Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Reading what Dan DiDio is saying over at Superman Homepage, it would seem that Identity Crisis is one of those stories meant to "set the tone" for the DCU for years to come.

If ICs saturated in gratutious death, wanking on the idea of putting skeletons in the closets of great heroes, taking wacky Silver Age villans and turning them all into the same character as the Joker from Killing Joke is the tone for the new DCU then it looks like the Iron Age hasn't gone anywhere. It's only going to get worse.

DC is clueless and I don't see that changing anytime soon, if ever.  I don't support any current books of theirs and the only thing that keeps me from wishing they'd simply shut down is the Archives and various reprints.  If the likes of IC is what keeps them in business, then I hope the suckers keep lining up for more.  Just keep DC solvent long enough to crank out a couple more Man of Tomorrow Archives!

Oh, and the figures!  DC makes nice toys.  Well, except that they're often a bit limited in poseability.  How am I going to twist my Sue Dibney figure into that 6-inch fridge if she's only got 4 points of articulation?

This is a very serious problem! :D

(I'm assuming that's how they killed the Dibny character in Identity Crisis --it is sad that I even know she was killed --I must have absorbed this info through osmosis.)

Not QUITE, Telle -- in fact the facts surrounding Sue Dibny's murder is still somewhat hazy.  It's very possible the REAL murderer is still at large and will play a role in a future major crossover.

The "fridge" reference was to Gail Simone's "Women in Refrigerators" site, which chronicles the numerous ways  superheroines and female supporting characters have been abused, tortured and killed in comic books.  The name stems from Green Lantern Kyle Rayner's girlfriend Alexandra DeWitt, who was murdered by Major Force and stuffed in said kitchen appliance.  Major Force also did the same to Kyle's mother (using the oven this time) but apparently dialogue was hastilly changed in a following issue explaining that Kyle only saw a mannequin head!  Yeah, right!  DC just got cold feet by outraged fans who finally had enough of senseless slaughter.

The Women in Refrigerators list can be found at http://www.the-pantheon.net/wir/ though it desperately needs an update.  However, Gail's probably too busy right now -- she's done her part to counter the "WIR" trend by aggressively revitalizing female characters in her "Birds of Prey" book, as recent appearances by near-forgotten heroines Vixen and Katana confirm.  And if she wasn't currently piloting Oracle's flying headquarters, Lady Blackhawk would have probably bought the farm.

Maybe the D in DC stands for Death now.

That website is depressing.

Amen to that. There are ways to make comics all-ages accessible that do not involve chopping people to bits, profanity, or blatant sexist attitudes. I don't mind a little spin thrown toward the adults in the audience, but superhero comics should primarily be the realm of the young and the young at heart. Does that mean superhero comics have to become--shudder--Dragonball Z or Teen Titans? No, but they shouldn't have to compromise their inherent moral decency and simplicity by having Jerry Bruckheimer-esque tactics or Joel Schulmaker parody or Seven-esque grimness shoved down their collective throat.

 Some people get it. Robert Kirkman, Mark Waid, Alan Moore, Elliot S. Magin. . .but for the most part I look at this new breed of comics writers and shake my head. In the late '80s it was all about out-grimming Watchmen and Dark Knight. Now it seems to be out-gruesoming Warren Ellis and Mark Millar. Hey, I liked the Authority as much as the next red-blooded testosterone fan who enjoyed the what if of superheroes actually functioning in the real world, and it was an over the top popcorn movie writ large. But that's a nice little piece of junk food, a cheeseburger, a guilty pleasure. It's not what I want to eat 24/7, y'know?

 Ah well, I suppose it's what the kids are into, and despite the fond memories we may have of Superman and the Justice League, they're ultimately corporate properties. Which means that whatever Warner wants to do, they can do it. Bad enough I had to watch Kurt Busiek's JLA run feature Superman killing upwards of 300 people (mind you, it was the Crime Syndicate's Ultraman in Superman's uniform), but even with the ruse I cringed at the thought that, given 10 years or so, this might just become the regular fare. The whole Grim 'n Gritty Superman was handled much better in the recent Teen Titans issues, with Kon-El and Tim Drake the World's Finest of a post-Identity Crisis DCU. I think Geoff Johns is on the same page too. Too much grim is what's killing comics. Pander to the graying of the audience and superhero comics will die. Pander too much to the youth. . .well, you can't really. How can Superman hope to compete with Yu-Gi-Oh? Hm. . .provide the younger generation with complimentary copies of Superman: The Animated Series and hope they make a wise choice in role models maybe?

 Dangit. :(

 -Def.

When reading about the All Star line I got a slight spark of hope but like so many things with DC it's *always* six on one hand and half a dozen on the other.

For Superman you got Grant Morrison as the writer...but Frank Quietly is the artist.

For Batman you got Jim Lee as the artist....but Frank Miller is the writer.

The you've got the animated titles which DC has proven over the years they could not care less about.

Then you have the mainline. Or as I like to call it "Earth-D" for death.

I don't know much about Frank Quietly, so I looked him up with Google, and I found some Superman pics:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1563896311.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1563895757.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

Kuuga, that's slanderous!   Poor Earth-D, home of the multi-ethnic Justice Alliance of America was NOTHING like the present mainstream DCU.  :wink:  

The end of Earth-D was chronicled long after the Crisis in "Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths" (February 1999), written by Marv Wolfman.  Chronologically, this episode should be between "Crisis on Infinite Earths" #4 and #5.  A summary of this relatively hard-to-find issue is at http://www.io.com/~woodward/chroma/cr4_5.html

A good list of alternate Earths can be found at http://www.io.com/~woodward/chroma/atlas.html (http://www.io.com/~woodward/chroma/atlas.html).  The current DCU is labeled "Earth-0", as in post Zero Hour.  I'm sure we can also associate the "Zero" with other attributes...   :wink:

Oh wow! Okay, my apologies then to Earth-D.

Yeah, I think Earth-0 is quite apt on many levels.  :wink:

Thanks dto.  I'm familiar with that site but had no idea what the appliance reference was there for.  Glad to hear that DC has at least one woman writing a superhero book who is not with the program, so to speak.  Although I understand Gilbert Hernandez' run on the book wasn't too bad.

And that Earth Zero idea is just hilarious.  Talk about no clue.

Just saw this article about Korean comics being popular in the US:



That about sums things up here. :D

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200502/03/200502032113233879900091009101.html

Are they saying they lack "sensitivity" *because* they deal with Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man or lack it in dealing with Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man?

My reading of the article is simply that the American stories are more or less affect-less or emotionless when compared to the wide variety of Korean (and Japanese) comics for kids.  Not that I agree 100% as it seems that most U.S. superhero comics of the last 25 years are full of melodrama and teenage angst (as well as violence and severe morality).

I see. I agree that there is a definate differnce in the way that Asian cultures often approach storytelling vs what we do in the west.  I think very often, western stuff is just really very dry out of fear of being cheesy or whatever.

So often I find the Asian style very refreshing.  It's much less about watching a sequence of events and more about feeling an experience.  That's why in many anime and tokusatsu (live action special effects shows) the physics the world setting works on are very loose or highly stylized.  Boiling it down to logic and so-called "realism" is not the point.

Right now my DC purchases are limited to Johns' Green Lantern, Busiek's JLA, and Superman & Batman. The last one's on the chopping block due to good art wasted on bad stories, and if the first two start becoming angsty pitch-black drek like Meltzer's trash and the rest of the DC line, I'm dropping them in a heartbeat. The only stuff I know I'll be picking up in the long-term for certain is All-Stars Superman and some reprints.

As for DC Direct, I like some of their action figures and statues. The comics? Getting worse all the time.

EDIT: By the way, regarding Gail Simone...if her run on Action is as bad as the last several years of Superman have been and if she goes for the whole ID thing, too, I will be very put out, considering how vocal she seems to be about DC's penchant for killing every woman they get their hands on. I'm still amazed Zatanna was spared a throat-slitting in the 11th hour in ID....

I recommend Mark Waid's new LSH title.

It's not just DC that's eating it's own legacy in the name of a self-destructive quick buck.  Look what DC's parent company, WB, is doing to the iconic Bugs Bunny for its new cartoons:

(http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/bugs-old-new.jpg)

This sort of thing is just incredibly stupid and short sighted.  Because the more they keep doing this, the less interest people have in the characters and the less money they make.  As one article said, "If Warner Bros. wants to revive their vintage characters, they'd be better served by creating better scripts and scenarios for them, always the core of the original cartoons' success, than by making the sorts of superficial, ill-conceived changes that threaten to make their franchise players generic and forgettable."

Actually, the characters in Loonatics are supposed to be descendants of the classic characters. Nevertheless, you're right. It's stupid. And it's failing. I've heard stories about kids looking at these characters and going "Is that an evil version of Bugs Bunny?"

As for WB and "re-imaginings," check out what very nearly happened to the Superman movie before Bryan Singer came along:
http://invisionfree.com/forums/No_Cookie_for_You/index.php?showtopic=577

Their plans for Wonder Woman, Gaiman's Sandman, and Green Lantern were just as bad.

Thanks for the explanation about "Loonatics", King.  For a moment I thought someone had merged Bugs with Wile E. Coyote!   :shock:

I just glanced through your Superman movie posting at http://invisionfree.com/forums/No_Cookie_for_You/index.php?showtopic=577, but I'll have to read it again more carefully after I recover from the initial horror.  What Hollywood planned for poor Supes was even WORSE than the actual indignities DC inflicted on him during the "Iron Age".  Thank Rao these projects were cancelled!

It's only going to get worse.  Apparently IC just wasn't enough, now theres this DC Countdown thing and even Jack Kirbys OMAC is getting messed with.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28181

I'm expecting something to the tune of Brother Eye and evil goverment group controled all your comics as you knew them and once they are gone the battles will now be "real".

I've known about Countdown. That's supposed to be the book that sets off the IC-ing of the entire DCU. (And judging from the preview art, there's going to be another death; speculation has it that either Nightwing or Blue Beetle may bite it.)

DC loves to make bad comics, don't they? :roll:

I think that's an over generalization.

Birthright was fantastic, All-Star is very exicting, Legion is a lot of fun, and I'm sure there are  other good ones too, I just don't follow them because they're not Superman related so I don't know what they are.  I've heard good things about the new GL, but I can't say for myself.

And with the wonderful news that the new Superman movie is going to be in the established Christopher Reeve movie continuity, and that the beautiful Noel Neill is going to have a role, it sure looks like there are people involved with this movie who very much know what they are doing!

GL under Johns is fantastic, but it's more of an exception, not the rule. Trinity was flawless, but DC swept it under the rug in a heartbeat. Ditto for Batman: Child of Dreams, which walks all over anything Frank Miller's ever done to the character. New Frontier was never on the radar to begin with. And Birthright was practically left to the wolves. DC, as a rule of thumb, puts its energies behind the same stupid events and morbidly bad ideas that this board regularly rips on (and that many readers have openly criticized). Stuff like GL is a fluke these days. And assuming All-Stars Superman's a hit, it'll be another one. Whenever DC actually does something of quality, they usually try to ignore it or disavow it while pimping the same stuff nobody likes over and over again.



I agree that so far Superman Returns is doing pretty much everything right, but you'd be amazed by how much hatred has been levied at the film by those who either (a) wanted a Byrne-flavored origin rehash starring the Smallville cast, (b) a full-on Smallville movie, or (c) the JJ Abrams script where Krypton didn't explode and Luthor was Kryptonian. There's even been lobbying against Noel Neill being in the movie because she played Elinore Lane in the 1978 movie. The bashing against this movie for selfish reasons is pretty off-the-scale.

I forgot to mention Superman/Batman.  Another fun and exciting book.

They apparently just love death. That's like all they freakin know.  Death and rape. It's their answer for everything wether it's doing it to a character literally in a storyline or doing it to the overall charm and wonder of the mythology and DC tradition.


BTW, King I agree with you on Trinity. That was fun. It leans a little "adult" in a couple places but other than that I liked it alot, especially Wagners approach to Superman.




I like Superman/Batman at least when Ed is on the art.  Jeph Loeb I tend to either really love what he's doing or be left kind of bewildered by it. I think in alot of ways he's got the right idea, he just zigs when he should zag.

Superman & Batman has top-rate artists, but the writing is wildly uneven. Jeph Loeb hasn't been on his game since before "Our Worlds at War," and it's left McGuinness, Pacheco, and Turner at a disadvantage. Luthor's kryptonite steroid addiction came way out of left field, and I still have no idea what the insane old Superman what going on about (the "Absolute Power" arc hasn't answered any questions). And what, pray tell, was the latest Supergirl doing in a huge kryptonite meteor in the first place?

I freely admit that the only reason I've been buying this book is for the art. But once McGuinness is gone for good, I'm outta there unless there's a major improvement in the writing.

Umm, I could be wrong here, but I think that McG has been off the book for a while.

I like Loeb's writing.  I think that his concepts are brilliant, but I do grant you that his execution and the details can be weak and inconsistent.  But over the last year or so, I think his stories have gotten a lot tighter.  In my book, that counts as improvement.

I do agree that Loeb is getting better.  And he didn't start out bad, just sort of ... I dunno, wimpy.  I'm not sure what the word is that applies to the negative quality of Loeb's writing, I just know that it's there.  He's getting better, though.

The Iron Age doesn't strike me as entirely negative.  The bad things that happened in Identity Crisis did not a bad story make.  The few issues I've read of it so far were pretty good, actually.  I feel bad for Sue, I really liked that character.  But that's how you're supposed to feel.

Well The current Superman titles are pretty awful. I find the Ruin plot in adventures extremely annoying. Post crisis Kal always retained his powers under a red sun until he exausted his "charge". Now so Ruin could humiliate him A puny set of overheads saps him of all power.The Identity Crisis tie in was horrible. the heroes I knew would never have gone these places, done these things or acted like this.
       I desperately want buy Superman  books but I simply can't tolerate this drek. I'll try the Byrne/Simone Superman but nothing else but the all star unless you guys give me the go. For all the later problems MOS was a 1000 times better than ANY of the current titles in my opinion.
      DC is throwing away guarented sales from me at least with both hands. ( Sorry for the rant but I just read these stories and am pretty worked up.)

Have you read Trinity, For All Seasons, The Superman/Madman Hullabaloo!, Peace on Earth, Kingdom Come, New Frontier, the Nail duology, and Birthright? If not, those stories may be just what you're looking for.

If you have read them, then I'd suggest holding out for All-Stars Superman. The regular DCU stuff for the most part ain't worth it.

He's doing the next story arc following "Absolute Power."

Yes I've read most of those and really enjoyed them. Birthright wasn't my cup of tea but  I've just ordered Trinity  and am eagerly waiting its arrival. I admit ( don't hit me) I prefer MOS to Birthright.  I really liked the Nail duology especially. I'll try to find  New frontier and Peace on Earth. I enjoyed Kingdom Come but felt it fell short of it's hype.  Thanks for the suggestions.

I need to read this.. :D

You know, I tried to go back and read Crisis on Infinite Earths. It occured to me that as a kid what I'd  originally responded to about it had nothing to do with killing off everything and cleaning up continuity.  

What made it was the idea of DCs entire mythology in one story and all of them fighting together as heroes to save the universes and all of it served up with wonderful art by George Perez.

Kinda made me wonder what'd have been like if they'd used it to show people just how cool DC was on it's own without having to become destroy everything and become Marvel.  

Funny that Marv Wolfman said that he hadn't taken a look at the story in several years because of all the politics he ran into with other editors who didn't realize quote "that times are changing".

Yet, isn't that what's happening now? Only 1986 is the standard instead of 1956 or 66?

Yeah Marv, times are changing and sales are sagging and even now you guys are still resorting to gore and death for the sake of a temporary sales spike.

Wanna do something radical, bold and different? Make comics that both kids and adults can enjoy. Make stories where the good guys actually win.
 You guys can kill, rape and maime and overanalyze the genre without blinking an eye. But fun, adventure, action, and creating dreams, that'd be work wouldn't it?

I bought it in the original hardcover edition. Money very well spent, I think. I couldn't put it down for weeks after I'd bought it. Even now when I need a Batman fix, it's one of the first things I grab (either that or the Archives editions).



You aren't the only one who's noticed that. Many folks at the DC MBs have been commenting on DC being stuck in a '90s rut. Sometimes this brings out the zombies who want DC to either stay in the "Dark Age" because that's only the style of comics they feel are acceptable reading or who want DC to get darker and bleaker because the mere existence of Krypto, Supergirl, and Hal Jordan somehow equates to a full-blown return of the Silver Age...which of course, the "Dark Age" fanatics hate on principle. But for the most part, even the guys at the DC site can't figure out why the company insists on staying in a rut. There's been a lot of complaints about it.

And if it's of any consolation, Identity Crisis is not the instant classic DC wants believe it is. Fan reaction was split almost 50/50, with a lot of anger being directed at it. Wizard even touched on it in a sidebar article last month.



In traditional Internet parlance, I'd say your comment has left DC...
(http://img158.exs.cx/img158/2611/superowned0hm.jpg)

Here here!

And make the darn books affordable $2.50 is still a lot of cash to kids.

And what's with splitting a series arc now into 2 volumes of Graphic Novel i.e.Hush?  Are those Graphic Novellas?!

Not to mention adults with bills to pay!  :evil:

2.50 is alot of cash to anyone of any age who is paying the equivalent to going to see 10 minutes of a movie and being told to come back next month to view the next 10 minutes.

The manga digests really have the right idea because however you might feel about manga, people get their moneys worth out of those. You get a nice huge chunk of story and art yet still leaving you eagerly awaiting the next installment.






Hahaha! Lovely peice of art there. I doubt DC really cares what I think but thank you. I'm honored.

Over on the DC MBs, there was a thread about which Superman book should be axed in order to simplify the line, and it was suggested that the whole line should just be pared down to one Superman book. (My mother, having seen me buying multiple Superman titles a month as a kid, feels exactly the same way.) Maybe DC should do that with Superman, converting it into digest format a la Shonen Jump as using that to keep the comics accessible?

Of course, you'd need first-rate creative talent to pull it off, and while DC's gotten into the habit of snagging top artists, they're pretty slow on the uptake when it comes to the writing end of things. You'd almost have to go for the big-gun creators to make this work.

It'll be ridiculous if they do that with the Azzarello/Lee For Tomorrow arc, since it looks like nothing of consequence is going to happen until the last issue or two. I wonder what the DC promotional blurb for Volume 1 would say?

"Not a darn thing happens! Superman spends all his time brooding and talking to a priest, all while sporting a facial expression that makes him look like the Mexican food he had for lunch is talking back to him! If you believe this book is worth twenty bucks (thirty-five in Canada) then we've got some beachfront property in Nebraska to sell you!"

Actually, they are splitting it into two volumes. The first ships in May.

Well, for any of you who may have read DC Countdown no.1 I think it's pretty safe to say the Iron Age is still going strong and Deathdealer Comics won't be changing direction anytime soon.

DC has tried the anthology route before.  Disastrously with the Action title in the 80s-90s and awesomely with Superman Family in the 70s (not to mention the 80 page giants!).  But Shonen is the way of the immediate future.

Splitting a story arc from a serialized adventure/superhero comic (short enough, compared to some "real" graphic novels and manga) into two separate volumes is insipid and ammounts to nothing more than a cash grab for Warner/DC.

Nah, We are way past the Iron Age and well into the Dark Age of comics.

For DC and Marvel? Yes

Other publishers?  Vary wildly.

Heroic Publishing?  I can do without the lesbian subtext in Flare, but the stories are enjoyable.  Alter Ego was quite a ride and had a Golden Age/Bronze Age feel

Dark Horse?  Go Girl! has the sense of fun that was part of the Silver and Golden age of comics.  Of couse Dark Horse also publishes one of the most blody translated manga.  A samurai has to kill 10,000 evil men before he is allowed to die.

Image?  Well, nevermind.  Started in Dark Age and went Sulpher and Brimstone Age  :lol:

If you search among the Indy titles, you'll find comics that should appeal to you

You may be right.  DC Comics. Where Legends Die.

Ah yes, the Blue Ribbon Digests!  Where I learned huge hunks of my DC lore --and it all began with the horrible Teen Titans digest, with Carmine Infantino aping my then-hero George Perez to ill effect.  I love the Silver Age and Flash and Nova Infantino (and his Golden Age Black Canary is awesome!) but he was no George Perez.  But that volume got me started and I still pick the digests when I see them.

To be fair, I mildly enjoyed both Sea Guy and New Frontier from DC this year (although I read loaned copies :oops: ).  And of course, the Bizarro volumes are great!

The best superhero comic book of the last 5 years is Goody Good Comics # 1.

One of my favourite mainstream superhero comics of the last few years was World's Funnest Comics by Evan Dorkin and a host of great cartoonists --the book starred Mr. Mxylptlk and Bat-Mite running rampabt throught the DC multiverse --with plenty of commentary on the crappy nature of new DC comics.  Dorkin also writes for kids TV and comedy and puts out a hilarious comic called Dork!

Dorkin's latest post on his blog about the new DC Crisis-type miniseries is spot on the money about why DC/Warner comics are horrible.

**Warning: strong language!**

http://www.livejournal.com/users/evandorkin/55351.html?thread=1099063#t1099063

Iron age over? I guess that remains to be seen, for Superman, at least.

There are two additions to the Superman mythos during the Iron Age that are worth keeping, though (and Gangbuster is not one of them, despite my username.) First, there is Steel. John Henry Irons, the man worthy to become Superman...clearly his character was inspired by the introduction to Lowther's 1942 novel. And then there is Bibbo, a bum who wins the lotto and uses the money to help people out, inspired by Superman.

I think Superman is improving. While the Death storyline wasn't great in the comics, the novel version is. We have Birthright, and the Superman/Batman comic written by Loeb, who knows Superman. There is a new Kara Zor-El Supergirl series coming this summer, Bizarro  #1 is back with hilarious comic collections, (Bizarro Comics and Bizarro World) and Krypto is going to be used more, now that he has his own cartoon show.

Then again, Byrne is returning to Action Comics. But as long as you're careful about which comics you buy, all is well. Can't say the same about the DC Universe as a whole. Will the upcoming Crisis 2 restore the DCU, or will it reboot more characters? Not sure, but I'm reading it anyway until I find out.  I don't remember a Rann/Thanagar war ever happening before.

Well the list of earths is incomplete. Here is a list of the post-Crisis earths based on information from spark...@mindspring.com (Steve Parker) from Usenet:

Earth-Sigma: The very short lived merged earth that existed Crisis #11 & 12, the few tie up loose end issues after Crisis, and the Legion of SuperHeroes until about 1989. If Superman or the LSH remembers Kara El dying fighting the Anti-Monitor, Lady Quark comes from another reality rather than another planet, or people who are stated as dying during Crisis are alive at the end of issue #12 or issue immedately after then you are dealing with Earth-Sigma.


Earth-AC (Earth After-Crisis): Superman and a Kryptonian artifact called
the Eradicator are the last survivors of Krypton which was a bleak sterile
place. The Flash is Wally West and taps into something called the Speed Force and there are dozens of other speedsters (including the original Flash with the Mercury-like bowl on his head) Guy Gardner is running round with Sinestro's ring and Hal had a fake Green Lantern ring he was tricked into taking from some guy named Lord Malvolio (Action #632-#635) which may or may have not called him to go nuts and kill the GLC. The Justice Society originally never had Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman as members. Anytime Hawkman or the Legion of Superheroes is mentioned, people get headaches.

Earth-ZH (Earth Zero Hour): The stillborn earth related on the back of Zero Hour #0. Is there supposed to be only one timeline but Armageddon 2001 (which required alternate timelines to work) and the Supergirl of the Time Trapper's artificial alternate timeline still exist/happened? Is the current Hawkman a Native American? Does the LSA now have Wonder Woman's time traveling mother as a member? Do many time travel stories now make no sense what so ever? Welcome to Earth-ZH.

Earth-Hypertime (1999-current): Is Kingdom Come and every other Elsewords part of the DU multiverse? Do the Superman titles have absolutely no continuity with each other or the rest of the DCU? Does Superman have both Matrix and a cousin called Kara-Zor-El who both answer to the name Supergirl? Does trying to make sense of about any character's history give you headaches? Welcome to the current mess known as Earth-Hypertime. And we warned you this would happen.

The AGES of Comics from  Mike's Amazing World of DC :

The Golden Age (1935-1947): An era dominated by super-hero anthology titles and World War II. Unofficially begins with the first DC comic New Fun Comics #1 (2/35). Officially begins with Action Comics #1 (6/38) - The 1st appearance of Superman. Ends with the gradual phase out of the super-hero beginning with the cancellation of All-Flash (12/47). End also coincides with the cancellation of DC's first title More Fun Comics (11/47).

The Atom Age (1948-1955): An era in which the dominance of the super-hero declined. DC launched new titles from a variety of genres. Era begins with the first DC crime comic Gang Busters #1 (12/47) and first western, Western Comics #1 (1/48). Other genres represented include: romance with Girls' Love Stories #1 (8/49), science-fiction with Strange Adventures #1 (8/50), and war with Our Army at War #1 (8/52). Era ends with the reemergence of the super-hero, beginning with Flash in Showcase #4 (9/56).

The Silver Age (1956-1965): An era in which the super-hero returned to prominance. Era officially begins with the reintroduction of the Flash in Showcase #4 (9/56). Other key events include the revivals of: Green Lantern in Showcase #22 (9/59), Hawkman in Brave and the Bold #34 (2/61), the Atom in Showcase #34 (9/61), and the introduction of the Justice League in Brave and the Bold #28 (2/60). Era continues into the Late Silver Age.

The Late Silver Age (1965-1970): Continuation of the Silver Age. Late period has fewer revivals and is marked by increase experimentation with many short-lived titles. Period begins with start of the Teen Titans title (1/66). Other key events include the start of the Go-Go checks (2/66), Joe Orlando's role as creative director, and the price increase from 12¢ to 15¢. Era officially ends with Jack Kirby's return to DC (10/70).

The Early Bronze Age (1970-1975): Era noted for Jack Kirby's return to DC, beginning with Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #133 (9/70). Kirby titles dominate DC's new titles including: Forever People (2/71), New Gods (2/71), Mr. Miracle (3/71), Demon (8/72), Kamandi (10/72), Boy Commandos (9/73), Black Magic (10/73), Sandman (Win/74), and Omac (9/74). Other key events include: Batman's return to darkness beginning with Detective Comics #395 (1/70), the introduction of Ra's Al Ghul in Batman #232 (6/71), and the Adams/O'Neil "relevance" period in Green Lantern beginning with #76 (4/70). Early period officially ends with the last 100-Page Super Spectacular (3/75). Era continues in the Bronze Age.

The Bronze Age (1975-1978): Continuation of the Early Bronze Age. This period is categorized by the introduction of many short-lived titles and "family" giants. Period officially begins with the conversion from 100-Page to 68-page giants (4/75) and the launch of many new titles: Secrets of Haunted House, Beowulf, First Issue Special, and Richard Dragon Kung Fu Fighter (all 4/75); plus Tales of Ghost Castle, Joker, Tor, Claw the Unconquered, Justice, Inc., and DC Special's return (all 5/75). Era officially ends with the DC Implosion (11/78).

The Early Iron Age (1979-1986): Period characterized by DC's recovery from the DC Implosion (11/78) and birth of the direct market. Key events include: the first DC mini-series World of Krypton (7/79), the first digest Best of DC Digest (9/79), the first direct market titles Madame Xanadu (81) and Camelot 3000 (12/82), the Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans (11/80), Moore's Swamp Thing (1/84) & Watchmen (9/86), Crisis on Infinite Earths (4/85), and Miller's Dark Knight (86). Early period officially ends with Earth-1 Superman continuity in Action #583 (9/86). Era continues in the Iron Age.

The Iron Age (1986-1988): Era continues from the Early Iron Age. This period characterized by the relaunching of key DC characters beginning with Man of Steel #1 (10/86). Other relauches include Wonder Woman (2/87), the Justice League (5/87), and Flash (6/87). Period ends with the death of Robin in Batman #428 (12/88). Era continues in the Late Iron Age.

The Late Iron Age (1989-1991): Era continues from the Iron Age. Late period begins with the launch of Sandman #1 (1/89) which gives birth to a line of titles that become Vertigo. Other key events include the revamping of Hawkman in Hawkworld (89) and Green Lantern in Emerald Dawn (12/89). Era ends with Armageddon 2001 (5/91).

The Early Dark Age (1991-1992): Era categorized by the birth and overuse of cover variants and gimmicks. Begins with Armageddon 2001 #1 (5/91). Other key events include "Silver Ink" printings of Armageddon annuals (5/91-10/91), holograms on the Robin II mini-series (12/91), the gem cover on Eclipso:The Darkness Within #1 (7/92), and multiple covers/stories on Team Titans #1 (9/92). Era continues into the Dark Age.

The Dark Age (1992-1994): Era continues from the Early Dark Age. Era defined by the darkening of the super-hero, the replacement of DC's flagship characters, and the dominance of the anti-hero. Begins with Batman:Sword of Azrael #1 (10/92). Other key events include: the Death of Superman in Superman #75 (1/93), Batman being replaced by Azrael during Knightfall, and the murder of the Green Lantern Corps by Hal Jordan in Green Lantern #48-50. Era continues into the Late Dark Age.

My usual label re: Ages consist of:

Golden Age: (1938-1951) Starts with the first issue of Action Comics in '38, and ending with the cancellation of "All Star Comics" (the last appearance of the JSA).

Interim period/"post-Golden Age" (1951-1956): not sure what else to call this period ("in flux" as this site calls it might work, too). Basically the comics that fall between the JSA's cancellation and the start of the Silver Age proper (see below); stuff like the EC horror comics would fit in this era.

Silver Age: (1956-c. 1970) Starts with "Showcase" #4 and the Flash, ends circa 1970 for various factors: Kirby moving to DC from Marvel, Mort Weisinger retiring, and the Green Lantern/Green Arrow miniseries.

Bronze Age: (c. 1970 - 1986) Starts with the Silver Age elements listed above (or the Superman makeover of the early 70's), and ends with "Crisis On Infinite Earths" in '85-'86.

Modern Age: (1986 - present) Starts with Superman's reboot / "The Dark Knight Returns", and still ongoing today. Suppose if one wants to split it into "early" and "current" eras, the dividing line for that might be the current JLA comic's debut (or whenever the current "Silver Age-redux" nostalgia trend started).

It personally think that one must realize that ages fade into each other. Even in Greek mythology it is implied that the Golden age slowly gave way to the Siver and so so forth. The Bronze Age origianlly came from the modern horror comic revival what started in the mid to late 1960's and went on until fading in the late 1970's early 1980's. Some comic fan argue that the Silver age didn't really kick off until Fantastic Four #1 in 1961. My own ages are as follows:

Gold 1938 - c1948 (Action #1 to a greater public interest in Western Books) In 1948 the public seem to shift its interest from Superhero books to Westerns. By 1951 the number of Superheroes (both characters and books) had dropped substantially effectively ending the Golden Age.
 
 _Seduction of the Innocent_ (1954)
 
Silver 1956/1961 (Showcase #4/Fantastic Four) - c1970

Bronze ('Modern' Horror stories) c1965 - c1982
 Didn't really effect Superhero books until c1970 when comics stared to
 deal with more serious subjects
 (Green Lantern/Green Arrow #76 ; SpiderMan #95-96)

'Our' Modern (Iron) Age 1984-present

Yes there are gaps but we have since found out that comic books go back as far as The Adventures of Obadiah Oldbuck in 1837 so the traditional ages don't really fit anyhow. Comic books as a mass media item show up in 1897 with The Yellow Kid in McFadden's Flats so there are ages *before* Golden but what to call them has been a little on the fuzzy side.

The real winner was José Delgado, but Bibbo found his lotto ticket! Or am I wrong?

No, you're right. This happened sometime in 1991, although I can't point you to the exact comic...

Joes Delgado?  Didnt he draw Jimmy Olsen for awhile? :roll:

It should've been happened during the "Time and time again" saga. Later I'll see it!

Here is my categorization of Superman history, that I posted on  another foum.  My bias is pretty clear, I think...  :P

"DC basically makes some big changes to Superman every 15 years or so. Here are the different periods of Superman comics so far, to help you if you buy a lot of back issues, etc:

1938-1956- The Golden Age

The first Superman stories by Siegel and Shuster were published during this time, as well as the Superman Radio Show, newspaper comics, Max Fleischer cartoons, and Adventures of Superman TV show. The Golden Age ended between 1956 and 60, when the Flash (Barry Allen) met the original Flash, and it was revealed that all of the original superheroes from the 30s and 40s were still alive, living on "Earth-2," including the original Flash, Green Lantern, and Superman.

1956-1970- The Silver Age

The Justice League from Earth 1 and the Justice Society from Earth 2 teamed up often, and there were 2 different Supermen. The first was the original from 1938, who worked at the Daily Star and eventually married Lois Lane. The second (main Superman) was Superboy during his teenage and college years, and grew into earth's greatest hero. The Legion of Superheroes was a super-team from the future that started as a Superboy fan club. Mort Weisenger was the Superman editor during most of this time, and brought in characters like Mxyzptlk and the Bizarro World. Silver Age Superman stories that you might buy include the 3 volumes of "Crisis on Multiple Earths," "Superman in the 60s," "Tales of the Bizarro World," and the "Man of Tomorrow Archives."

1970- 1986- The Bronze Age

Began with Superman #233. A lab experiment turned all the kryptonite on earth into harmless lead. Clark Kent took a job at a TV station, WGBS, and characters like Morgan Edge and Steve LOMBARD (not Jobs) were introduced into the Superman continuity. Frequent teamups between Superboy (young clark kent) and the Legion of Superheroes. Ended with Crisis on Infinite Earths.

1985/6- around 1996- the Iron Age

Everything related to Supeman died, plus an extra helping of death. In Crisis on Infinite Earths, released for DC's 50th anniversary, Supergirl and Lori Lemaris were killed, while the original Superman, Superboy, and Lois were eliminated. John Byrne's famous miniseries Man of Steel relaunched Superman for a new generation. Superboy was not included in the origin (a fact that Byrne later regretted) and Superman was once again the only survivor of Krypton...no Krypto, no Supergirl, no Kandor. Legion of Superheroes was left without an origin and detached from "the Superman family" since Superboy had never existed. Superman was killed by Doomsday in 1992. He was resurrected the next year, but not before Coast City, home of Hal Jordan the Green Lantern was destroyed by one of his enemies and everyone in it killed. (Hal Jordan then went crazy and killed the Guardians of the Universe, and then became the villian Parallax. He died saving earth when he took a break from his newfound villiany.) Cat Grant's son Adam was killed. Jonathan Kent sort-of died from a heart attack once, but after he lived one of Clark's childhood friends from Smallvile tried to kill all of his relatives; thus, Clark Kent "died." Finally the entire City of Metropolis was blown up in Action Comics #700.

1996-Present- Silver Age Redux

Kingdom Come was published, a critique of the Iron Age which began a trend toward bringing Silver Age elements back. Technology made by Brainiac was used to restore Metropolis, forming it into the "City of Tomorrow." The Silver Age JLA lineup was brought back, Krypto returned after an unpublished story by Elliot Maggin made him popular again. Kara, the original Supergirl, returned (twice, but that's complicated.) Bizarro is back, the JSA is back, Hal Jordan the Green Lantern is back. Lex became President of the United States and Pete Ross married Lana (marriage is now on the rocks) and was chosen as vice-President. Superman/Batman teamups returned, in the form of the Superman/Batman monthly comic book. Superman:Birthright is the official Superman origin of this period."

Ummm... I guess I must have missed those isues...

Doh!

I meant Steve Lombard (where did Jobs come from?) Wait...Steve Jobs is the APPLE guy!  :shock:

And Cat Grant didn't work at WGBS until much later....LOL! I really need to get some sleep every now and then.

Steve Jobs, really....