Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Okay, everyone knows what the purpose of the All Star line is. Now if you were in charge of the whole sheebang, who would be *your* All Stars?

SUPERMAN: Paul Dini, Ed McGuiness. Paul is one of the few people I've seen who knows how to handle Superman just right.  I think perhaps even moreso than what he did with Batman, he nailed what is easily the most balanced version of the character ever presented. Even Pre and Post Crisis fanboys can agree on STAS not to mention that casual viewers often speak fondly of the show.  So I think combined with the energy of Eds art could bring that to the table only amplified because there would not be the limitations of animation to consider.  Perhaps for their stint they could use the last episode as a starting point.

BATMAN: Matt Wagner, Jim Lee. Basically think Batman the animated and TNBTA series in terms of tone, to some degree look and striking a much needed balance between the dark mood of Batman and the superhero action adventure.  Batman is haunted but not psychotic and is a true hero. I liked the way Wagner handled Batman in Trinity, and I think he would be right at home work within this kind of tone for Batman.

WONDER WOMAN: (I would like to see a female writer on this book but sadly I cannot think of a name), Terry Dodson.  First of all, if there is one thing I am so sick of seeing is Wonder Woman weilding axes and swords and all this other generic Xena type stuff.  Her name is Wonder Woman, not warrior woman. Stop writing her like a cross between Mother Teresa and a Klingon. What I would like to do is be able to strike a balance between The Wonder Woman tv show and Spirit of Truth. A sense of fun and stranger in a strange land while at the same time giving the character the stature that she needs. Her lasso is the only weapon she should ever need because combined with her other powers and the fact that it compels one not to lie, not even to themselves. She not only has all she needs to fight, but she can also cut through the crap and reach a dialog.  I picked Dodson because, of course I like the way he draws women but also I think he could handle what i'd be looking for out of this title.

JUSTICE LEAGUE: Jeph Loeb, Alan Davis. Jeph can do big budget event movie vibe and Alan Davis can deliver on breathtaking and beautiful renditons of a huge cast of superheroes.  In order to keep the line organized this would also be *the* book to go to in order to see the rest of the DC Universe icons.  This book needs to feel like Mount Olympus of the superhero world. Remember the old DC ad line? "Where Legends Live". That's this book.

TEEN TITANS: Todd Nauck. With animated series line up and ages but drawn in the artstyle he used for Young Justice. A real sense of fun to the book balanced with only a subtle and healthy dose of teen angst and the weight of knowing that one day, these young heroes will inherit the future. In their hearts they want to live up to the legacy but also want to forge a name for themselves out of the shadow of the Justice League. Are the ready? Are they worthy?

LEGION OF SUPERHEROES: Mark Farmer, Ed Benes.  Something along the lines of what he was doing in Superboys Legion only without the requsite gory character deaths that Elseworld futures tend to have.  Legion is one of the few places outside of Star Trek where the future was presented as something wonderful to look foward to.

I think many of the recent Bizarro creators would be awesome as regular cartoonists on DC books, especially:

1.Gilbert and Jaime Hernandez (I'd love to see them on any of the big three or on the Legion --Jaime Hernandez can draw great girls and they also have a retro vibe that I think the Legion needs).

2.Kyle Baker --great on Plastic Man, maybe great on something else?

3.Trina Robbins learned everything she knows from Harry Peters and deserves more Wonder Woman work.

First of all, I think the All-Star line should have continuity from one writer to the next, and I think all the characters should exist in the same universe. Basically, the future writers would follow what Morrison and Miller have already lain down. I would also release each of these titles sparingly, not at the same time.

SUPERMAN: Mark Waid, Barry Kitson. This writer-artist team is doing very nice work on the new Legion of Super-Heroes title. I think Waid and Kitson could create a Superman that would both be loved by fans and make money for DC. I believe a few of the reasons Birthright didn't sell as well as it should have was because of DC's lack of advertising and the fact that the artwork was very polarizing (you either loved or hated it--I loved it). Still, I want Waid to get a chance to shut his detractors up once and for all. I would give Waid six issues to tell his story.

After Waid and Kitson leave, I would bring in the team of Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch. Both of these guys are big pre-Crisis Superman fans who can draw fans to any title that they work on. I would give them twelve issues to do their thing.

BATMAN: Denny O'Neil, Neal Adams. This was a very easy choice for me. Bringing back the legendary team that brought Batman out of his campy rut and made him a dark avenger again would be good business and strike a chord with fans. I'm sure there are many ideas Denny O'Neil wishes he could do in current continuity, but can't because of certain factors, he could use those ideas in this title. And Neal Adams could use his plans to revamp Batman's costume to make it more believable. I would give them twelve issues to do this.

After their run I would have the team of Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale take over. I've very much enjoyed their take on the Dark Knight in the past, and would love to see them on this title. This team would also get twelve issues.

One thing I WOULD change is Robin's costume, specifically the elf shoes and short-shorts. I would give him a costume similar to the one he wore in the animated series (Dick's costume, not Tim's).

WONDER WOMAN: Matt Wagner, Alan Davis. I LOVED the work Matt Wagner did with Wonder Woman in Trinity and I believe he can work his magic again. Alan Davis is an artist who I feel could best bring out Wagner’s vision for the character. These two would get six issues to tell their story.

After their run, I’d put Gail Simone and Ariel Olivetti on the title. Wonder Woman needs a woman’s touch and someone who understands the female psyche, which Gail Simone does. I’ve been fond of Olivetti’s art in the recent Space Ghost mini-series and would love to see him work on this title.

JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA: Grant Morrison, Frank Quietly. After their run on the Superman title, I would move these two to JLA. Since I don’t want to take up too much of their time, they would only be signed on for six issues.

WORLD’S FINEST: Geoff Johns, Ethan Van Sciver. I’m a big fan of Green Lantern: Rebirth and this team in general. These two don’t focus on pointless angst and instead focus on making heroes heroic. I would give them twelve issues.

This title would focus on small team-ups between heroes from the All-Star DCU. The first issue would feature Superman, Batman, and Robin just to get the fans hooked. From then on out, the teams would be new and unconventional.

FOURTH WORLD: Paul Dini, George Perez. The work Dini did with Jack Kirby’s Fourth World characters in the animated DCU was phenominal. As for Perez, I think his work speaks for itself—the guy is a legend in the comic industry. This title would appeal to both adult and kids (but wouldn’t talk down to them or sanitize everything). I’m thinking of a Star Wars type of feel. The comic would focus on characters like the New Gods, the Forever People, Mr. Miracle, and even Jimmy Olsen! I would give this team twelve issues.

Pardon me if I spell their writers names.

ALL-STAR SUPERGIRL:
       Writer: Peter A. David (To shut up the troll of a PAD fanl, KET)
       Artisit: Ed Benes (To join PAD)

I agree that I'd like to see a firm and established "Classic" continuity from one set of creaters to the next, both within each title and possibly across the entire line.  In fact, my one concern with the whole All-Star concept is that the focus seems to be more on getting "the hottest, fan-friendliest writers and artists to do their interpretations of classic DC characters" and less on any editorial oversight.  This is the standard DC problem that has led to such messes as DK2.  I sometimes get the impression that DC is letting up on editorial restraints not out of any sense of respect for the writers, but because it's quicker, easier, and less expensive to not have to filter stuff through a knowledgable and skilled editor.


Trina Robbins.

Louise "Wheezy" Simonson on WW?

For an All-Star Legion of Super-Heroes, I'd love to reunite the team of Paul Levitz and Steve Lightle. Just keep Keith Giffen away from the book!

An All Star Legion?
Hmmm..Jim Shooter writing.

But who to draw?
Al Williamson.

For All Star Superman, it'd be Mark Waid and Ivan Reis. Reis has done excellent work on Action; it's a shame that his art was married to Chuck Austen's putrid writing. Reis's Superman is easily the best one I've seen in a long time.

Btw, does anyone know if the All-Star titles are meant to be ongoing, or if they're just going to run for 12 issues and be relegated to the dustbin of history?

Basically instead of a shared continuity you have a shared philosphy behind the books with top creative teams doing series under that. What the average person on the street knows about these characters is all you need going into any of these stories. No fanboy scorecard required. There will be another All Star team for Superman once Morrison has finished his story.

My impression is that it's being used to captialize on the growing tpb market in bookstores which makes the idea of the heroes being easily accessible to the casual reader all the more important. It's all a very good idea.

In theory.

However, this is DC Comics...

Alan Moore on Superman for 12 issues and have Alex Ross paint the whole thing.

How's that?

That'd be cool SM, but I think I'd go with Moore, Ross on painted covers, and Chris Sprouse on interior art. They did gangbuster work on Supreme, so why mess with a winning formula?  :wink:

 -Def.

I was going to stay out of this thread on the assumption that there's no creators working today I think are worthy of Superman, but darned if you haven't come up with a combo that would work!

Moore is a genius, which by this point goes without saying, and he's one of the few people who understand what Superman is all about.  Chris Sprouse is a wonderfully talented artist and along with Dave Gibbons and Brian Bolland one of the last examples of an illustrator in the classic sense, a worthy successor to Curt Swan.  Sprouse is great at drawing characters who are impossibly powerful-looking, as the medium demands, but at the same time his heroes are realistic and attractive, unlike the steroidal monstrosities or "Anime-on-Crack" scribbles most "artists" are giving us.  Plus he actually took the time to learn how to draw buildings, vehicles, furniture, clothing, etc.  He's not one of these dipstick kids who churn out pin-up figures gritting their teeth and flexing their muscles before "backgrounds" that usually amount to smoke and/or a pile of rubble.

Okay, sign me up for an All-Star project with Moore and Sprouse.  As long as we're dreaming...

Heck, as long as we're dreaming give me Elliot S! Maggin as the writer with art by Alex Ross.

I don't post often, but I do read.

All Star Supergirl?   Hmmmm.

Trina Robbins and Anne Timmons(the creators of Go Girl! of Dark Horse Comics) working on Supergirl.     Sorry PAD.

The only ones who might be able to do a decent All Star Wonder Woman are the creators of Flare from Heroic Publishing.

However, I don't want to lose future stories of those characters.

Lesser names that are interested in telling stories, instead of bolstering their ego(Byrne and Liefield I'm looking at you)

You know, even though I was excited as anyone when Alex Ross first showed up, I have to admit I'm pretty tired of his stuff, now.

When I was a kid, I thought being a great artist meant recreating reality as closely as possible.  Not just in the comics, but in paintings and sculpture as well.  Neal Adams was my hero in those days, and anyone who couldn't draw as "realistically" as he could was a hack.  Over time, though, I've developed a real appreciation for more abstract sculpture and impressionist paintings (though I've still no use for cubism or modern "shock art") and, at the same time, a great love for the more cartoony artists in comics history.  For my money, a Kirby, Eisner, Cole or Sprang is much more entertaining than an Adams because they create their own reality, they develop whole worlds that are often more interesting and fun than our own.

I think this is why Ross is losing his appeal to me.  His paintings look like real people dressed in superhero suits...because they're based on photos of real people dressed in superhero suits.  But guess what?  Real people dressed in superhero suits don't look cool, they look silly.  Much as I rail against Hollywood tinkering with superhero costumes, I have to admit that Alex Ross has proven a literal, spandex-only translation to real human figures would look goofy.  (His Flash, in particular, looks like the guy you'd avoid at a Halloween party).

Comics need a sense of unreality to work for me.  A sense of whimsy and imagination.  Curt Swan was as close to "real" as I'd ever want to go.

On the other hand, if Ross did the art, the book would sell like hotcakes.  And I have to admit, based on the pencil sketches I've seen him do, the prospect of a pen-and-ink Ross comic, as oppsed to a painted one, is very intriguing...

^You're right, the prospect of more conventionally colored Ross art does sound intriguing.

You know who else I wish we could see again? Steve Rude. I love the 1940s look he brings to Superman (although I'm not a big fan of the short cape).

For me the real "All-Star" Superman artist is one we can't see again... his initials are CS, of course.

But it would sure be nice if DC released some of the unpublished Swan stories in their files.

By the way, those of you voting for Alex Ross might not have seen this:



http://www.alexrossart.com/rossreport/jan2005/report.html

These are some of his character sketches for his upcoming miniseries JUSTICE. Ross is plotting and inking a 12-issue bi-monthly Justice League maxi-series to start this summer.

Just my opinion: Some of those designs look really amazing (Green Lantern, Captain Marvel, Joker, Scarecrow) and others have me wondering "Why, Alex, WHY?" (such as Batman with knee-high boots, Grodd looking like Chewbacca).

Superman's "S" shield looks to take up more than half his chest! Not sure about that.

Luthor and Toyman are the mid-1970s versions that are dear to Alex's heart from the old SUPER FRIENDS show that instilled his love of super-heroes. So Lex is back to the green and purple look. I wonder what he will do with Brainiac?

well, I am not a  huge fan of Alex Ross, but he is the biggest name artist in Comics, so I figure he could sell the most comics and bring back the real Superman as the one true Superman.

To be 100% honest, as long as Alan Moore is writing it, it could be drawn by anyone ;)


How about Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez? Nightwing loves him and he isn't dead yet ;)

or Walt Simonson?

or Art Adams?

or Rick Veitch! Since he could ape any style, it could do it in the style of Curt Swan, his own style is pretty neat too but maybe too dark for Supes.

I'd be all about some Garcia Lopez or Art Adams. Simonson and Veitch not so much..

Simonson's art is an acquired taste, certainly.  In the right mood, I like it a lot, but on Superman?  I don't know.  On the other hand, if they had to hand the keys to the kingdom to an artist/writer in 1986, I wish it had been Walt instead of Byrne.  What Walt did on "Thor" a couple years before was nothing short of miraculous...to wit: he made me like the character!

Can't believe I forgot Steve Rude and Garcia-Lopez, especially after I went to all the trouble of building tributes to them on my site (and picked a Rude image for my avatar)!  Yes, either one would be better than terrific.  In the case of JLGL, it would even have the air of a long-denied birthright at last fulfilled...he was destined to take over the Super-books, in my opinion, and might well have if the rules hadn't suddenly changed after Crisis.

I might be talked into a Darwyn Cooke version, as well.  Writing and art.

Nightwing, the DUDE would be awesome. Loved his take on Worl'd Finest - th Dude is one of the few artists out there today who really, really knows how to draw well and his Supes was iconic.

Rude would also be a good choice. btw Nightwing I really love your site even though I take some small issue with the manga influence comment.  I was struck by your editorial on Jor-El and Lara. Even though I'm not a parent myself, the act of Jor-El and Lara is always an emotional experience for me. I totally agree with that article. Nicely done, sir.

Thanks for the kind words.

Not sure what I said about manga, but it's no secret I don't like it.  Or rather, I don't like the big-footed, big-eyed, goofball American comics art that claims to be inspired by it.  I should say right up front I know very little about true Manga...it just seems to me a lot of artists here in the States use the "Manga" label as a shield for their lack of skill.  Possibly the real thing has some nuances the rip-offs don't.  Just as a Japanese animated feature film like Akira has qualities that bargain basement, made for TV dreck like "Pokemon" doesn't.

Who was that guy who drew "Impulse"? That's the kind of junk I hate.  And all the hacks who've drawn...and continue to draw...Superman as a freakish caricature who's not only ugly but changes his facial features from one panel to the next.  That to me is a sign of incompetence.  And for that we need "archival quality" paper and a $2.99 price tag, while masters like Swan and Sprang were printed on pulp paper for a dime?  (Again, sorry I don't know the name...if it helps, it was a comic where Superman was fighting Ultra-Man and the evil Superwoman...with a superbaby thrown in too, I think. Yecch)

The so-called artist you're referring to for that story is Carlos Meglia.

Meglia stinks big-time!

And he was advertised as some great artistic 'talent'.

*BLEECCHH!!*

Y'know, that story wouldn't have been half-bad if a halfway decent artist had drawn it.  We don't need a Ross or Adams level guy, just a competent artist like Swan could have pulled that off and made it work.

McGuinness' cartoony Micheline Man incarnation of Superman also is far too overrated.  He gets raves for looking more cartoony?  Meanwhile Adams, Ross, Anderson, Swan, and Perez -- who are far greater talents! -- never get a nod.  But McG gets a flippin' award.

There ain't no justice ...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!  :lol:  That's just too funny! By the way, I would love to see All-Star Superman drawn by Steve Rude. Now that guy has talent!!

Yeah, Rude could have pulled it off.  He's not the greatest artist but at least he's a competent one going by Hulk vs Superman.

McGuinnessis is one of the worst "artists" working today, his Superman represents everything that is wrong with DC today.

Sadly he also has a huge fan following.

Go figure  :?

Byrne used to be a great artist and a pathetic writer.

Now, he's a pathetic artist and a pathetic writer, so things have finally balanced out

It's a shame we couldn't have his pencils at the reboot minus his questionable 'creative input'.

:D

All-Star Superman? Well...

WRITERS: Paul Dini, Matt Wagner, Grant Morrison, Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern, Jerry Ordway, J. Michael Strazcynski, Peter David, Geoff Johns, and Mike Allred.

ARTISTS: Ed McGuinness (I don't care what the naysayers say, he draws a fine Superman in my eyes), Doug Mahnke, Steve Rude, Ed Benes, Mike Wieringo, Alan Davis, Carlos Pacheco, Ron Lim (loved his Superman/Silver Surfer team-up), Paul Pelletier, Kerry Gammill, Tom Grummett, Bob McLeod, Steven Butler (LOVED his Spider-Man art), the Kubert brothers, and Barry Kitson.

Anything goes here, folks.

By the by, I just checked out "JLA: Earth 2" from the library as a foretaste of what the "All-Star" team might give us.  The story's a bit dark for my taste, but it has some very good moments (like when the antimatter universe's Luthor shows up and says, "I needed a name for your world, so I'm calling it Earth-2!"  :lol:  Now we know how Jay Garrick felt!).

But the art?  Yech.  I sincerely hope Frank Quitely's been toiling away at his art lessons in the intervening years...what I saw here was not encouraging.  Buildings and vehicles and technology, fine.  But people? Yech.