Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Resenting your alter ego's unheroic pose is much more associated with Batman. Alan Brennert argued in his Batman stories that Earth-2 Batman resents Bruce Wayne, that all his real friends know him as Batman and that he hates being trapped in the playboy identity where he has to deal with phonies and shallow people...and worse, pretend to be one of them!

My favorite scene in BATMAN BEGINS used this characterization. That's the one where he kicks his friends out of his birthday party. I loved that scene because there was a sense from Christian Bale's performance that he wasn't entirely pretending when he called them all moochers and phonies told them to get out! Bruce Wayne - fundamentally a person of substance, rejects outright the suggestion he take up Polo.

But there's an element of Superman resenting Clark Kent in a lot of his stories. Superman in his own private thoughts calls Clark Kent derogatory things, like "pansy Clark."

There are a lot of Superboy stories especially where he resents having to pretend to be an awkward, ignored youth - something certainly harder on a teenager than an adult.

One Elliot S! Maggin story guest-starring Green Arrow has Superman overreact because that slick giggolo Ollie Queen was making time with HIS girlfriend, Lois Lane, and as Clark he has to sit there and do nothing. "Every time some big ape puts the moves on Lois I have to pretend to be meek...and I'm tired of it!"

Does Superman dislike having to play the wimp? I'm sure it's frustrating sometimes. But I'm sure there are occasions where it's just lots of fun to mess with people. The irony of it can be appealing. In one Cary Bates story, Clark Kent is hired to transport a secret test plane. When he explains why he was chosen, he says, "who'd believe a wimp like Clark would be entrusted with such a mission?" And the Curt Swan/Murphy Anderson art has him crack the biggest smile, as if he's in on a joke we're not.

My first reaction when I saw the title of this thread was to wisecrack, "Uh, Julian, they're the same person!"

Does Superman resent Clark?  On the contrary, each loves that aspect of themselves that is superhero and schlub.

Clark finds millions of ways to use his powers while in his civilian clothes, just as Superman is not really enjoying life unless he is with his friends at the Planet, etc.  The little problems he experiences hiding his duo identity and making time for superheroics are what make life interesting and worth living.

I'm sure Superman resents having to play the wimp every now and then, and I'm also sure that this is one of the things that has contributed to the success of the character for so long. Having accepted that Clark has to act like this every once in a while, the reader is rewarded for his forbearance when he turns into Superman; that's been there from the very first story, when those thugs muscle in on Lois and Clark's dance. When Superman later roughs them up and upends their car, the sense of release is terrific. Superman has to resent (or at least, feel frustrated by) Clark every now and then in order for reader identification to work properly.

This is why I've always preferred the George Reeves portrayal of Clark Kent.....the wimpy element wasn't there....or to put it another way....If I had to choose, I wouldn't mind being the Reeves Kent, but i can't say the same for other depictions

Are any of the TV Clark Kents really wimps? 

To what extent does he resent his Superman identity?  How often do we see Superman say something that could be misinterpreted?  How does he deal with folks who pick apart his every word and gesture, the endless attempts by -everyone- to put a bug on him to track his movements, etc.  Superman would be the largest celebrity on the planet (and well beyond), but the only mainstream media that cares is the Daily Planet.  What about those investigative journalists from the world he saved?

Why would Superman resent something that he himself created?
He wants to act that way, he could had made Clark Kent act a little tougher if he really wanted to, but he didn't. So the answer is no, why would he? 

I resent a lot of things I created, at least sometimes.  I take the good with the bad, try to fix up what I can't tolerate, and go on.

He has full control over how Clark Kent acts. He could make Clark Kent act less wimpy if he wanted to.

I thought you said on another thread: "Superman is a fictional character; he doesn't do anything. "He" is just lines on paper. "   so he really has no more control than allowed by the writer  ;D

Seriously, though, in certain incarnations,  it may be more regret in establishing himself as being too extreme in his mild-manneredness

I've never read that, to my knowledge. Can you tell me which comic this is in, please?


No. I think the asking of this question betrays a lack of understanding of the two identities. Clark is Clark, and Superman is Kal-El's expression of his might, his super-power, his alien heritage, his world-shaking strength. Clark exists for a reason, and it's not as if Clark prevents Superman from being Superman; he doesn't. He's a different beast entirely.


Nope. Doesn't make sense. OK, so let's imagine it was actually Superman standing there with another man coming on to Lois. Would Superman walk over and smack the guy silly? No. He would mind his own business. Superman isn't a bully and he is not full of himself when it comes to women. Superman wouldn't smack down Lothario any more than Clark would.

I tend to go with Telle's opinions on the matter.


Definitely.


True.

The character is VERY intriguing. Clark can't win Lois. But Superman REFUSES to win her. He is happy with soppy worship (check the early stories, and even the later Silver Age ones). WHY?! Such a complex character. If Lois wanted Clark, he would have her. Why is Superman, from the very first comic, treating Lois (the woman he desires) this way?

This man doesn't resent Clark Kent. He IS Clark Kent.


A great comeback question. I personally feel that if Kal-El were forced to choose between Kent and Superman, he would choose Kent.


May I just add, if you will permit me, that Pa and Ma Kent also created Clark. He is their son. Their son is Clark Kent. Yes, there is an element of invention to Clark, but then, there's an element of invention to all of us in our daily lives and relationships. He's real. He's the son of Pa and Ma.


I disagree, because the alter ego is Superman; and, for some reason, that's the point some people are missing.

I retract my earlier statements --Superman can't resent anything.  "He" is just lines on paper.

 :)

I don't know if that's an accurate assessment of how Clark Kent came on the scene: as a conspicuously artificial creation of Superman he can take away at any time. Cary Bates argued that Superman and Clark Kent came on the scene so early their lives were intertwined...there's no separating one from the other.

A lot of Clark Kent was developed by others' perception of him - it would be understandable for Superman to feel "trapped" on occasion, having to imitate mannerisms that are clearly not his own: cowardliness, for instance.

Think of it like this: Clark Kent is nowhere around when danger strikes. People get it in their heads Clark Kent is a coward. So, Superman has to act cowardly so he can change unobserved.


Good point - there must be a reason that Superman made Clark the way he is. What makes Clark Kent so "real" in a sense is Superman's fundamental humility. Superman could have his secret identity be anyone, but he chooses to be an easily ignored schlub. And he no doubt relishes playing up Clark's fragility and his playing chicken so that no one would ever guess Kent is Superman.

BUT...there are occasions where Superman does feel conflicted about the Kent identity, where it can be frustrating instead of fun. I'm not saying Superman resents Kent all the time.


Okay, here's one occasion fresh in my mind: in SUPERBOY #184 (1972) which I was just talking about in the laser-surgery thread, Clark Kent throws himself overboard and thinks, "Exit namby-pamby Clark...and enter SUPERBOY!"

For one that you might be able to look up right now...I haven't checked this site's comics section in a while, but isn't there a Superboy story where he attempts to prove Clark Kent's masculinity with a boxing contest, and gets fed up with Kent being a milquetoast all the time?


That wasn't a theoretical example that popped into my head, but a paraphrase of an actual quote from Elliot Maggin's ACTION COMICS #445 (1974). Here's EXACTLY what Superman was thinking:

SUPERMAN (thinking): I'm sick and tired of having to act mild and meek as every gorilla in town tries to put the make on LOIS!"

SUPERMAN (thinking): And Oliver Queen has an obnoxious habit of attracting women the way flame attracts moths!

SUPERMAN (thinking): Ollie's supposed to be my FRIEND...and he should know BETTER!

Later, he, ah, "discourages" Ollie from taking the matter further.

When I say he created Clark Kent, what I mean is the wimpy Daily Planet version.
That version wasn't created until he left college and Smallville. Note, in his college stories, he doesn't act wimpy at all. The Superboy Clark Kent is not any more wimpy than any other small town kid, and some girls even like him! He acts the same around his parents as he does around his friends (well, minus the powers bit). It is only after he goes to Metropolis that he starts to act like a mild mannered wimp.

Then I will have to take you to task over your original quote, Julian. You misrepresented it. You used a different word and also I don't agree this is "derogatory". You changed the spirit of what was said. I think I have this comic.... You are seeing what Superboy means all wrong, I believe. There is no disgust there at all. I won't even try to explain the purpose of that quote, as I'm sure you can figure it out for yourself. But it sure ain't Superboy being derogatory about Clark.


You goose. ;)  I have that comic and know it well (although I'm not sure if your issue number is correct). I am saying I think that first quote is out of character. (If I'm remembering the exact scene correctly, it's Swan-Schaffenberger and takes place in the corridors of Galaxy.)