Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Over at the DC message board, mazingman728 posted an advance copy synopsis of IC # 7.



 











spoilers








The issue starts of right where #6 left off with the heroes gathered around Superboy. The heroes get word via Green Lantern’s (Hal) ring that the villains are attacking Metropolis because if they can take out Superman’s city then they can take over the world. During the fight Judo Master gets his back broken by Bane and Black Adam rips Amazo’s head off. Just as Doomsday is about to go after Arsenal Superman and Kal-L show up and take the fight to him, along with the other heroes showing up to fight the villains. Just as Kal-L starts to confront Alex, SBP shows up and knocks him away and says he wants nothing to do with this Earth. SBP grabs Wonder Girl whom is then saved by Bart – an older Bart- in Barry’s old Flash costume saying that it was the only costume that could survive the trip. SBP then heads off to OA to destroy the planet and create a new Big Bang that only he could survive and upon leaving shoots a hole in Breach’s outfit causing a reaction that returns Captain Atom to the DCU. Down on the ground Alex shoots Nightwing with a blast in the chest which “appears” to kill him. Out in space SBP fights his way threw the Green Lantern Corp killing a number of them only to have Superman and Kal-L show up and take him away. Cut back to Earth and you see Batman knock Alex down and grab a gun. Just as he is about to shoot him Wonder Woman shows up and tells Bruce that it’s not worth it so he tosses the gun aside. Back in space you see Superman and Kal-L flying through a Red Sun with SBP and crash into the planet Green Lantern. SBP continues to beat on Kal-L when the rest of the Corp shows up to capture SBP. At that point Kal-L dies. We then get a panel where you see Metropolis pretty well damages but the heroes won – how we don’t know as that fight wasn’t covered too much and a one shot of just that fight should have accompanied IC#7. The heroes in space have still not returned. A kid on a beach finds the Tangent Universe’s Green Lantern’s staff. Bart hands over Barry’s costume to Jay as Bart has now exhausted the last of the Speed Force. You then cut to Gotham where you see Alex who gets attacked and killed by the Joker as Luthor looks on telling him that “you made a lot of mistakes. You underestimated Superman. Superboy. Me. But the biggest one is that you didn’t let the Joker play”. At the Gotham docks you see Diana, Clark and Bruce all make amends and take off in their different directions to find themselves; Bruce is with Dick and Tim. You then cut to OA where you find out that SBP is being held in a containment field surrounded by a junior Red Sun eater and 50 Green Lanterns watching him at all times. SBP then carves the Superman symbol into him chest saying “I’ve been in worse places than this. And I’ve gotten out.”

Thanks, you just saved me a couple of bucks.

:s:

Good gravy... :roll:

I still think even the original Crisis was better plotted...

I hope that turns out to be a fake...

Unless the advance copies are phony, you are reading a synopsis of IC 7.
Some posters complain about Wolfman's Crisis, well at least the heroes were allowed a happy ending. Now, those said heroes: die, die in battle, are tortured then die, and lastly, insane with no hope for redemption.

Sorry, to all those who believe otherwise, this is still the Dark Age of comics.

 
RIP
Lois Lane
Superman
Alex Luthor
Superboy Prime

You were killed to make a buck.

I thought Superboy Prime was imprisoned by the Oans...

If they were going to bring an obscure character back to rip DC heroes to pieces, they could have done better than Superboy Prime.

Hoppy the Marvel Bunny, imprisoned by Oans after biting Kon-El's head off (a la Monty Python and the Holy Grail.) Now that's entertainment!

*Gag*... *squared*. So this is how it ends (assuming the synopsis isn't a phony)---as wretched sounding as the whole thing began---Kal-L, the guy who started it all, the living legend, dies by, uh, being slapped around by a teenaged alternate-version of himself?! Superboy-Prime permanently insane?! Along with the previous stupidity like Black Adam poking Psycho-Pirate's brains out with a "Three Stooges" eyepoke, or the hype about bringing back the multiverse only to see just one Earth stick around ultimately (and the last survivors of the pre-Crisis multiverse all killed off in this story). Meh...

That, and from what I've seen so far, I'm convinced "One Year Later" won't change much---just "more of the same" from what it seems like so far  (847 billion heroes all sharing the same one-and-only Earth, a few new characters showing up, etc.), despite all the hype...

While I look forward to trying out Dini's "Batman" stint (for a non-jerkass Batman showing up presumably), guess aside from this and Superman's books, I'll probably be sticking with what I've been buying lately, reprints and titles like "Uncle Scrooge"...

Aside from the carnage and the cost, this seems like a really small story in the long run...

Cross-over event that leads into a cross-over event that leads into a cross-over event that leads into a cross-over event.

Oh yes, I almost forgot, all of DC's standard titles are now $2.99.


Well, it looks like these two sites ares going to see an increase in hits:

http://www.fauxdc.com/

http://www.geocities.com/the5earths/home.htm

The spoilers sound authentic, since it seems Didio has a hatred for happy endings and happy stories in general.

Aside from the fact that it's the best-known of DC's fictional cities, what makes Metropolis the lynchpin on which the whole DCU hinges?  And if this reasoning is correct -- that seizing Metropolis means conquering the Earth -- why don't all villains attack Metropolis to the exclusion of all other cities, all the time?



Oh, brother.  :roll: Except for being routinely shrunk small enough to fit into a ring (something I gather he could've done to any fabric), what's so special about Barry's costume?  Lucky for Bart it wasn't Phantom Lady's costume that had these magical properties.



Umm...yeah, Batman's gonna break his anti-gun code on an also-ran, nobody villain like Alex Luthor.  If Batman wanted someone dead, he could kill him a million ways without using a gun.



And where would that be?  SBP has so far lived on Earth-Prime, where everything was honky-dorey, and in "Paradise."

Anyway, who says this isn't a happy ending?  For a brief moment there, it looked like this series would usher in a new era at DC and I'd be spending a lot of money on comics.  At least my wallet gets a happy ending.

Hmm... I've never seen those before. I might actually start writing comics for FauxDC...

Faux DC is post-Zero Hour Earth

They did clear Hal Jordan with a crazed clone of Hal being controlled by Sinestro.  Sinestro also created evil clones of the Guardians of the Universe.  Kyle has been kept as Green Lantern is a liason to the JLA.  

Supergirl is the PAD Supergirl.  I can't recall what the team that uses the Giffen league is called, but Ted Kord the Blue Beetle was elected leader.

Crisis of Destiny was their sequel to the Crisis on Infinite Earths.   Compare 'Crisis of Destiny' to 'Infinite Crisis'.


Five Earths is based on the premise 'What if at the end of COIE, the five Earths seperated back out again?"

Superboy Prime is on Earth-2 and is being raised as Kal-L and Lois Kent's son.  He's also a member of the Young JSA.

Louise L  has taken over Supergirl's role in the 20th century.


I have no idea which would be better for you to write for or read, but there you go.

I plotted 12 stories last night and insisted that they be pre-Crisis stories and I get artistic freedom. We'll see how that plays out  :D

Here are some sample titles:

"Robin, the Bizarro Wonder!"

"Death to Batman, with War Bonds and Stamps!"

"The Last Days of the Legion of Super-Pets!"


Somehow, I think my proposal might get rejected  :P

Send that to Five Earths and maybe the sideline Earth-12 the Farce Continues will pick it up.

CRISIS COUNSELING: FINAL EDITION
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/counseling7.html

"Continuity waves?" what the...

and they have changed Prime's origin, to make him grow up on a farm. I'm not optimistic about this, because it looks like a way to get rid of Superboy...

Basically, the series is anticlimatic and boils down to this:

All of the BAD things that happened in comics for the last 20 years happened because Superboy Prime punched a wall, and/or Alexander Luthor was moving planets around with his magical hands. On the other hand, all of the GOOD things that have happened in the last 20 years will not matter, because those characters all died in this series.

Even I, who am planning to write a Legion of Super-Pets story, find this to be illogical.

From the Counselling Session with Dido...



'Melded... and share a similiar timeline'? So what, Superman-Prime is maybe now retconned as a version of Kal-El from the past, when he was Superboy? Kal-L is now instead retconned as an older version of Superman from the future? BAFFLING.  :shock:


WHAT?! ...is he Superboy now or isn't he? Batman and Wonder Woman get their rightful origins restored, but not Supes? Why the ambiguity?

Will be picking this up on Friday, but I have to say disappointing. A sad and crushing end for Kal-L, and an utterly disappointing one for Prime and Alexander Luthor... three of whom were heroes pivotal to the the ultimate defeat of the Anti-Monitor of the original Crisis. I had hopes that the multiverse would be restored, that the post-Crisis Earth would function as the template for the rebirth of the Mutliverse which would have been brought about by the energies released after Luthor's tower was destroyed, (and we would learn that it was scheme all along set up by the Monitor before his death. Hence the twist, it was not the Anti-Monitor, but his double behind it all!). As such, Kal-L, Prime and Alexander would be sent back to their respective universes as they were before the original Crisis, (in my imaginary scenario, Kal-L would be reunited with a happy and healthy Lois on Earth-2, Prime would be his young, teenage self, and with no memories of either Crisis on Earth-Prime and Alexander would be reduced to being a newborn baby of Lex and Lois Luthor on Earth-3).

Sigh... fanfic anyone? ;)

This is really a dang simple story for 7 parts and paying the money...beings that most modern fans have forgotten try to do something big and are defeated, with some odd ideas (melding, continuity waves) and tossed in bloody ends...

So in other words, we need to differentiate Superboy-Prime's POST-Infinite-Crisis origin from his PRE-Infinite-Crisis origin.

As if things weren't confusing enough.

Sounds to me like they really didn't bother to know what his real origin was and then tried to do spin-control after the fact.

:s:

I think so too.  DC has a habit of coming up with convoluted explanations for writers just forgetting things.  

The ending was anti-climatic.  Hardly seemed worth the effort.

And the all-important question... is the multiverse back? Johns and Dido said after IC, it would not be the multiverse "as you know it." So is my theory right... did Alexander's actions result in kick-starting a new multiverse? After being teased throughout this mini, with the return (and ruining) of these old characters, and the appearance of the past and new multiple earths, I'm caring less and less.

DC has repeated their mistake from COIE.

The Matrix Supergirl has been said that she hasn't existed and has never existed.

That really is the tragedy of this whole thing...

I didn't know what "Crisis" was until I was an adult and one of my college roommates had it. I grew up reading pre-Crisis Superman and Superboy stories that I bought regularly from a flea market, as well "post-Crisis" stories such as Impulse,  the 90s Justice League, etc.

And while I feel like going "Ha! Your life has been wasted!" to all the 30-something fanboys who try to correct me, speaking of "post-Crisis Superman" and his "power levels," it really is sad, because a lot of good potential has been lost.

From the "Crisis Counseling" article:
>>Q: Geoff Johns said from the start that the purpose of IC was not a big continuity fix for the DCU, but that it would address and fix certain issues. Can you now tell about those continuity issues/fixes and why it was decided upon to change it up now?

DD: We have gone to great lengths to drive one, single cohesive universe. This is our way to acknowledge the past, reconcile its differences, and put the incongruities behind us for good. Now, our primary goal is to maintain a one true continuity for the DC Universe. And while Prime might be on his way to become the greatest villain in the DCU, he’s my hero for helping clear up our convoluted history .

<<

and

>>Q: What exactly is your interpretation of how the Earths were merged at the end of CoIE? Do you see it as elements only from the five Earths that were saved merged together, elements from every one of the infinite Earths merged together, the one true Earth that had been broken into multiple Earths being reassembled again, or something entirely different?

DD: What I see is a single world with endless possibilities with a history built on the greatest stories ever told.
<<

In other words, looks like the 847-bazillion-heroes-sharing-one-Earth set up continues... meh...

I can't know for certain, but my guess is that they didn't publish such a GN because then they would have had to pay Maggin royalties.  So instead they completely ignored the SBP adventures (http://superman.nu/tales2/superboyprime/).  Which is pretty silly - because without those 2 or 3 SBP stories, the character is completely meaningless!

:s:

Wait a minute.  Superboy-Prime changed continuity by banging on a wall?  And part of the continuity that was altered was his origin?  So Superboy changed his own history by banging on the wall?  :roll:

If in fact Superboy's past was altered, then why would his motivations remain?  If he was adopted by different people, how could he mourn the parents and Earth-Prime we saw pre-COIE?  The older version of SBP seemed well-adjusted and sane, this one is neither.  Is that because the "yuppie" parents were good and the "farmer" parents not so good?  Or because the end of Earth-Prime now occured in a more upsetting way than it did before?  Does his "new" origin account for his madness?  But if it does, how can it when he started banging on the wall before he "got" the new origin?

Seven issues, multiple tie-ins, lead-ins and spin-offs later, the message of IC to collectors is clear (if not very original):  A fool and his money are soon parted.  Poor fanboys.  Hardly seems worth those double shifts at Taco Bell just to collect this farce.

IC was a waste of money and time. DC expects us to buy 52 to find out what happens next?! Sorry, as for me, I am canceling all current DC titles. I'll purchase the occasional one shot (i.e. Jeff Smith's Captain Marvel), archive, or back issue. Otherwise, I am done.

Can I convince you to head over to Heroic Publishing and try Flare out?

:)

Issue 33 had a supervillian shark, squidoids, invading space-gorrilia, and dinosuars in the main feature. and the back up stoy with Sparkplug was well written too.

Infinite Crisis 7 has conivinced me to treasure Heroic Publishing, since Heroic gets it when it comes to super-heroes for the most part..  There are a flew clunkers, but still....

Infinite Crisis was not mature.

Sparkplug is a mature character.  Her original mini-series just was not written correctly.  But then, trying to write a super-heroine who is also a pro-Nazi is a big task.  The message that Heroic wanted to get across is that everone is a prisoner of their own perceptions.

I don't know if the crystals in the Paradise Dimension protrayed ONLY real events, or were sometimes shaped by the viewer's thoughts.  This could be a case where observation indeed affects the observed phenomena.  

Also, one poster on the DC Message Boards recalled an earlier multi-Earth Crisis involving Earth-Prime DC Comics staff Cary Bates and Elliot S! Maggin.  Once on Earth-1 and Earth-2, these "normal" Earth-Prime residents could affect REALITY.  Perhaps they were already "attuned" to Earth-1 and Earth-2 due to their profession, or maybe they possessed sufficient imagination to actually manipulate the other DC Earths.

So perhaps Superboy-Prime unknowingly possesses the most incredible power of all -- the manipulation of reality.  When Prime struck the crystal wall to retrieve images of his idealized past again (almost ike whacking a TV set to get better reception), he inadvertantly CHANGED what he was viewing.  Not even Kal-L could do this -- note there were no alternate images when he pounded his way through the crystal wall, and neither did Lois experience ill effects.  But neither Prime or Alex truly understood what was happening.  Otherwise, they could have accomplished their goals by selectively "rapping" on the crystals until the desired result was jarred into existence, and only Lois would feel it.

As for changing his own background, remember that Superboy-Prime never learned about his true past on Krypton-Prime.  This was VERY different in several aspects -- Krypton was doomed by the sun going supernova, Prime was transported to Earth, rather than via rocket ship, etc.  But Superboy-Prime would naturally assume his history fully paralleled Earth-1 and to an extent Earth-2.  So he HAD to arrive by rocket, and the Kents HAD to own a farm, even though the true facts deemed otherwise.  If you examine Prime's other memories, you'll see other glaring inconsistencies with the account in DC Comics Presents #87 -- they weren't on the beach to see Halley's Comet, Laurie didn't kiss him just prior to his superpowers manifesting, etc.  But that's how Prime WANTS it to be, and in recreating his own past to reflect his skewed perspective, Superboy-Prime became far different than the kid in DCCP #87.  That's why he can't find HIS Earth-Prime -- it actually never existed in Pre-Crisis history the way he "remembered" it.  But if Prime ever realizes this, and imagines strongly enough...  :shock:

I'm admittedly still in post-Infinite Crisis denial, but I'd like to believe that the REAL Superboy-Prime is still somewhere in a temporal vortex, waiting for Superman to rescue him so they can fight the Anti-Monitor.  The Superboy-Prime that appeared since Crisis #10 and we ASSUMED was the same one was really a temporal "clone" created by the Time Trapper before he decided to create an entire Pocket Universe...

At least, that's what I want to believe.  Anyone got a crystal wall I can "bounce" this idea off?   :(

I know this won't be the popular opinion but I agree with most of the changes to Alexander & SBP. Both of them were trapped for years in a pocket dimension for years cut off from the contact of otheres. Yes, Superman 2 & Lois Kent were also there but the age gap was too big. Instead of a closed off prison the foursome should've travelled the universe or at least different dimensions. Alexander & Prime would've had experiences and been allowed to grow up. I don't like the changes to Prime's origin; I like that he was the only Clark Kent not raised on the farm but rather the big city.

This idea -- that residents of Earth-Prime have the ability to alter reality on the other Earths (which after all were CREATED by the thoughts of various persons on Earth-Prime) -- is very intriguing.  No, scratch that, it's brilliant.  And the fact that you could come up with it tells me you'll never be writing for DC.

I'd like to see stories written around this idea.  But don't waste your brainstorm defending DC, when you know its more profound and interesting than anything they actually intended.  Seems to me the most creative ideas in modern comics are generated by fans trying to explain why comics don't actually suck despite all evidence to the contrary.  If we could just harness that brainpower and use it to produce a new line of comics, I for one would be collecting again.

I never had any idea of the paradise dimension as being confining...Lois 2 said it was beautiful, so I figured there was lots of space and things to check out there... 8)

Yet there were no people the boys' age for them to associate with. Yes the place was like a paradise but that can be tedious if you don't have friends.

Luthor created it, and he could had left whatever he wanted, and in fact did, to do things that were completely against his character, same with SBP. Alex was created for Crisis, so I really don't care what they did with him, though I do think it is rather absurd that someone so powerful was killed by someone with no powers in a rather ho-hum fashion.

Just my opinions, but...

1. The idea that Earth Prime could affect the other universes IS good -- would have been better if Earth Prime didn't diverge from "real" Earth with its own timeline and some super heroes making it just as fictitious as any comic universe...

2. What a gyp of a paradise dimension if you need people your own age to play with...sounds more like a boarding school...

3. To those fanboys on other boards that say Kal-L got a fitting tribute because he dies in a glorious bloody battle, er, comic's idea of "tribute" sure has changed...

Funny thing is, the paradise dimension had an entirely different depiction in The Kingdom.

In that depiction, there were other people residing in the dimension along with the four.

When Crisis ended, we knew nothing about this "Paradise," only that it was supposed to be great.  Was it Earth-2?  Tahiti?  The Rockettes' dressing room?  Blissful oblivion?  Who could say?

As noted, "Kingdom" showed it looking like a thriving Metropolis on some Earth or other.

It's only IC that made it an empty world where young heroes can go mad from loneliness.  Thus this is not a logical development progressing from established history; it's a case of the writers deciding they WANTED Superboy and Alex to go mad, and then creating the conditions that could make that possible (at least in their opinion).

It's the same old argument given for Superman killing the Phantom Zone villains: "What else could he do?"  Wrong...in that case, too, the writer decided what he wanted the outcome to be -- Superman kills -- and then manipulated events to make that happen.

Firts of all, i admit that i have still to read Infinite Crisis so i know nothing about this story(except the information and the comments, left on this forum from who it has already read it  of course)but yesterday a friend of mine has told me that the DC has the intention to bring it back from the dead, Barry Allen :shock: and making him The Flash again,it is true?

 :s:  :s:  :s:

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock: i hope not. well i red all the IC and no clues point to that.

Also i began to read DC comics with the crisis, and the original crisis are very special to me, but i get dissapointed with the end of IC, for my the series begin to lose interest in the number 5 and never rises again. maybe if they done the series with 12 numbers. :lol:

I think I finally figured why DC/Dan Didio did that to Kal-L.  It has something to do with a certain cartoon.  The Fleischer Superman cartoon.

What is so special about this group of cartoons that makes DC lose their cool and want to take it out symbolically on a version of Kal-L?  Easy.  The cartoon has fallen into the public domain.  Anyone with a copy of the cartoon can record it or transfer it other media or sell it or even put it up on the net and DC just has to grit their teeth and take it.

Take a look at what DC did to Captain Marvel.  'Petty' doesn't even begin to describe the DC editorial staff.  The Superboy battering has to do with the lawsuit.  DC is trying to wreck the toys, so no one else can play with them.

After all that, it's still just grim n' gritty business as usual.

Whatever DC. Whatever.

Thus ends the dream of the Multiverse/Earth 2 returning.  What a waste of time this entire series was.  It killed a number of minor characters, eliminated Wally West and Conner Kent/Superboy.  Other than that, not much really happened or helped.

They teased us with it for Zero Hour; they teased us with it for Kingdom; and they teased us with it for Infinite Crisis.  They'll probably try to tease us again for the next big X-over, but I'm not buying it.  I'm tired of seeing everything destroyed ad-infinitum.  IC pretty much destroyed whatever faith I had left in DC and soured my taste for comics in general.  If this is what it all comes to, then there was no point to the last 70 years.  It seems that the folks at DC can do a pretty good job of destruction and of tearing everything down, but I don't see any creation or originality or respect for the readers or even respect for their own characters.


Agreed, you can pretty much ignore it.  It had no effect on any of the books.  Pointless, ultra-violent, anti-life, and a complete destruction of DC's own history, values, characters, and creators.

I know that DC took the name Infinite Crisis from Grant Morrison's Infinite Crisis idea of a few years back, which was supposed to continue from his JLA and One Million story.  I'd love to find out what his original proposal was.   Most likely all that survived was the name.

:s:

Well let's take a look at this, We have the Crisis ended, w're minus superboy and a flash,  that is familer tune isn't it? I wonder will anyone remember Kal-L and Lois this time around?

It's obvious that the entire thing was concocted as not only this years cheap sales gimmick but also as a lightly veiled expression of hate and disgust to any and all who have expressed a desire to move away from this neverending grimschlock.

Powergirl and Wildcat seem to and the Thunderbolt clearly remembered the Earth 2 Batman in the latest JSA.

The thing that bugs me is that Didio said that the current Supes is the actual Pre-Crisis E1 Supes. Yet, he hasn't shown any memory whatsoever of his pre-Crisis adventures. It doesn't seem fair that some characters get to keep their memories while Superman gets the shaft once again.

Earth-1 still lives, on television. I'm watching an episode of The Flash (with Barry Allen) right now. Two facts remain: Crisis on Infinite Earths has had very little bearing on TV shows, and DVDs of the same shows are, for their entertainment value, less expensive than comics.

When you can get 18 episodes of Superman: The Animated series for 20 dollars, or one comic for 3, the choice is then obvious. On tv, Barry Allen still lives. Superman was a founding member of the Justice League, and spent his formative years in the Legion of Superheroes. The story of Earth-1 is still being written...forget the comics!*



*except, of course, All-Star Superman

Add in the two fanfic sites, Faux DC and Five Earths Project  which you can read pretty much for free(internet connection and computer costs being the price you pay)

There are also other fanfic sites such as Continum Worlds that are also out there.

BTW you can pick up the original Superman cartoon for about $10 and it has 17 episodes on it.

I recently just got INFINITE CRISIS #7, and I must say, overall I was pleased - it was like the last three pages of a really good story...for nearly an entire issue.

AS I HAVE ACTUALLY READ THE ISSUE, I thus am entitled to an opinion on it. (take note, Nightwing and Super Monkey!)

High points of the issue:

Usually when they have crowd scenes of Green Lanterns, they usually call on the same two or three guys over and over. Tomar-Re must be the Paris Hilton of Green Lanterns: always showing up when there's a party. But at least in this splash page, there are tons of great GLs that don't usually make the scene: for instance, there was the moustachioed lemon-skinned Green Lantern from the alien world that was perpetually in the Middle Ages. Amazing how knowledgeable Geoff Johns is about the Lantern Corps - is the sludge-yeast creature the Mike W. Barr creation Eddore?

When Wonder Woman's invisible jet showed up ever so subtly - it was there all along - it showed just how downright cool an invisible jet can be.

Is that the Chinese staff used by the Green Lantern from that Elseworlds that washed up on that beach? What an idea - incorporating it into the mainstream DCU!

Well, the arc covering the characters of Wonder Woman and Batman are over: Wonder Woman has learned the err of her ways, and Batman's characterization is fundamentally altered away from his 1990s "hunchback" grotesquery: he has admitted he is able to have allies and refuses to go at things alone anymore. And was that a smile I saw him crack at the end there?

Speaking of another character whose arc appears to have been greatly advanced by this story, we come to Bart Allen. Previously, I denounced him as an irritating snot when he first appeared; thanks to Geoff Johns, he gained intelligence and maturity. Now he looks like an honestly worthy heir to the Flash. I wouldn't count Wally out right away, thoughl considering the nature of Wally's disappearance, we will almost assuredly see him again.

A few complaints:

Has Amazo suddenly become the biggest paper tiger in the entire DC Universe? He was vanquished to scrap metal in a PANEL. Granted, this series has a brisk pace, nonetheless, in Alan Davis's THE NAIL, Amazo was beat in a page and a half. In "Rock of Ages," Amazo was taken down by computer viruses before the fight even began. Amazo, potentially one of the most terrifying villains in the DC Universe, has been reduced to a wimp! This is no single writer's fault, but Amazo needs desperately the Catman treatment, stat. Are you listening, Gail Simone?

I've been wondering how Superman would lose his powers. Surely there is a better explanation than just "he flew through a Kryptonite cloud." HINT: Fly AROUND the Kryptonite cloud.



Remember that post I made a while back about how aggrivating it is that there seems to be nearly the same superhero universe over and over, without any innovation - always with World War II as the flashpoint and point of origination, tiresome legacy characters, and so forth? FLARE is "Exhibit A." The Silver Age wasn't great because it was based on dinosaurs and giant apes - it was based on innovation, it was based on tight plotting. A nostalgic trotting out of World War II heroines, dinosaurs and giant apes does not a good comic make.

Someone somewhere else compared FLARE to the brilliant MONKEYMAN AND O'BRIEN. This is a bit like comparing Fabian to Elvis. Not the least of which because MONKEYMAN had the hilariously appropriately named genius Art Adams behind it. Not the least because MONKEYMAN was something never seen before: a heroic adventure series with superheroic and b-movie elements whose closest cousin was the horror detective series HELLBOY. FLARE on the other hand, is yet another SUPREME or ALL-STAR SUPERMAN, except it doesn't have a genius like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison and lacks the sense of humor these works have, which means it essentially just rehashes cliches (see also: the Mark Waid FLASH). Whether it is Silver Age cliches like space gorillas or modern age cliches like gritty spy plots, a cliche is a cliche.

This is why low budget horror movies about killer urinals that are IN ON THEIR OWN JOKE will never truly be as charming or as creative as something unaware of itself like THEY SAVED HITLER'S BRAIN and THE TERROR OF TINY TOWN (an all midget musical western) they they are desperately trying to resemble and simultaneously parody in an ironic way.

The only recent thing I've read lately that even remotely captures the spirit of the Silver Age is our own Al Schroeder III's MINDMISTRESS web comic. Not because Al brings out Dinosaurs, but because he creates legitimately new ideas drawn from his wide knowledge. In the words of Basho, it doesn't try to duplicate the Masters - it merely seeks what they sought. (Though the Unicorn Jelly crossover was one I could take or leave - what next, Mind Mistress meets Michael Jackson, while we're doing crossovers with repulsive people?)



Very well put.

It was sort of like how the Englehart Deadshot wildly differed in characterization from the Finger Deadshot - the reason his characterization was radically altered was because an extensive amount of time occurred in the interim that transformed their personality and modus operandi - this was seen in the Wolfman-penned INFINITE CRISIS SECRET FILES.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again: I absolutely don't grasp the sudden sense of loss with Superboy Prime. He was a character created for CRISIS that didn't survive the CRISIS - a "wedding dress" character just like the Anti-Monitor that was put on and discarded. Emphasizing his importance is really rewriting history, and there's no point in getting all worked up about him now. The fact the writers were able to get mileage out of him as a fairly chilling and effective villain is a very interesting creative choice, and indeed, logical considering what took place in the Paradise Dimension.

Actually, Superboy-Prime works better as a villain than as a hero in some ways. For one thing, his overwhelming power level makes him a truly terrifying adversary. The guy took on at least a few hundred Green Lanterns and two Supermen and killed six Lanterns at once. "You don't know cold. Cold is being the only survivor of an earth eliminated from history." Suddenly, the events of the original CRISIS are used to give his backstory a degree of poignancy. The purpose of backstory in villains is to explain why they're so twisted and antisocial, and this certainly qualifies.



Did you even read the miniseries at all?

Far be it for Yours Truly to interrupt someone pissing and moaning, but this criticism is totally off the wall. It's a bit like calling Kareem Abdul Jabaar "a very short man."

A miniseries that featured STANLEY AND HIS MONSTER in a guest-star role, which has the Middle Ages yellow Green Lantern prominent in a crowd shot, which had an appearance by a lightning monster from a 1950s issue of TOMMY TOMORROW...well, it may be many things, but it certainly is not reflecting a passive-aggressive distaste for fans of DC history.

The series killed off the Matrix Supergirl and the dark, cheesy new Batgirl that doesn't talk.  They got rid of the new Batgirl, even though her book was selling. The editorial vision is "New Silver Age." They're creating a new Justice League that is going to be reminiscent of the Englehart sattelite era. In a million ways, INFINITE CRISIS is supposed to be a cohesive new DC of a kind we ought to find familiar.

To quote Russell Crowe: "Are you not entertained?"

This thing had STANLEY AND HIS MONSTER for the love of Moke. This book is aimed at us - fans who believe history should be used to influence present characterizations. But all everyone seems to be doing is whining and nitpicking about a character we didn't care about two years ago, but now we pretend to, now that he's getting some use for a change.

THIS is why writers don't do things like bring back Hal Jordan very often - because there's just no pleasing you people.

And say what you like about Iron Age fans, at least they READ the books. I haven't read a single comment on this thread in all - jeez, what is it now, seven pages? Not a single comment that would give the slightest indication anyone apart from myself actually read the series they're criticising. Now, why is this important?

Remember the balls-to-the-wall reaction that fans gave when they heard Spock was going to die? Why isn't there any lingering bitterness to this day about the Death of Spock? The reason is the overwhelming reaction was "oh, well I didn't know you were going to do it like THAT."

I am not saying that Spock's death in Wrath of Khan and INFINITE CRISIS are equivalent at least in all ways. I am, however, saying that the reason that criticism of Wrath of Khan and the Death of Spock fizzled into nothingness was because PEOPLE WENT TO SEE THE MOVIE.

I for one, was deeply concerned when some loudmouth blabbed to me about the death of the Freedom Fighters. Someone even listed the death of Phantom Lady as looking very mysoginistic, and I agreed with their reasoning - forgetting for the moment that if you haven't read something it looks however you think it looks. However, after actually reading the death of the Freedom Fighters, I was actually moved. Johns has an amazing ability to get me to like a character and then kill them. Uncle Sam never felt more dramatic or dynamic than he did in the caption boxes by Geoff Johns that described him as someone that wrestled Paul Bunyan and taught Johnny Appleseed how to plant.

Many people said about Spock's death, "oh, I didn't know they were going to do it THAT way." And that was my reaction to the Freedom Fighters: "I didn't know they were going to do it that way."

I mean, jeez, Wonder Woman again is a founder of the JLA. Batman caught Joe Chill but continued to protect Gotham City anyway. Superman had a career as Superboy.

My point is this, 1) yes, there IS change from the status quo (though to be fair, it lacks the single BIG change that the original Crisis had, namely the merging of all the earths) and 2) it is a change to a ground more consistent with these characters' histories. So I don't want to hear any nonsense about DC "throwing their history away" (I'm looking squarely at you here, Great Rao).

And to everyone that thought the multiverse would return come IC and are disappointed by its absence...I feel your pain, the multiverse was a great idea and they shouldn't have scrapped it. But I don't exactly remember that being a "campaign promise" here. Geoff Johns can't be faulted for not delivering on a promise he never made. They DID promise, though, to create a world with heroic heroes, and thus far, they've fulfilled their promise. Batman's cracked a smile and isn't a jerk anymore. Superman...well, we're all seeing the great stuff Busiek and Geoff Johns are doing in his title.

And really, to everyone out there whining about the death of Earth-2 Superman: first, I have to give major props to Geoff Johns for bringing back the character at all. Second, remember the whole "it's a paradise of love" thing in the original CRISIS? That was exactly the same as dying. Let's not all pretend we all were thinking of it as a place Kal-L could be brought back from. Third, did at any point Earth-2 Superman behave out of character? It wasn't like Hal Jordan becoming a villain, here. Earth-2 Superman was confused for a moment in a very natural way, but in the end he showed his true colors and saved the earth. He behaved consistently with how we have known the character to behave, and that's more than most receive; note the mistreatment Beetle suffered under Keith Giffen back in '86. And despite the now-proven totally wrong, histrionic warnings of a few among you who shall remain nameless but whose name rhymes with "Bitewing," Earth-2 Superman never turned evil. He was never a mastermind behind the events. He and the other characters had a disagreement but when the chips were down, Kal-L does what any Superman does.

Fourth, the door isn't 100% closed. Superman's last words were "it's not going to end. It's never going to end for people like us." (Something I KNOW, by the way, because I READ THE ISSUE.) Now, this wasn't exactly taking Power Girl by the head, doing a Vulcan Mind Meld while saying "Remember," but if that wasn't telegraphing a possible return, I don't know what is. And finally, the whole "Lois" thing where he is kissing her as a giant silouette in space...well, that's just a very moving image.



We've got Kurt Busiek writing SUPERMAN. We've got Morrison on Batman. Steve Englehart is going to do another Batman miniseries. Geoff Johns is writing...well, a bunch of titles. All these things are going on...and you're pointing to a FANFIC site as an alternative to DC Comics? That's like going to a tribe deep in the Amazon, and telling them that "these knives will work much better than the machine guns you have now."

Insert your own joke from the choices, here:

( "Wow, so THAT'S what Chuck Austen is doing with his time now!" )

( "We've got Kurt Busiek on ACTION COMICS...but on the other hand, we've got Darren Madigan on A SELF-INSERTION SAVES THE UNIVERSE. Decisions, decisions..." )

( "Fanfiction: producing LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES writers since 1986!" )

( Left blank for your own joke )

Well Julian, your very interesting and well-executed opinion on IC has encouraged me, (even if I don't completely agree with you), to put forward some thoughts on the subject!

Yes, I would agree that the Secret Files Infinite Crisis was well done, in terms of showing the progression of Alexander and SP to the masterminds behind the events of the second Crisis. But what was emphasised above anything (no matter what their actions were to be in the mini itself) was that the reader was to feel sympathy for the two in what made them want to do what they did. Of course, SP lost his world, but the only life Alexander has ever known was fighting in the original Crisis, (I particularly liked Alex's thoughts when SP talked of kissing Laurie and what it is like, "No I don't. But I wish I did.").

So on this point, this story succeeded. Just as a personal hope as a reader, I was looking forward to some sort of redemption for the two, (considering they rightfully earned the status of heroes after the battle with the Anti-Monitor) or that Superboy-Prime's wish would be granted by returning to his world.

And yes, it is inaccurate to say Kal-L was a villain, merely misguided by Alexander's mainipulations and Lois' illness. It is a deliberate ploy by Johns to throw the reader, but we see that Kal's heroic nature and the need to help others triumphed, even as early as #3 in the conversation with Bruce about Dick Grayson.

But on Kal-L, I do take issue with his death as it occured in the series, (not the fact he was killed off, which could have been done any number of ways), and the graphic nature of the scene itself, in which the first superhero was reduced to being powerless and beaten to death by a pyschotic teenager. Even one of his last lines, "Superman saved us." would to me suggest that Johns is trying to put forward the idea that the heroics and idealism of Kal-L is of little worth in these more cynical times. Though his death scene, ("Lois."), was quite well done and moving, particularly with the art. (And most of all #7 had some fine examples of bad art, such as the double-spread of pages 2 and 3, and as such, it was good creative decision to have Perez on board for some pivotal scenes).

In contrast, as a fan of Kon-El, I thought his sacrfice to thwart Alex's plans was really well done and fitting to the character. (Especially his poignant last words to Cassie, in which he said "lost his way", and that ironically he had found himself again only at his death).

As a whole Infinite Crisis had it's moments - some of the fantastic -  particularly in returning the Big Three to their roots and setting them up for future stories, (Clark can build on his relationship with Lois; Diana tries to re-connect with her humanity; and Bruce become more trusting with those close to him).  I just think, as a reader who enjoys the comics of all eras and not a die-hard traditionalist like many on the site seem, I think the story itself and the execution at times had it's faults. (I point to how certain major events during the events of the mini occured elsewhere, and I point to the other Specials as examples of this, for #7, the villain battle in Metropolis seems rather left-field).  

And just to note, I have read the original Crisis numerous times (a friend casually lending the collected edition to me, who was a die-hard Marvellite, and it was Crisis that got me interested in collecting Superman comics!), and I have bought the entire IC mini, and any tie-in realted to Superman. And I can't stand 90% of the fan fiction out there, as shallow and ham-fisted as most of it is.

I hope it was worth the whopping $3.99 price tag to "earn" the right to that opinion.  

I've made an effort to restrain myself from posting much on this thread precisely *because* I haven't read the book; if you look at my posts they're usually asking questions that may come off as rhetorical (certainly smart-mouthed), but I really would like some answers from people who've read the story and understand it.  (Like how Superboy can change the circumstances of his own birth and childhood by hitting a wall and whether this banging made him a bad guy, or if he turned bad first and then changed his history, etc).  

All I need to know about this book I know from flipping through it in the store: people are decapitated, dismembered, de-brained, blinded, impaled, incinerated and beaten to death in graphic detail.  With images like that, I don't care if it's the greatest prose since the Bard himself slipped this mortal coil.  I am not about to bring imagery like that into my home because (1) I can't stomach it at my age and (2) I don't need it around my kids.  Similarly, Quentin Tarantino and Martin Scorcese may be two top-notch directors but the likes of "Pulp Fiction" and "Goodfellas" will not be in my DVD collection any time soon.  

I don't care if Stanley and his Monster eat ice cream with Sugar and Spike on Page 5.  If Pscyho Pirate's getting his eyeballs poked through his head on Page 6, I'm out.  

If that makes me an old fogey and curmudgeon, so be it.  Glad you enjoyed the book.  Me, I'm 4 bucks closer to affording Showcase Presents Superman Volume 2.

I suppose the criticism of not having read it is valid, but then again its possible to see enough elements that you wouldn't want to read it...

To me, the arguments could be broken into two elements...

1.  The end of the multiverse and the re-writing of characters and elements because of that...

2.  The use of extreme violence and gore, to me none of which is made more "real" or gripping by comic dialog which remains fairly abbreviated and telegraphic even in the modern age...

Sure, I'm out of it, I haven't ponied any of my own money for comics since 1971...

I can accept element 1 listed above, I actually find that the Crisis was a sweeping story, with death a part of the fight to keep universes from dying...(not a fan of the DC "no plan" for post-Crisis, however).

That's different than Superboy Prime beating Kal-L to a bloody pulp as part of his own insanity or satisfying modern Joker bloodlust by having him blow the the left half of the face of Alex off...fine if you like that, but there aren't any alternatives for super hero stories these days?  And it does get a little personally distressing because these are some characters at least in name that used to interact in a very different way...

Right.  I understand what you are saying.  However, there are things that are different from a standard comic universe.

Sparkplug.  This is a girl who was raised and still believes in the Nazi ideals.  She actually was doing her best to save a person she believed to be innocent and refused to accept the truth about his role in the death camps and chewed out the goverment agents who shot and killed him for resisting arrest.  In US comics, a Nazi is always a villian.  Not this time.  Sparkplug is a heroine.  

There are a few other things that are new to the Heroic Universe, but that is the biggest one right there.

The tight plotting to the stories is there.  It's no worse or beter than a lot of other comics from yesterday or today.

As to the complaint that Flare is derivative?  Of course it is.  It was based on characters used in the 3rd edition Champions RPG as background bits.  The Champions game itself was based on the Marvel universe.

As for a super-hero comic that is really original:  A Miracle of Science.
http://www.project-apollo.net/mos/

Having read all of the issues of Infinite Crisis, plus the miniseries that came before it, without having to spend any of my own money or keep them in my house, MY opinion is the BEST opinion!

Now, since that debate has been settled, Infinite Crisis 1 and 2 were good. The rest of the issues were like eating crap...but on a stick! Good did come out of it, though, because I was inspired to purge every post-Crisis Superman thing from my house. It's like the Inquisition in here! Just today I made 125 dollars by selling my Smallville DVDs to a soldier. I'm going to make a killing :twisted: on Amazon.com, and less than 2 months before my wedding too!

That said, along with the fact that I actually miss Hypertime now, I am more optimistic about Superman comics than I have been in a long time. I still won't buy them unless Clark Kent was once Superboy, but still...

1. Kurt Busiek hangs out on this forum, and we are the gods of written language. Therefore, it follows logically that Kurt Busiek is a good writer.

2. Richard Donner made Tales from the Crypt, and his name is going to be on Action Comics. What word does 'Crypt' resemble? That's right, Krypton.

3. In All-Star Superman, we see that Superman's housekey is really heavy again. That means there will be a bloody war in the arctic for ages, until someone can pick up the key again and become king! Sweet!

So as you have come to discover, my opinion being the best one, the whole Infinite Crisis experience was  like taking perfectly good food, putting it through organic chemical processes, putting it on a stick, and then eating it. But for Superman comics, at least, I think there's hope for the future.

Except that the past still didn't happen, and the present is pretty unclear. If I were the Ghost of Christmas Future, I would be feeling pretty lucky right now.

But does it taste like lizard on a stick? :wink:

LOL...

I imagine it tastes like the gopher in "O Brother, Where Art Thou?"...

Nevertheless, I proudly stand behind my conviction that its crap without having read it... :lol:

The Paradice Dimension was a nice little dimension for Superman 2 and Lois to go as an honor to their DC history...sure Superboy Prime was a device invented during Crisis to fill a noble role in trying to stop the end of countless universes...

Taking these characters and making one a standard criminal who wants to re-make reality based on his own selfish desires is pretty much standard comic book fare...

Having him bludgeon Kal-L with bloody fists while screaming out his angst is hardly a universe altering paragon of an epic...

In fact its actually a small story, hikacking big characters, with a lot of gore...

Kal and Lois's faces in the sky are essentially nothing different than their fate during the Crisis, for all this "epic"...

Yeah, it's piracy how they jack the prices up. But that's nothing. I pay $10 for a movie ticket and I STILL have to stand in line. What I don't get is why popcorn costs so much. You know that stuff is almost free? And I will never understand how a disk made of plastic like a DVD suddenly explodes to $24.99. with video, I suppose it MIGHT be worth that much; after all, there are a lot of little parts and wheels and springs inside of a videocassette - but these glorified coasters?

The one thing I regret most about the switch to magazine paper isn't the increased cost. It's the fact that if you didn't like a story, you could always tear out pages and use the creamy, smooth pulp paper to wipe your backside (which is why I don't have very many Gerry Conway issues left). The Nuclear War surviving, nigh-indestructible paper used in comics now, though, probably will stick around in your septic tank for the next 10,000 years, to say nothing of the pain on sensitive skin.

When it comes to this particular comic, I don't feel screwed over, because Geoff Johns has a way of making me feel like I get my money's worth. It isn't just because we've got Wonder Woman losing her killer instinct and Batman cracking a smile and trusting his friends. No; it's all about little things, like the whole cute little bit with the Invisible Airplane, which may be the only time that idea, which is rather goofy, was made to be the neatest thing ever. Plus, a fight scene on MOGO ITSELF. I mean, that's getting some more mileage out of a great idea there (and, Mogo gets dialogue!).

As for your critique about violence...you are correct that Johns has a thing for EC-style ghoulishness - Johns's tenure on FLASH coincided with Grodd suddenly developing a taste for human flesh. While I love Johns, I have no intention of defending this. Many otherwise sharp writers have one eyesore of a flaw: with Roy Thomas, it's his inability to characterize female characters. Chris Claremont has the exact same problem. For Geoff Johns, it's his tendency to go for New York Post type blood and guts sensationalism.

Every person has an individual tolerance for what amount of violence they find offensive. It's not a question of age; many adults can't watch THE GODFATHER, while many kids love late-night zombie movies. And SOMEBODY had to have read all those EC comics involving wives that eat their murdered husbands so there isn't any evidence.

Also, here's the thing about violence: the human mind is a very, very sick thing. We hear something described (like for instance, in a spoiler post), and we tend to make it a million times more embellished and grewsome in our heads than it actually is shown to be on paper. When I saw the actual Freedom Fighters death, compared to how I pictured it from the spoilers, it came off as downright mild. And it was; nearly every severe blow was implied, the next panel turns somewhere else and all we get is the very chilling sound effect. No internal organs, no excessive gore...in one pair of panels, Bizarro hits a guy, but we don't even SEE the blow connecting - all we see is next panel that there's blood on Bizarro's chalky hand. if this was a movie, I doubt it would even make it to PG-13. As for the Alex Luthor/Joker encounter at the end of #7...oh come on. The Nazis' heads melting at the end of RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK was much worse than this.

Gangbuster Thorul writes:



So is that *worse*, because you might chip your tooth on the stick?  Or *better*, because you don't get any crap on your fingers?  I'm lost.

Julian Perez writes:



Standing in line is nothing.  Watching 10-20 minutes of freaking COMMERCIALS after paying 10 dollars to escape TV is an outright kick in the nads.  



It certainly is funny that the great classic comics of yesteryear were printed on cheap pulp paper for 10 cents a book, while the junk of today is preserved forever on high-gloss, archival quality paper.  Just like it's funny that a thieving moron like Todd McFarlane could get rich on comics while geniuses like Wayne Boring and Bill Finger died in poverty and obscurity.  In other words, the unfunny kind of "funny."



The problem with Roy and Chris, I think, is that they'll never say in five words what they could say in 500.  I still remember reading Chris' X-Men, where a character could get punched in the face and deliver a four-paragraph soliloquy before hitting the pavement.  And I agree he did a lousy job writing female characters, which was doubly annoying as he seemed obsessed with them (apparently he thought he was great at it).



A lot of it's context.  I liked some of that old EC stuff, but the violence served the suspense...the real chills were usually psychological in nature.  In contrast, superhero books are childish fantasies and extreme gore has no place in them, any more than genitalia belongs on the Teletubbies.

I find I could handle violence in films if it was handled with style and ability, but that was in the days before DVDs and home video.  Then the violence was fleeting, whereas now we can pause on it all day, and it's the repetition that wears me down.  Likewise, I find I can handle the occasional flash of blood and guts on the TV news, but I stay away from glossy pictorial spreads of the same images in TIME and Newsweek.  Somehow it's the relative permanence of those images that offends me.  



That may be the case in your example, but I have seen all over the Web the panels where Black Adam shoves Psycho Pirates eyeballs through his skull, SBP rips the arm off some also-ran and Pantha's head goes flying off her shoulders like a cannonball.  Subtlety was not the strongsuit of this series.  Granted that may not be the fault of Johns but of the artist, but the reverse is true too: how do you know it wasn't the artist's idea to draw in those obscure Lanterns rather than Johns'?

Glad Bizarro's murderous act was off-panel, but just the fact that Bizarro kills tells me this isn't the book for me.  And anyway how embarassing would it be to be killed by freaking Bizarro?!

Yes, you are.

The point with Infinite Crisis is that, while it was crap, it was served nicely. It was printed on high-quality paper. If you thought the cover looked bad, you could buy an entirely different cover! If you wanted to see Pariah get stabbed in the gut, or see Psycho Pirate get his eyes smooshed out of the back of his head, you could. If you thought that Kal-L was returning to set things right, and then he didn't, you could pretend that Crisis on Infinite Earths never happened and move back to Earth-One. (That's what I did.)

If I were a mean, nasty terrorist, I would theoretically travel to Earth-Prime just to go to DC Comics and declare a jihad on it!

Actually, I thought the spoiler posts just made me not a fan of the story, it was seeing the panels on the web that me shake my head...

If history is anyway way of juding these things, unless you are reading a Alan Moore book, it is nearly always the artist's idea to sneak in little easter eggs for fans to catch.

Also, it seems that JulianPerez have not been clicking on links like the rest of us, since most of the important pages have been scaned and post on-line since issue 1.

So, we have all seen every single death and the few good spots here and there.

Like when Alex said...

"There are recorded rumors of Superman's activities before his appearance in Metropolis" - IC No. 7

So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss our opinions. There is no need for us to try and justify spending 27.93 (3.99 x 7) on that thing, I mean with that money I could have gotten about THREE Showcase books from Amazon and help charities and this site in the process.

I've already told you that my opinion is objectively the best opinion. So shut up.

How are the showcase books, by the way? I was thinking about buying some for my 6th grade class...

They are brilliant of course, but I think that the book wouldn't last very long in a 6th grade class.

I would buy one for yourself anyway.

The Showcase books are excellent, IMHO.  Superman and Green Lantern came out on really nice, heavy-grade white paper and still look the best out of all of them.  For my money, the best read so far is "Superman Family," nearly 500 pages of classic "Jimmy Olsen" stories with a few Lois Lane tales thrown in there at the end.

This Jimmy was a revelation to me: before Turtle-Boy, Elastic Lad, etc, Jimmy was a savvy, resourceful and courageous young cub reporter, and his stories are tons of fun.  If he'd been consistently written as such a competent young fellow I don't think Kirby's drastic re-imagining would have been necessary in 1970 (or so).  This is all the more surprising as the book was directly inspired by the TV show, where Jack Larson's portrayal of Jimmy put the character on the cultural map...and frankly Larson's Jimmy was pretty much of a boob.

The stories are short and sweet, and show much more range and variety than anything you'll find in modern superhero books.  Think Archie Andrews meets Hardy Boys and you're halfway there.  I don't know what modern 6th graders want out of a book, but when I was in 6th grade, I'd have loved this stuff.

After that, I recommend Green Lantern for solid sci-fi stories and an amazingly cohesive evolving mythos for Hal Jordan.  "Superman" is actually a bit of an acquired taste, as at this point its still halfway between the epic grandeur of the 60s Weisinger mythos and the goofy insanity of the 50s.  I'd call it children's stories but half the time it almost seems drug-induced.  The really choice stuff is still a volume or two away.

The only other one I have is House of Mystery, which is a mixed bag.  On the one hand, it would be a great chance to show kids the wonderful diversity of art styles that comics could once boast, with work by geniuses like Alex Toth, Jack Kirby, Neal Adams, Jack Sparling, Wally Wood, Bernie Wrightson, Joe Orlando and Sergio Aragones.  On the other hand, the stories are really hit and miss and range from effectively creepy to merely peculiar.  There's nothing I'd call really scary, though...which is kind of a drag.  On the other hand, there's nothing remotely gorey or gruesome, either.

The Shopwcase Books are great!  I picked up the GL and Superman editions. Some line droppage but nowhere near as much as the old Signet Superman.Batman paperbacks from the 60s.  

Good thing GL tells us that his powewr ring cant work because "such and such" is yellow!

That's why I was thinking about the Showcase ones, instead of bringing my Archive Editions to class. 2 cents a page vs. "Hey, where's the gold in this thing?" seems like a much better idea. Plus, If I buy a bunch of Showcase editions for my classroom, I can claim it as school expenses and then secretly read them anyway.  8)

I was thinking specifically about getting Green Lantern and Justice League.

well, as long as you try to minimize the damage, it might work out ok.

just plan for a whole lot of ripped pages is all.

I have read the book along with the rest of the mini-series. Honestly, I found it to be a highly inconsistant piece of garbage.

Complaints about the mini-series:

1. You mean to tell me that after all the hype and build-up in the pre-IC issues, that the entire point of Donna's space was just to blow off one of Alex Luthor's fingers?

2. Kal-L and Alex Luthor's deaths. They were killed off in ways that would make Tony Soprano proud.

3. The continuity glitches for Kal-L and SB Prime. I thought Johns was supposed to be a continuity cop.

4. SB Prime can move planets, yet Kon-El, Krypto, and Bart Allen can make him bleed.

5. The art. 'nuff said. Only the Ordway, Perez, and Reis pages seem to be finished. Why does Powergirl look like a transsexual?

6. Destroying Oa will restart the universe. Yeah, okay, then why didn't it happen when Kyle blew up the planet during a fight with Hal Jordan?

7. The raping of the characters of SB Prime and Alex Luthor. These characters sacrificed everything to save the universe and they get treated like this?

8. The JSA seemingly get their memories of Earth 2 restored and Kal-El gets the shaft once again. I though Didio said that IC would make clear that the current Supes is one in the same with the E1 Supes? Guess there was a miscommunication between Didio and Johns.

9. The new Earth is pretty much the same as the Post-Crisis Earth with a few changes. Been there. Done that. See Zero Hour for details.

10. Batman picks up a gun and almost uses it on Alex Luthor. Yeah, like I'm buying that.

11. A lame Batman villian kills off a guy that created a Paradise Dimension. Not buying that either.

12. Red sun radiation affecting SB Prime. Did Johns even bother to read SB Prime's previous appearances where he wasn't affect by red sun radiation?

13. How does SB Prime manage to freeze Green Lanterns that are already shielded again the cold of outer space?

14. How does SB Prime manage to talk in space?

15. Kon-El's death. Okay, why didn't Powergirl, the Martian Manhunter, or any of the other heroes on the scene take out the tower? Why did it specifically have to be Kon?

16. How does Nightwing manage to walk away from an explosion that kills a half-Kryptonian?

17. The world is going to hell, but Hal Jordan talks about baseball?

I did say Amazon right?

Showcase Presents: Justice League of America, Vol. 1
$11.04

Showcase Presents: Jonah Hex, Vol. 1
$11.04

No tax, and if you order $25 worth of stuff, it's free shipping. Order from this site and you help Christopher Reeve Paralysis Foundation. http://superman.nu/a/BookShop/



Again, since you didn't follow the links, you wouldn't have known that DC posted ALL the pages, from page one to right before the fight at Newsarama.

I still didn't like it.
Someone else then posted the deathscenes.

Wouldn't call the Joker "lame", but agree that whole scene was...

Imagine SB-Prime was using super-ventriloquism (a pre-Crisis Kryptonian power he'd presumably still have) to speak while out in space...

And wondering what sort of funeral or whatever Kal-L, someone unknown to most of the post-Crisis DCU, will get---some insulting "buried under a small pile of rocks on a distant planet a la 'Star Trek:Generations'" bit? Would like to think the death of the hero that started their whole company's superhero era deserved better than "being pumelled to death by some doppelganger teenaged version of himself" or a lame burial no one will care about...

You know, I don't know how often reality and the universe as we know it should be in danger, but the idea that it was because of teen angst seems particularly "WB" and trivial to me...there's more to comics than continuity anyways, and bringing back characters to serve this kind of storyline is worse than never bringing them back at all...

That might've been due to Marvel buying out Malibu to get said computer colorization (and also to prevent DC from doing so).

I remember being kind of turned off by the way Marvel's comics looked after they started using said Malibu computer colorization, and it took the Busiek/Perez AVENGERS to get me interested again.



McFarlane's still successful I guess, although supposedly his publishing part filed for bankruptcy or something.  But he's probably making enough on the toys (and apparently there's that second SPAWN/BATMAN crossover thing that also has a statue deal between DC Direct and McFarlane Toys/Statues/Whatever--that'd explain why McFarlane has the rights to make Hanna-Barbara toy-statues).

Oh, and I think Ellis is English, and Ennis is the one who's Irish (though yeah, Ellis was the one who mentioned the McFarlane-vocabulary thing).