Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Peter David was hoping that Supergirl wouldn't be cancelled, and he had plans for how the story would have continued past issue #80.

See http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/gmlog/00000325.html for details.

Blonde Justice....sounds cool.

Now that would have been fun!

As far as I'm concerned, they can keep that blob or protoplasm Supergirl.  The only REAL Supergirl is Kara Zor-El, Superman's cousin.  I hope the new movie will be based on that one.

Yippeee! *i don't know i why i said that but ifelt like saying it**

"Fly  high to the sky"-(Me)
"I LOVE flying. I just don't like airplanes"-(Supergirl   to Charlie)
"Why can't you be more normal. Like me."-(Supergirl to Superman)
**got the last 2 quotes from SGPI Jason Friokin

...wow.  There wasn't a blob of protoplasm Supergirl since issue 1 of PADs Supergirl run.   I dont' think anyone has to worry about Matrix.  

  Then again... Kara never existed until Superman/Batman #8.  So my guess is that Linda Danvers deserved it just as much.  She earned it after all.  Kara only got it cause her cousin is Superman *L*  kidding.

When I clicked on the link, the page was not found.

Can anyone briefly (or in-depth) tell me what Peter David's plans would have been, post-SG #80?

JeebusToad, originally "Many Happy Returns" was NOT supposed to end with Kara being sent back into the past and a shattered Linda resigning.  Even though DC permitted Peter David only SIX issues with Kara Zor-El, he wanted to keep her alive past #80 and have Kara, Linda and Power Girl team up as "Blonde Justice".  

It's unclear how Peter David would have rescued Kara.  It's clear that he considered that Supergirl to be THE Silver Age version who later died in the Crisis, and not some Hypertime variant.  (However, Linda DID inadvertantly create a new Hypertime or alternate timeline Earth-1 when she tried to take Kara's place -- finally the differences became too great for the Spectre to substitute Linda into the Crisis.)  Or perhaps instead of Linda knocking her out, Kara grimly volunteers to fulfill her destiny (that would eliminate a lot of Linda's guilt) and ANOTHER Kara joins Linda and Power Girl.  This one could be another prisoner in Lord Xenon's castle, a Hypertime clone (just like the Zero Hour Batgirl was originally intended to replace the crippled Barbara Gordon!), a reincarnated Kara, an older Ariella, or...?  So far, Peter David has kept silent on his original solution.

Peter David was hoping that Kara's appearance would spark enough reader interest for DC to reverse their position and keep both her and the Supergirl comic alive.  But it's now obvious that DC was set on another course, dropping the Supergirl title in favor of Cir-El.  When Cir-El flopped (after being the target of wrath by both outraged Kara AND Linda fans) DC did an about-face and created a new post-Birthright Kara.  But it was this lost opportunity to have both Linda and the original Kara that still annoys many fans.

Checking Peter David's blog archives, I located the original post:

http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/2003_03.html

According to PAD, "Blonde Justice" would have been the "S" title's equivalent of "Birds of Prey", with Linda taking on the identity of "Superwoman" and Kara claiming (REclaiming?) the title of "Supergirl".

There's 69 comments to this posting, most thanking PAD for his 80-issue run and mourning the loss of this title.  It makes an interesting read now that some time has passed, Cir-El has vanished, a completely new Kara has arrived, and "Fallen Angel" has been cancelled.  

One suspects Peter David has VERY mixed emotions concerning the new Kara -- he can rightfully claim that the response to "Many Happy Returns" paved the way for a Kryptonian cousin's return, but it's a pretty bittersweet "victory" when his Linda Lee Danvers (and now Lee the Fallen Angel) are now exiled to Limbo, and the new Kara shares nothing with PAD's storyline.

Well, I'm sure David will survive it.

I have had my fill of stupid creators whose ego is bigger then their love for any given character.

(Remember John Byrne, for instance? He recreated the Man of Steel. Many years later, there was a fight between Thor and a version of Supes, which was based on Byrne's version. And just because Byrne decidet that Supes was less powerful then Thor, he's spending his days even now whining at Kurt Busieck because he "let" Supes win. Just because it didn't FIT his Zombie Vision.

He would rather have Supes going down to Thor then seeing anything in print which contradicted his ideas. SOME ego.  :roll:

Since the day I found out, I lost every shred of respect for Byrne.  :evil: )

 :lol:  just as an aside....you know, if you go by what has been written as far as Supes strengths and weaknesses.....he SHOULD have lost to Thor  :lol:   One smack from that MAGICAL hammer should have done it.  And Thor is a "god" after all.

Of course, it couldn't happen.  

Just out of curiosity...has Supes EVER lost in one of those cross company crossover battles?  I sincerely hope not.

Dylan

Dream on, Traitor.  :P

But, seriously... "Thor is a god", what does that mean? It means that Thor's an extra-dimensional alien - just like Supes is an extraterrestrial alien - , who's got a "magic hammer" which can make bad weather and has a stable full of GOATS who can traverse space and other dimensions.  :?:

Oooooooooh, I'm just so impressed by this "Powerhouse"...  :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

Or, to put it a little LESS biased: if one could cal somebody like Thor an "god"-- what should we call Supes??

Besides, remember the first Thor/Hyperion fight from an OLD Avengers issue? If Thor jobs to a character which is slightly above Mighty Mouse level, yer better not expect him to go up against even a "Byrned" Superman, and "win" anything but a spanking.  :)

(Speaking of which: even the "Byrned Superman had his Super Speed; what defenses does Thor have against THAT? I'm sorry, Dylan, but Kurt WASN'T biased:Supes really IS more likely to win against Thor then vice versa.)



Well, no. Not unless you assume the Superman/Venom fight valid in any way. That might be the cheapest writing I ever saw.

But there was also the encounter between Mr. Majestic and "electric" Superman from the JLA/Wildcats one-shot.

But it's kinda an special case: we never saw EXCACTLY how their fight turned out, but after the fight, Supes was noticably subdued and unwilling to directly opposing Majestic's will. Such as when Majestic told Supes that he'll take a member of the JLA for every member of the Wildcats lost in battle against the Lord of Time.

Now, at the time that oneshot came out, I hadn't idea one who Majestic was; but I still had the very strong feeling at that Time that Supes was decisively aand humilatingly LOST to that creep in silver "dance on tables"-boots.  :evil:

Back at ya  :P  :mrgreen:

 


LOL I have to be careful on this one...I have friends that pray to Thor ( :lol: not the comic version  :lol: )

But I have to say I like that description....it takes him down from godhood.



I actually thought of that while I was writing my original response but decided not to address it....after all...why question if I'm going to answer myself instantly  :lol:  :lol:   Though I have to say you give more credit to the Superman from the Byrnes Blasphemy than I would  :twisted:

Dylan

Thor can't fly without that hammer.  Sure, Thor beat Captain Marvel by blocking the lightning that transforms Billy Batson into Cap.

The match-ups in that were silly.   Wolverine vs Lobo?

At any rate, back to the topic.

PAD's future vision of Supergirl that didn't pan out.

I'm not sure if it would have been a good idea.  Kara Zor-El has her basis more in science fiction than mysticisim.  I know PAD can do good science ficition if he needs to(Star Trek comic), but he seems more drawn to the mysticisim aspects of super-heroes.

Actually, I have always seen the Superman family as more or less Science-fiction and think that is the way it SHOULD be (personal opinion there) and really disliked the fantasy/mysticism creeping in.

Oh, and PAD does more than Star Trek Comics  (I wasn't even aware he DID Star Trek comics:lol:)   He has more than a few Star Trek novels.  

And yes, he is very talented.  But as several have stated (and I think DTO put it best though I will only paraphrase him here) that it seems likely that PAD had this Character that he wanted to push and saw Supergirl as a way of introducing that character (Angel-Girl).  I think his subsequent Fallen Angel run tends to give that concept a lot more credence.

As I have stated before, If PAD had stayed away from the mysticism...had he not become so fixated on Angel-girl and been more focused on "SUPER" Girl, then I think he would have had a much better series.

Personally, I think it was his steadfast refusal to end the angel-girl thing (until he was given no choice) that led to the dragging sales and his eventual cancellation.

Dylan

"Blasphemy"?  :?:

That's my #1 favorite Superman you're talking about.  :P

Anyway, it only seems as if Supes looks like a weakling compared to Thor to you, because you're comparing him to the Weisinger Superman; in that case, Supes looks like a tame bore indeed. In his own context he is staggering powerful.

In regards to Dylans last comment about the PAD Series...  While he might have held on to the mystical aspect of Supergirl a little too long, you have to admit that any other series starring that Supergirl would have flopped.  The first few years Supergirl did awesome as a series.  One might say that it was the spiral away from the mystical after issue 50 that sent it spiralling down.

The one problem that I have about people criticizing this series is that PAD did everything that people want to see from the new Series.  He made Supergirl a hero in her own right, away from Superman.  Only throwing him into the ocassional subplot.  Which was good.  It established her own villians.  It made her a very real person by merging her with so many other aspects of the previous Supergirl.  You have to keep in mind, this Supergirl was not a Kryptonian, so many things about her could be different, and were made different to make her stand apart from the crowd.  The Matrix version that was never even offered more than a mini-series never could have done that.

Actually, I don't believe that at all.  

I do admit that Peter David is a fantastic writer... (even if he wasn't, he's doing something I'm not...making money at it  :lol: ) But I don't think he was the only one that could have done a successful Supergirl.  (But he may have been the only one willing to take on the job  :lol: )

And I don't believe that he had to use the mystical/religious hooks to make Supergirl viable.  In fact, I think, in the end, that was the downfall.  Because he alienated too many fans with it in the first place and then more when it drug on too long (and he originally did not WANT to end the angel-girl thing....read his foreword in the MHR TBP)...the fact that he was constantly being asked when it would end showed that even those that liked the initial story thought it had gone on too long and it was past time to move on andgo back to writing about Supergirl.

Having said that, I think it was just a case of stubborness on PAD's part.  The man had the talent to make just about anything work without resorting to the mystical and/or religious trappings.

In retrospect, I have to say that I never disliked PAD, I was just disappointed in hiim.  He could have done so much more.  He could have made the angel-girl thing a very short lived story and gone on to bigger and better things.  I think he just made the wrong choice by sticking with it much too long.

The jump in sales with the re-introduction of Kara (I think that should have told some one something  :lol: ) was a good clue that the readers were not tired of Supergirl...but rather tired of PAD's Supergirl.  It didn't matter that he had ended the angel-girl thing.....it had gone on too long and people had written him off.  A case of too little too late.

Now personally, I really enjoyed MHR.    But that is about all of his run that I DID enjoy.

Of course, I am glad that people enjoyed his entire run...I just can't claim to be one of those people  :lol:


Dylan

I dipped into the PAD run from time to time, and I found the mystical aspects of Supergirl/Linda to be pretty cool, but the title did eventually run out of steam with the supernatural angle. I liked the idea of Linda as Supergirl without the weird trappings, but admittedly it just wasn't the same as a proper Supergirl in the proper outfit (all due respect to Bruce Timm and Paul Dini aside).

 I'm curious to see where this new series is heading, although I'm a bit leery of the art. I like my nubile superhuman post-pubsescents to look a -bit- more healthy, but that's me. Jeph Loeb knocked one out of the park with the Supergirl storyline, so I'm anxious to see how he can follow up on the potential with a regular series.

 -Def.

In addition, I have to admit that I DO admire PAD for his convictions and keeping HIS vision of Supergirl alive for 80 issues.  It lasted longer than I thought it would.

But it is obvious that he fought an uphill battle the entire time.  Even now, twenty years later, People STILL equate Supergirl with Kara Zor-El...not angel-girl  and his attempts to incorporate so many aspects of Kara Zor-El was in recognition of this...trying to play upon it and bolster his own version.

The fact that it was not his version that was seen as "Supergirl" can easily be seen in the animated series.  Why did they not introduce his Linda as supergirl instead of Kara In-Ze?  They created a character that was tweaked just enough to allow her to exist in the Byrnes Blas...er....Era :lol:  But one that was still recognizable, though all that, as Kara Zor-El.

Because this was the character that people identified as Supergirl. And In-Ze was so close to that character that it didn't matter that her surname was In-Ze instead of Zor-El...because most people understood that she was basically a carbon copy of Zor-El.

PAD COULD have overcome that, I do believe.  I just think, with the mysticism and the religious aspects, he went in the wrong direction.

Had he kept away from those aspects, left angel-girl for some other comic, focused on a more science-fiction oriented aspect and THEN began to incorporate bits and pieces from Kara Zor-El, he could have come up with a Supergirl that a majority of fans could have gotten behind and would still be going strong today.

Dylan

Kara In-Ze is not a carbon copy of Kara Zor-El. IF anything, she more based off of Powergirl.


Kara In-Ze, in my opinion, is a better modification of Kara Zor-El. She seperate from Superman, and she has more personality then Kara Zor-El ever had.  Kara Zor-El was either crying cuz she had no Super-Friends, or trying to hook Superman up with someone.  Kara In-Ze on the other hand was sassy, smart, girly, and a bit of a wise-ass.

Unlike Kara Zor-El, who basically borrows her entire identity from Superman, Kara In-Ze comes from her own planet, has her own costume, her own personality, and not same weaknesses. She not effected by Kryptonite as badly as Kal-El is.


Ironic, but Kara Zor-El II is borrowing heavily from Kara In-Ze.  What's sad though is they are now modifying Kara In-Ze into Kara Zor-El, atleast in JLU, by making her Kryptonian.

Uhh, wish just left her alone.