Superman Through the Ages! Forum

DC Comics Presents

Some reasons to include it:
Some reasons not to include it:

Please vote and add your comments!

:s:

Some.

I really have NO knowledge firsthand of these issues...
BUT..

some of the characters and incidents were later to be seen as canoical. So I say...Some..but be selective.

As per what Bill9K said.

Kinda wishy washy on my part, eh? :wink:

I went with "some of them", which is the closest to my actual opinion about this subject. The entire run of DCCP should be included, but those issues that Starchild mentioned should be ignored.

Sorry Rao, I know you prefer an all-or-nothing approach, and I can see why.  But I also voted "some."  I'd stick with just the annuals.

I also wonder if we even want to get into the whole Earth-1 and Earth-2 thing.  As Nightwing pointed out, Fleisher approached the work as if it was all one Superman, one Luthor, etc. remaining ageless through the years.   Splitting characters into multiple versions would be a big mess.

Perhaps we could handle it the way Fleisher does, and just say something like, "...where Luthor encounters a version of himself from a parallel dimension" or "an alternate dimension" or something like that. I'm pretty sure I've already seen him do this somewhere.

Ditto what Starchild said.  I suggest we approach it like Fleisher approached his non-canonical sources (like the newspaper strip, Batman comics, etc).

Can anyone name 5 first appearances or major stories from DCCP?

Mongul - DC Comics Presents #'s 27, 28, 36 and 43

The Atomic Skull - DC Comics Presents #'s 35 and 50

Superwoman - DC Comics Presents Annual #'s 1 and 4

Shazam - DC Comics Presents #'s 33, 34 and 49; DC Comics Presents Annual #4

The Adult Pete Ross - DC Comics Presents #'s 13 and 14

The Santa Claus one (because it's just wrong) and all issues after #85 (because that's when the series starts to cross over with Crisis) should be excluded. DC Comics Presents is most notable for giving the world Superwoman and Mongul.

what no He-Man? ;)

Well ... maybe we can forget about that one, too. Can you imagine what kind of mayhem would be unleashed if Orko got together with Mxyzptlk?  :shock:  :lol:

I see that I'm the lone (so far) voter for "All". Not that I consider them to all be canonical, but I also don't consider all of any other 1938-1986 series to be canonical. I seem to recall a Superman/Dr. Fate crossover in World's Finest Comics where Kent Nelson had made a career move from archaeologist to surgeon. The problem with "Some" is that someone (read "Great Rao") must decree which are to be included and which are to be excluded.

It appears I'm also in the minority on the Earth-One/Earth-Two concept, because I think it should be included. I doubt Fleisher ever made mention of it, since he only covered 1938-1964. Superman, Action Comics, & World's Finest Comics ran uninterrupted from the Golden Age through 1964. Unlike the case of the Flash, there was no need to explain the appearance of a new Superman. Of course, after the JLA/JSA team-ups began it became clear that there must be an Earth-Two Superman.

I suggest that Justice League of America, All-Star Comics (both Golden Age and Bronze Age), and even All-Star Squadron should also be included. The articles can point out where these stories differ from previously established facts. (Of course, in the case of All-Star Squadron that would be practically the whole series.)

I think that Earth-2 Superman should be included, his stories appear on this very site!

http://superman.nu/a/History/e2-superman.php

http://superman.nu/tales2/wife/

http://superman.nu/tales2/e2-origin/

Gotta have Earth 1& 2 - what would Julie say if we didn't?! :shock:

I voted an unashamed "Yes, all the issues should be included".  Really, what's the matter with DCCP #67?  Don't you believe in Santa Claus?   :wink:

(Confession time:  as a kid I thought it was rather neat that there were TWO secret bases in the Arctic.  And who would dare disturb the Jolly Old Elf if his workshop was NEXT DOOR to Superman's Fortress of Solitude?)

Seriously, I have deep reservations over arbitrarilly "picking and choosing" specific issues of a series.  While it is an editor's prerogative -- nay, DUTY -- to screen out unsuitable material, this project poses a big question:  Will this "Supermanica" be a COMPLETE and COMPREHENSIVE reference of the "Pre-Crisis" Superman, or simply reflecting what a relatively small contingent of online fans CONSIDER "canon"?

I assume many who frequent this site are unabashed Silver/Bronze Era Superman fans.  We have staunchly defended "traditional" Superman themes and elements such as a Kryptonian Supergirl, a "Buck Rogers Sci-Fi" Krypton, a Super-Menagerie of Pets, a miniaturized and bottled Kandor and the Superman Emergency Squad against a generation (and more) of derisive Byrne followers.  But now that we set out to create a massive online reference on our favorite Man of Steel, have we suddenly become self-conscious and embarrassed about a few "less-than-serious" stories?  If so, what else do we self-censor?  The Super-Sons?  Super-Pets?  Every "Imaginary Story"?  I always disliked that prankster Mr. Mxyzptlk -- should we now proclaim that his stories "never happened"?  And frankly who are WE to say, "This is the TRUE Superman, this isn't..."?

Folks, if I wanted a totally serious (if not absolutely dreary) Superman, I'd cross over and join the Iron Agers.  Humor was an essential element of the positive and optimistic nature of the Silver Age.  The burdens of the world did not weigh down the Man of Tomorrow -- he could even smile at his own expense at times.  It was certainly reassuring to know that the Most Powerful Man in the Universe didn't take himself too seriously all the time.

If we want to celebrate the ENTIRE Silver/Bronze Age Superman, then use everything, "warts and all".  What some fans consider abyssmally hokey, contrived and overly-sentimental is considered by others to be an essential part of Superman's enduring charm.  IF something just "doesn't fit", then make an editorial footnote briefly explaining why in an objective manner.  A story belonging in the "gray area" between Crisis and the Reboot can be simply identified as such.  Obvious contradictions could be tactfully pointed out with brief supporting citations.  Other oddities might be flagged with an explanation of its context.

So, let's examine DC Comics Presents.  The appearance of Santa Claus in #67 is a prime example of how DC heroes interacted with the Christmas holidays ("Christmas with the Superheroes" being the most obvious instance).  It also reflected some of the whimsy that occasionally surfaced in the DC Universe.  He-Man in #47 could be portrayed as just another "alternate universe" crossover, while final issue #97 could be warped due to the temporal uncertainties of the Crisis.  (The contradictions between DCCP #97 and "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" might be explained by the fact that the latter tale even proclaimed itself to be "An Imaginary Story".)  In any case, whatever happened in DCCP #97 was immediately "retconned" by The Man of Steel, so whether events really DID happen as portrayed is moot.

Thus, I say keep all of DC Comics Presents, but at least note which issues occurred post-Crisis.  Besides Superwoman's adventures, DC Comics Presents was the main source for Superboy-Prime and Superman's great-grandfather Var-El.  And didn't the Global Guardians debut in DCCP #46?  Finally there was the great battle with Mongul and the immediate aftermath in #27-29, where Supergirl nearly dies after performing the most astonishing exhibition of her true strength prior to the Crisis -- performing a kamikaze dive right THROUGH Mongul's Warworld!  I think Supermanica would be sorely lacking without these tales -- ALL of them.

Perhaps I'm being so adamant about DC Comics Presents because JUST TODAY I finally completed my collection.  (HOORAY!)   :D   And I actually have Annual #1 (featuring Superman, Luthor and Lois from Earth-1, 2 AND 3!) sitting next to my scanner.  But if we feel DC Comics Presents is unworthy of consideration, well...   :twisted:

He'd probably say "Include them or I'll slap you in the head!" I would.  :twisted:  :wink:

There is a Santa entry in Fleisher.  A story from the 1940s.

Well, I guess we can add Santa this x-mas ;)

BTW, I change my mind and I now think that all DCP issues that star Superman which happen before crisis should count.

If they happened before the crisis then I think they should be included, afterall even tho some were humorous in nature they are part of the myth.  What I don't think we need to include are the "Imaginary" stories, since these were always "May or not happen"

I don't have it handy so I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that Fleisher included the imaginary stories.  I'll double check.

No IMAGINARY STORIES?!!! (aren't they all?) :wink:

We should and we must IMHO.

Presented as "alternative/parallel world" chronicles from the 8th Dimension, perhaps ? :s:

Yes, they must be included! But they should be clearly stated as such of course.

Yup - cause so many great Wesinger era tales were IMAGINARY in nature - "Death of Superman' "Red&Blue".

Unless, of course, Batman is feeding data into the Super-Univac to show what Kal's life on Krypton would've been if it hadnt exploded. :wink:

"This is an imaginary story...
Aren't they all?"

Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"


"All Stories are Imaginary.
But some Stories are more Imaginary than others..."

With apologies to George Orwell's "Animal Farm"   :wink:


Why not have a Supermanica entry (or perhaps an entire section) entitled "Imaginary Stories", with brief summaries of noteworthy Imaginary Stories?  This keeps the Imaginary Stories outside the "official" canon, yet included in the overall Supermanica.  These Imaginary Stories were an essential part of the Silver Age Superman "experience", including what might be the best and more famous of them all, "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"  Certainly we HAVE to include it somewhere.

By the way, Klar Ken T5477, I actually have that comic where the Super-Univac shows Kal's possible future on Krypton.  I really wasn't that impressed, though it is a good example of an early Imaginary Story.  Do you think this should be scanned?

The very 1st one was done in 1942 and here it is: http://superman.nu/tales3/cartoonhero/

DTO,
I have the Superman annual thatthat "Life on Krypton" tale appeared in as well.  The reproduction in the annuals a little muddy but if you have a favorite panel that illustrates the feeling of the story,  go for it. Mine is "I picked a name up out of thin air..." LOL

SM,
An Imaginary Stories category is a great idea.  Id have to include "The Three Wives of Superman" - a real tear jerker fropm the pages of LL. The Fleischer tie in was a real treat when I first saw that in an annual as well.  Imagine plunking down a mere quarter for all that super-goodness back in the day!

As fars as posting the Krypton-Univac story here at STTAS, that's the domain of the great and glorious RAO.   :s:

I guess it's official. DC Comics Presents and its annuals are now part of Supermanica's canonical sources. Who-Hoo! I'll get started on Mongul's entry now. :wink:

Supermonkey must have cast the "swing" vote.  :lol:

Klar Ken T5477, I have a somewhat worn copy of Superman #132 -- is that the story you're referring to, or was that annual a reprint?  I was slightly disappointed in that I wanted to see more of Kal-El's little brother Zal-El, but the El family tragedy seemed horribly contrived even by Silver Age standards.

Hooray!  DC Comics Presents makes the cut!  As promised, I've already scanned and formatted half of Annual #1 and sent five GIFs to Great Rao for approval.  If the quality passes muster, I'll send the rest ASAP.  I always liked this story, as it clearly demonstrates the key personality differences between the Earth-1, 2 and 3 versions of Superman/Ultraman, Lois and Luthor.  This was also the debut of Dr. Alexander Luthor -- Earth-3's first superHERO!  Plus a lengthy discussion on the last page concerning the multiple Earths -- too bad that only three years later all this would vanish with the Crisis.

Blame it on the super-univac, Dto. Probably powered by a  Brainiac 12 the level processor. :wink: