with so called "intelligent design" in any form, LOL.

That said, we are talking comic books here folks, it's pure fantasy, and gods have been shown to exist in the DC universe, at least Greek gods Smiley

The theory doesn't work.
Earth-1 was shown to have no signs of advance ancient civilizations that could have build such advance space ships to spread their seed, millions of years ago. Remember that humans millions of years ago on Earth were very different than us and not as smart.

Environment seems to rather huge part on how life evolves, please note those tiny humans that we found.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4127713
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llozymandias
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2005, 06:11:05 PM »

In the real world "intelligent design" claims that the universe was specifically designed to make it compatible with life.  Looking over this thread again, i noticed Captain Kal's mention of that 1993 GL story.  He mentions that it claims there was a "great humanoid diaspora" 5 million years ago.  Untill i reread that i thought he said it was 3 million years ago.  If all these populations were isolated from each other for 5 million years, by now each one should be its own separate species.  Or on some planets two or more separate species.  In my scenario a group of OAns/Maltusians (they go off on their own before Krona's time) they explore the universe, they seed countless planets with life.  One of their goals is the creation of intelligent life.  Since they are humanoids they decide to "create" intelligent humanoids.  At each planet they seed, they leave an ai (artificial intelligence) to monitor the developement of life on the planet.  The ai decides which species to help evolve into an intelligent humanoid.  Over time it subtly controls that evolution, in order to enable "its" humanoid to interbreed with the humanoids on other planets.  Also it helps "guide" its humanoid on the path toward a technological society & civilization.


      Kryptonite (& its "isotopes", which i believe include zoronite) is a form of super-matter that doesn't become indestructible under a yellow star.  Super-matter turns into kryptonite under certain conditions.  One of those conditions is the heat & pressure at the core of a planet like krypton.  This is a slow process that takes billions of years to impact the planet.  However once enough of the core turns into kryptonite, it becomes unstable.  Which would explain why planets like krypton tend to explode.
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John Martin, citizen of the omniverse.
MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2005, 06:13:24 PM »

I guess my own preferences run toward the idea that all this intelligent design and early supreme beings is not scientific, so I don't need detailed science on the physics of this kind of universe...it can run at cross purposes to my mind...I still like some science fiction running through my stories, but the fantasy and good stories are more important...

Did dogs come to Krypton as well?
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