Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Well, Superman/Batman 12 is out and it does not look promising.

I won't say anything else about the issue in case there are people that have not read it yet, but it does not look promising.

On the other hand, there are hints and teases here and there.  Such as the alternate cover of S/B 13,  Eddie Berganza leaves hints on the Ask Eddie forum at the Superman home page:



And such.

So do we have a new Supergirl or not?  Is she Kara Zor-El or not?
And finally, if we DO....Who will write her and who will do the art?

Any thoughts?

Dylan

I just finished reading #12.  If this is true, and Kara is dead again, all I can say is...

Make Mine Marvel!

Don't worry in a year or two DC will bring another Kara back to life just to kill her yet again.

(http://www.dccomics.com/dcdirect/catalog/statue/images/pic_medturnersupergirl.jpg)

BEWARE -- HERE THERE BE SPOILERS!


Yesterday, I drove 30 miles to what was probably the only comic book store in the Greater Los Angeles area to have Superman/Batman #12 this week.  Granted, this was really only a small "side trip" from my REGULAR commute, but I'm not sure it was worth the few extra miles, especially with gasoline about $2.20 a gallon nowadays.

I was unmoved by the "climax" of this issue.  We are virtually guaranteed that Kara will somehow return in Issue #13 due to the alternate cover and $200 statue.  But what truly bothers me is that this quick"Zap, Kara's dead -- but she'll be better soon" is a tired ploy that only cheapens the sacrifice of ALL Supergirls, including the landmark Crisis on Infinite Earths #7.

Frankly, we know less about this new Kara than we did about CIR-EL, so why SHOULD we be touched by her leaping in front of Darkseid's beams?  Just because of her soulful doe-like eyes?  In fact, if I was Batman, I'd be even MORE paranoid.  This would be a great means for Darkseid to firmly plant a "mole" (either Kara's still an Apokolis agent, or will be replaced by one when "resurrected") -- Superman will NEVER question her loyalties after this.

Fans mourned the original Kara's death because they KNEW her -- she was one of the few DC characters who actually "grew up", graduated from high school, attended college, held a variety of jobs, etc.  And she was mostly depicted as the 'Girl Next Door" -- unlike Superman at times, Kara was very approachable in either Linda or Supergirl personas.  Love her or loathe her, Matrix became a familar personality prior to her sacrificing herself to save Linda, and Linda herself eventually won over readers prior to Many Happy Returns.  Likewise, we felt for the MHR Kara because we knew and dreaded what was in store for her.  Even CIR-EL had some character development, even if it was mainly "damage control"!  ;-)

In contrast, it's "Kara, we hardly knew ye."  Even though it's unfair to compare just five issues so far of Superman/Batman to the original's career (1959-1985), or to the Matrix/Linda years, we really don't have any clear impression of the new Kara.  (Probably because DC still doesn't know who she is!)  She seems to alternate between two bland stereotypes -- "Naive Innocent" and "Super-Britney".  Bleah.  The first Kara showed more of a winning personality, enthusiasm and heart in her first ISSUE -- and that was only eight pages!

The impact of Kara's Crisis death has been sadly dilluted by S/B #12.  We had early indications when Superman held Harbinger in a tasteless parody of the Crisis #7 cover.  (And it looks like Harbinger is really gone -- what a WASTE of a good supporting character.)  But the new Kara's "sacrifice" to save her cousin this time around has none of the grandeur of the original -- in fact, it's a tired melodrama cliche!  How many females have done the same thing?  And wouldn't the beams go right THROUGH her and strike Superman anyway?  Besides, there's posts in the DC Message Boards that indicate that Darkseid NEVER misses such a target.

Even though there were many omens about Kara's demise in the Crisis (as if the early release of the Crisis #7 cover art wasn't a BIG clue), there were fans still praying that it would turn out to be a hoax, a dream, or an Imaginary Story.  And her battle against the Anti-Monitor was classic -- she hadn't shown her full strength in years, and for a few glimmering moments there was hope that she could WIN!  Kara's fatal distraction was high tragedy, and the true pathos was that such a brave struggle was then FORGOTTEN.  That's what truly hirt her fans -- discovering that all her acts of kindness and love NEVER HAPPENED.

The present Supergirl's death is also "forgettable" but for entirely different reasons.  In fact, it's a FRAUD, even if we find out she was REALLY dead and not switched or transported at the last moment.  The death of Kara Zor-El during the Crisis was so earth-shaking and so permanent that only a GREAT story could undo this, and I'm not at all convinced that this qualifies.  But to then "kill" her off so casually and then "resurrect" her in the following issue is WORSE -- that's a faster "turnaround" time than it took SUPERMAN to come back from the dead!

I shed no tears for this CHARACTER, and for a Supergirl fan like me to remain so unmoved is not a good sign.  But I did weep for the CONCEPT of Supergirl, for it seems DC still has NO CLUE after all these years, and will only further mismanage the formerly-great Supergirl Legacy.

Well, now you know that she's back.  And I, for one, couldn't be happier.  (Unless, of course, they declared the original Supergirl hale and hearty, but that would retcon my own stories!)  

As for the prior Supergirl, PAD's Linda Danvers, he's almost admitted that she really is Fallen Angel.  I don't know if I like that or not, as her treatment is so much darker than her previous incarnation.  But I guess it's better to have her around like that than not to have her around at all.  (It's getting to the point where there are more Supergirls than there used to be Steve Trevors...)

It's nice to have SG back, even if it will take me a few years to read these new adventures --provided I can find them in a quarter bin somewhere.

SG is hale and hearty in the Justice League cartoon show, and seems to have a following among young fans of that show, so the sky's the limit as far as her potential longevity in this incarnation.

Darkmark90 -- if DC ever returns the original Kara Zor-El (unlikely though this might be) you can always claim that your character was a nearly-identical Hypertime variant.  If we assume that Hypertime existed prior to the Crisis (the entire Multiverse actually residing in one Hypertimeline), then there were countless other Karas -- some virtual twins, others strikingly different.  And since Hypertimelines diverge at critical points in history, the battle between Supergirl and the Anti-Monitor probably spawned multiple possibilites.  Your own stories explored one such divergent outcome.  

On other message boards I've proposed two other scenarios -- what if Superwoman Kristen Wells participated in the Crisis?  (a dimensional portal opening between Kara and the Anti-Monitor in the nick of time), or what if Supergirl was replaced in mid-fight by her "stunt double" -- a certain actress from the now-destroyed world of Earth-Prime who voluntarilly re-assumed her debut movie role?

As for Linda, I would also be sorry to see her confirmed as the Fallen Angel, but going through "Many Happy Returns" would have destroyed many people.  Recall that Linda drew upon the evil surrounding Lord Xenon's castle to destroy him, and that act alone could have darkened her.  Even Linda noted that at that point she "wasn't human anymore".  And if she's still drawing upon that source, that could explain Linda's descent.  Also, we may have seen a foreshadowing of "Lee" when Linda knocked Kara out and sent her to certain death.

Hmm... looking over my previous post (prior to Superman/Batman #13), I have to add more comments.  Even though Kara's "sacrifice" was revealed as a clever ploy, I'm still dissatisfied.  Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by this switcheroo, since we've seen previous heavy-handed reader manipulations (Kara's "kidnapping" by Wonder Woman, Superman holding Harbinger's body a la Crisis #7, etc.), but it rang hollow.  Comparing this incident with the original Death of Supergirl reminds me of the saying:  "The first is a tragedy, the second's a farce."

And it WAS a farce!  The whole thing was a scripted joke to fool Darkseid?  Please.  Granted, Kara showed real bravery dashing in front of Superman EVEN if she knew beforehand -- so many things could have gone wrong, with fatal results to both her AND Superman.  But to me, this play-acting (going so far as Batman collecting her "ashes") turned the first Kara's death into a tasteless charade.  And don't get me STARTED on how Wonder Woman could have teleported Kara at PRECISELY the right nanosecond, and then substituted dust for special effects.  And where did those Omega Beams go?

OK, now she's here, and even Batman's (sorta) convinced Kara's a bona fide Kryptonian cousin of Superman.  NOW WHAT?  After five issues she's still pretty much a blank slate -- I had a firmer conception of the original Kara Zor-El after only eight PAGES of Action #252.  This vagueness surrounding Supergirl's characterization tends to support the idea that she was indeed a "rush job" approved only after the success of the "Many Happy Returns" trade paperback (and the near-universal rejection of Cir-El) late last year.  Thus, Superman/Batman was simply a means to introduce a new face and costume -- it will be left for other writers to flesh out her character.  This "Supergirl By Committee" frankly worries me.  Her costume is already a hodgepodge of earlier styles, with extra gaudy touches like that "Marvel-ous" gold-edged cape.  I'm afraid her personality might also resemble a Frankenstein monster of mis-matched parts crudely sewed together.

In Kara's speech at the conclusion of Superman/Batman #13, it's hinted that she will be making the "DC Universe World Tour" soon, possibly making guest appearances in Teen Titans, Outsiders, JLA, JSA and maybe more.  Some titles might not be a truly complementary match.  And there's always the danger that different authors won't resist the temptation to place their own distinctive "stamp" onto a brand new character.  Unless there's coordination between writers, we might see wildly different interpretations of Kara among her "guest shots".  Such "multiple personalities" fail to serve a character well, especially when early impressions can mean joyous fan acceptance or disgusted rejection.

We just have to wait and pray for the best.  I'm hopeful about Geoff Johns, since he's shown to be sensitive about classic characters.  and I'd love to see what Gail Simone would do -- imagine the new Kara meeting the former Batgirl, Barbara Gordon...

I boght Bats/S 13 for the Kara cover alone...let's see if they can separate me from more $ :wink:

Point to Ponder: re-reading the Kara arc I couldn't help but wonder, why she wasn't affected by all the kryptonite near her landing site in the bottom of the bay?  This is still a lot about this new Supergirl to be discovered.

My brain hurts! :D

Hyper-time?  Name changes?  Blank slate? Ret-cons?

Why do I feel that the kids who watch the Justice League tv show are enjoying the character without any of this?

Because they ARE kids, Telle -- for the most part they haven't been exposed to the "Supergirl heritage", nor does that matter much. To them, the animated Kara In-Ze is THEIR Supergirl, which is why DC forced Linda to abandon the "classic look" and don that cropped t-shirt costume late in her series.

But you know what?  I don't mind at all if these kids accept Kara In-Ze.  In the animated cartoon and related comic book she is a perfectly legitimate Supergirl with an origin that actually works better than the "flying Argo City" of yore (which originally didn't even have a pressure dome to keep the air in!)  And she has a sassy but appealling personality -- essentially sweet, but with a "hip" contemporary style that's not too "edgy".  Right now I'd prefer her to the current Kara Zor-El, who hasn't really shown much of a personality.

Yes, they're enjoying this Kara In-Ze, just like older fans enjoyed earlier Supergirls.  But one day these grown-up fans will be griping about what DC did to their beloved Kara In-Ze, just like some of us still haven't come to terms with Crisis #7 or the end of "Many Happy Returns".

"In every generation there is one..."  No, I'm not talking Buffy here.  There's been Kara Zor-El I, Matrix, Linda Danvers, Kara In-Ze and now Kara Zor-El II.  While I wish the newest Supergirl a long and successful career, inevitably there WILL be another down the line.  And fans of preceeding Supergirls (including today's kids) will be struggling to reconcile their own favorite character with the current DC Universe.

Superman is unaging (eternally frozen at around 29), but Supergirls aren't so fortunate.  But it is the "Spirit of Supergirl" that is truly immortal, waiting to inspire the next bright-eyed maiden (whether Kryptonian, Earth Angel, Argoan or whomever) to take up the "S" mantle.  And thus the Supergirl Legacy will continue on, constantly revitalized and developed with each generation.

That was my point.  It shouldn't matter to us either.  I think most of us (including many writers and editors) bring too much baggage to the character and can't enjoy an obviously well-designed update like the current cartoon incarnation.
From what I understand (I haven't read any SG since Crisis), Peter David was trying to graft a new character of his own onto Supergirl.  Other writers have been trying to get around the DC rule of "only one Kryptonian" in similar ways.  In future, they should stick to versions of the current (read: original) model.

Many of us that have been around since the 60s reading comics are enjoying most of the JLU cartoon versions alot better than the current comics incarnations I expect . Why can The bloody cartoon get so much more right than the comics can lately?

I'm glad they brought the character back.  I didn't like the Peter David Linda Danvers Supergirl.  I hope they find a place to feature her on a regular basis.  I miss the old backup features because they used to be a good home for characters who couldn't hold their own book.