Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Superman Comic Books! => Superman! => Topic started by: PatrickG on February 11, 2005, 03:38:52 AM



Title: Save Superman
Post by: PatrickG on February 11, 2005, 03:38:52 AM
Alright, I admit I'm disturbed not just by Identity Crisis but by the wave of trends it's sparked. Marvel has announced that Wolverine will rape one of the X-Men.

There was an attempt in the form of BIRTHRIGHT to streamline and renew classic elements of Superman's classic origin. And though it stands as the "official" origin in place of "Man of Steel" now, I fear that the overall trend in comics is based on the misconception that darkness and realism are somehow more human than flights of fantasy. BIRTHRIGHT, due to lackluster support in its initial release, is something of a lameduck origin story. Even though Jor-El and Lara appear in colorful costumes in flashbacks now and DC acknowledges that Superman was born on Krypton, the overall tone that the company is taking seems unfairly dark.

There is one major bright spot the way I see things. The ALL-STAR SUPERMAN project by Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely. I know Frank's art isn't everyone's cup of tea but I think it's essential that this 12 issue maxi-series not be swept under the rug or ignored. DC is not treating it as official continuity but I think this may be our one chance to unite and show DC that bright, fun comics outsell gritty realism, that there is a larger audience.

I'm thinking of organizing some kind of 'Buycott' to show support for this project. I'm considering cutting back on my monthly books and instead starting a monthly pull list for five or more copies of "All-Star" a month. I plan to give these out to new readers.

Let me give you some quotes by Morrison to help sell the idea, copied from Newsarama:

"I don't think we need to 'make' Superman relevant. We just have to tell stories which resonate with human experience. The best Superman stories are fables about love, pride, shame, fear, death, friendship etc. We can all relate to those big issues. Superman stories should represent huge, basic human dramas and human emotions, played out on a larger than life canvas."

"I wish pop comics today had the balls to be as poetic and poignant and truly 'all-ages' again, and a little less self-conscious."

"So, I'm still not sure about 'realistic' comics. Sales are always crap when comics get 'realistic' and sales are particularly crap right now, considering the wide-ranging public acceptance of superhero stories in other media. So Frank and I are keeping modern sensibilities in mind while trying to make sure that each of our stories addresses some basic human fear or need in a big, colorful, comic book way. We hope to produce a collection of science fiction folk tales with Superman at the heart of them. I like to think of these stories as 'relevant' to the human condition although not necessarily relevant to the current headlines, if you see what I mean. The All Star Superman is intended to appeal to a wide audience of diverse people for a long time, like the Greek myths."

"We're using the leeway the All-Star concept gives us to take the best elements from every era of Superman and use them to build a whole new world and direction for the character. I'm certainly looking at this as my definitive statement."


A bit of a glimpse into the series itself:

"The first issue 'Fasterů' starts with Superman attempting to rescue the first manned spaced mission to the sun! An overdose of solar radiation triggers a fatal chain reaction in his cell structure, P.R.O.J.E.C.T. specialists race to create a new Superman and...well, you'll have to wait and see.

The Fortress appears in issue #2, stuffed with a ton of new toys and gets haunted by the bandaged ghost of the Unknown Superman of 4500 AD. The Kandorians finally get out of that bottle. Superman gets a new power. Clark Kent winds up sharing a prison cell with Lex Luthor in issue #5. The Bizarro Cube Earth invades our world in an epic 2-part adventure (no 'decompression' here!) and we're recasting the Bizarros as a frightening, unstoppable zombie-plague style menace. Bizarro Jor-El and the Bizarro JLA turn up in the second part of that story too. What else? We meet Earth's replacement Superman and Clark Kent takes on a new superhero identity...Ten of the 12 issues are complete short stories in 22 pages, so lots of stuff happens. And it all links together as a maxi-arc or whatever they call them these days, entitled 'The 12 Labors of Superman'.

Superman's Rogues Gallery is pretty weak, so I've tried to add some characters I think might enhance the mix. Solaris, the Tyrant Sun from the DC 1 Million series gets a makeover and a return visit, and I figured Superman could use a 'Subhuman' counterpart, so I've created Krull, an evolved dinosaur dictator who rules a monstrous civilization at the center of the earth. He's only in the story for a few pages but the concept is strong and feels like one that could be used again. Then there's the Abominable Snowman, a tragic scientist who's a bit like a refrigerated Incredible Hulk and turns up for a couple of pages. Superman needs some good tough monsters to fight, so I've tried to think along those lines. In most cases, the villains only get walk-on roles in this one, however. Overall, the series is more about Superman's relationships with his friends and with the world than anything else.

People know my stuff and I'm sure they can guess what to expect. It's going to be big, bold sci-fi Superman for 12 issues."


Want a glimpse of Morrison's take on Superman? Try this quote from Morrison's JLA: CLASSIFIED #3 where Superman dresses down a paramillitary team of super-heroes who kill:

"Don't you realize, death is no object to most of the enemies we deal with? Quite frankly, as an alternative to some of the super-punishments we've had to devise over the years -- Execution's a walk in the park. These "No-Nonsense" solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time-travel."

This, to me, is Superman. The real Superman. He speaks with moral authority. He lives in a fantastic world where Bizarros live on a cube shaped planet. Luthor's in prison. The love triangle between Superman, Clark and Lois is in full swing. And the adventures are grand.

I don't want DC to have ANY excuse to label this a failure. I want to show them that doing Superman RIGHT will draw a bigger audience than killing him or deconstructing him or throwing skeletons in his closet. This is Superman... We just have to show DC that this is how the real world sees Superman, how we want to see Superman. Show them that no bloodshed or reimagining or realism can compare with a Superman who makes us all feel eight years old.

Thank you.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Super Monkey on February 11, 2005, 08:06:14 AM
Thank you and welcome to the site :s:


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Klar Ken T5477 on February 11, 2005, 08:12:54 AM
I concur and am saving my shekels to give ALL STAR a shot.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Kuuga on February 11, 2005, 07:31:58 PM
I'm afraid that one of the major things that hurt Birthright will hurt All-Star. Namely the artist. In Batmans case, the writer.

Still though, excellent post. Bravo!


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Bill 9000 on February 11, 2005, 08:18:33 PM
I'm willing to give "All-Star Superman" the benefit of the doubt. As Grant Morrison says, it's about time someone had the balls to write Superman the way everyone wants him to be written.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Just a fan on February 11, 2005, 10:56:12 PM
Quote
Alright, I admit I'm disturbed not just by Identity Crisis but by the wave of trends it's sparked. Marvel has announced that Wolverine will rape one of the X-Men.
 Where did you read or hear about this?


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: NotSuper on February 12, 2005, 10:18:05 PM
Personally, I'm looking forward to BOTH All-Star Superman and All-Star Batman and Robin. Morrison and Miller are two writers many fans have wanted to see write Superman and Batman again for a while now. And just think, they'll have much less restrictions in terms of continuity.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Kuuga on February 13, 2005, 02:22:25 AM
Quote from: "NotSuper"
Personally, I'm looking forward to BOTH All-Star Superman and All-Star Batman and Robin. Morrison and Miller are two writers many fans have wanted to see write Superman and Batman again for a while now. And just think, they'll have much less restrictions in terms of continuity.


I seriously doubt Miller can be trusted to write an iconic, all audiences version of the character which is what All Stars mission is supposed to be. Esepcially not when he' touting that it'll be part of his DKR universe.  If this Batman is the psychopathic yutz from DKR and DK2 then I don't really have alot of hope for it.

Morrison I have alot of faith in, but like Waid DC shouldn't be letting the writer pick the artist because they obviously both have bad eyes.

The idea that they're wanting to make Supermans cape as short as Captain Marvels doesn't fill me with confidence either.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: NotSuper on February 13, 2005, 03:35:50 AM
Quote from: "Kuuga"
I seriously doubt Miller can be trusted to write an iconic, all audiences version of the character which is what All Stars mission is supposed to be. Esepcially not when he' touting that it'll be part of his DKR universe.  If this Batman is the psychopathic yutz from DKR and DK2 then I don't really have alot of hope for it.

Morrison and Miller clearly have very different agendas for their respective character. Morrison wants the Superman who had fantastic adventures where anything was possible and there was a sense of hope. Miller, on the other hand, has always written Batman as very dark and violent. I like both of those interpretations, as crazy as that sounds.

Miller is my second-favorite Batman writer, just below Denny O'Neil. I LOVED Y1 and DKR (but I greatly disliked DKSA). My only complaint with Miller's portrayal of Batman is that he makes him far too antagonistic towards Superman. The two should certainly argue over methods (sometimes even heatedly) but should always have a mutual respect and friendship with one another. Superman should admire the fact that Batman does all the things he does without any powers. Batman, on the other hand, should admire Superman for the hope he instills in people and for all the times he saved the planet.

That's just my opinion, though.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: King Krypton on February 21, 2005, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: "Kuuga"
I'm afraid that one of the major things that hurt Birthright will hurt All-Star. Namely the artist. In Batmans case, the writer.


Frank Miller is, in my mind, the very reason Batman's been unreadable since 1986. His ultra-psycho near-villain take on the character grates on my nerves.

As for Birthright, I'll admit that Leinil Francis Yu's art isn't for everyone. But it's hardly the reason why the book was slaughtered when it came out. First off, DC couldn't make up its mind if the book was "Ultimate Superman" or the new official origin, and they didn't decide until the series was almost over. Secondly, the book got little to no promotional support from DC, espeiclaly since they were touting the Byrne version's arrival in TPB during Birthright's publication. And thirdly--and most importantly--a gaggle of fanatical Byrne-supporters campaigned viciously against the book simply because it changed the origin away from Byrne, going so far as to spread hate against the book across the 'Net at every opportunity. (The ringleader of the bunch, a guy called "Man of the Atom" went so far as to claim that Siegel and Shuster got Superman all wrong in the first place and that only the Byrne/Jurgens incarnation from 1986-1999 is "the ONE TRUE SUPERMAN" or "the GOOD version of Superman.") It was attacked simply because it wasn't Byrne's vision. And the attacks paid off.

Will All-Stars meet the same fate? Possibly. Already the hardcore Byrne followers (who've earned some very fitting--if harsh--group names) are crying "Silver Age" and calling the book "outdated Scooby-Doo tripe," whilst propping up "cool, interesting" junk like Chuck Austen and Brian Azzarello's "For Tomorrow" (which most other folks can't understand). The Iron Age won't end so long as some fans refuse to let comics evolve out of it. And some fans are bent on making sure the Iron Age remains permanent, and have said as much. I should know, because I've butted heads with them at various newsgroups.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Kuuga on February 21, 2005, 11:23:26 PM
Man the internet must be shrinking. I've seen MOTA in action as well...


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: King Krypton on February 21, 2005, 11:28:23 PM
Quote from: "Kuuga"
Man the internet must be shrinking. I've seen MOTA in action as well...


Did he pull the "Siegel and Shuster got Superman all wrong; Byrne know the character better than they did" line on you, too?


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: NotSuper on February 21, 2005, 11:54:39 PM
Quote from: "Kuuga"
Man the internet must be shrinking. I've seen MOTA in action as well...

MOTA is infamous among those who frequent comic message boards because of his trollish behavior. I too have had the misfortune of coming into contact with him.

The good news is that he was banned from the DC Message Boards after calling Gail Simone a name I won't bother repeating here. As far as I'm concerned, his banning was a long time coming.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Super Monkey on February 22, 2005, 01:03:58 AM
well, don't give him the time of day here folks, nobody cares or should care about what someone like that thinks, so just let it go and have fun here.


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: Daybreaker on February 24, 2005, 03:32:54 PM
I like Grant Morrison a lot, so I'm looking forward to this.  However, I get a somewhat different feeling as to what's going to happen, style-wise.  Morrison is not a fluffy-bunny kind of writer.  I'd say he's way over on the Frank Miller end of the spectrum (which I mean as a compliment -- but then I haven't read The Dark Knight Strikes Again yet).


Title: Re: Save Superman
Post by: NotSuper on February 26, 2005, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: "Daybreaker"
I'd say he's way over on the Frank Miller end of the spectrum (which I mean as a compliment -- but then I haven't read The Dark Knight Strikes Again yet).

I'd recommend that you don't read it. It's nowhere near the level of greatness that we saw in DKR and Y1.