You guys can't haave it both ways. If it's okay to Busiek and Johns to corrupt characters just to redeem then after in a herioc story, it should be okay to Bryne to. Infinite Crisis is not different than the Phanton Zone criminals execution story and later Exile in Space. Morrison and Waid stories are closer to Maggin in that aspect because their Superman would never fail. Ingnoring thar, it's not a discussion based on fact, but on favorite writers.
Did Superman kill people in IC, and I just forgot to pick up that issue? I'm pretty sure he didn't.
Though I'm absolutely sure that Superman was tempted to. When Batman said "The last time you ever inspired anybody, Superman, was when you were dead," if it was me, I would have given 'ol Bat-Dick a sock to the jaw that sends him halfway to Alpha Centauri.
"Bet you're 'inspiring' a lot of people now, huh?"The two situations are not remotely compatible.
One has a Superman that behaved extremely out of character in an overkill situation concocted by the writer to deliberately transfer an unsavory element to a heroic character for shock value.
As others have pointed out, the situation where Superman killed in the Pocket Universe, is a situation that only exists
because the writer created it. However, Johns did not create the situation Superman faced in INFINITE CRISIS; other writers did. He did
solve it, though and got the character through it. Johns did not create Bat-Dick; he got rid of Bat-Dick. He did not create Wonder Woman, Klingon; but you'll better believe he got her through that. The characters have been restored to their correct characterizations after gradual drift as a direct result of the events of INFINITE CRISIS.
The thing a lot of people miss about the Earth-2 Superman's actions, is that he was misguided in the series NOT because he was old-fashoined and irrelevant (the fact that he was such a part of the climax of the book suggests otherwise); he was misguided in the series because he does not believe it is possible for a character to continue to be a hero after missteps.
I for one, did not enjoy EMERALD TWILIGHT. In fact, if I ever get my hands on
real power, you'd better believe everyone involved is going to a labor camp. Still, I don't believe Hal is now permanently a villain and that he can't be accepted as a heroic character again.
Busiek had nothing to do with IC, that POS was all Johns fault, and yes he is just as bad as Bryne. Except that Johns just has really bad taste and no talent but otherwise seems like a nice guy while Byrne really is a supreme (BEEP) and he has no talent and the worse taste ever in all things in life.
Busiek took Johns' bloody remains and gave it dignity and respect.
Superman comics are now readable, that hasn't happen in about 20 years! Superman actually acts like Superman now, that hasn't happen in about 20 years! At least not in the Superman books.
oh, IMHO
By the way...what Geoff Johns book have you ever read, ever?
Specific examples, please. Vague summaries on another website do not count. By the way, I found it ironic as hell that the website that brought us our INFINITE CRISIS news was never questioned, but when they started dissing SUPERMAN RETURNS, suddenly everything they said became suspect.
I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, I'm just saying if you haven't read anything, you're not entitled to one at all.
When I come down on Gerry Conway, that's because I'm up to my armpits in Conway-smeared comics; from his cliche-ridden ARAK, SON OF THUNDER to his CRAPTACULAR SPIDER-MAN (it's not called that, but it should be).
I swear, Conway books are like cockroaches, they BREED. When somebody wants to sell me their comics, the conversation goes a little like this:
"Come on over, Julian. I have some great books by great writers. I have some of the Don MacGregor KILLRAVEN, the Doug Moench MASTER OF KUNG FU...and some other very interesting comics."" 'Some other very interesting comics?' Wait...you don't mean you have some Gerry Conway books, don't you?"
"Kkkkkkt! Whoa, can't hear you, the connection went bad there for a second..."( With all due apologies to X-Entertainment.
)