Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Superman on the Screen! => Adventures on Television! => Topic started by: llozymandias on July 07, 2005, 06:50:35 PM



Title: What If?
Post by: llozymandias on July 07, 2005, 06:50:35 PM
As i understand it, the series' main weakness was the super-low budget.  That & the fact that the stories were too mundane.  Imagine what the series could have been if they had have had a big (or just good) budget.  Better special effects.   Super-villains like Luthor, instead of street level thugs.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Super Monkey on July 07, 2005, 10:15:52 PM
I don't think so, the old Superman series was always fun had it had a shoestring budget with no comic book villains that I can remember. The show just needed better writers.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Klar Ken T5477 on July 07, 2005, 11:54:42 PM
Well Beppo, the show had Mort Wesinger as story editor, Whitney Ellsworth in charge and even Perry Mason scribe Jackson Gillis - so good writers they had,  Even Bob Maxwell who had done the radio show for years did the first inital Phyllis Coatesd era years.

They were hamstrung by their sponsor Kellogs who skewered toward more of a kiddie show where the baddies would inveitabley knock themselves out by their own ineptitude.  Also thhose very years the show premiered were those that had the comics industry under the gun thanks to a McCarthy-esque crackpot named Frederic Wertham.

Wonder what Wertham would think o f today's comics? :roll:


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: nightwing on July 08, 2005, 02:54:31 PM
I don't think money's the cure to everything.  Some of the best moments in film and television came from people trying to find creative solutions to a lack of funds.  The old Star Trek show, for me, is a good example...after the initial (huge) investment in a bridge set, costumes and some opticals, the budget kept getting smaller and smaller, but in the end some of the best episodes of the series took place on those stock sets, with stock opticals and only one or two guest stars (if any!).  

I think "AOS" was similar in many ways...the cast had a terrific rapport and were genuinely likable.  They did a lot with a little.  And don't forget we're talking about the 50s here...it's doubtful any special effects from those days would hold up by today's standards...even "The Twilight Zone" works now because of the scripts much more than the effects (some of which were, at the time, fantastic).

I don't know that we'd have seen a lot of super-villains even if they'd had the money.  The show was aimed at kids (at least after the first year), and like most television it was designed to be simple and easy to follow.  Loading up the series with elements from Superman's complex comic book world might have put people off.  

Could the show have been better?  Sure, but so could any show ever made.  In the end, AOS stands as one of only TWO series from its era that's remained on the air almost without interruption since its first run (the other being I Love Lucy).  The Lone Ranger pops up now and then...if you find the right specialty channel you might see Jack Benny or Burns and Allen...but it's Lucy and Superman who have hung around continuously and become pop culture icons.  I'd say that's a sign they did something right!


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Super Monkey on July 08, 2005, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: "Klar Ken T5477"
Well Beppo, the show had Mort Wesinger as story editor, Whitney Ellsworth in charge and even Perry Mason scribe Jackson Gillis - so good writers they had,  Even Bob Maxwell who had done the radio show for years did the first inital Phyllis Coatesd era years.

They were hamstrung by their sponsor Kellogs who skewered toward more of a kiddie show where the baddies would inveitabley knock themselves out by their own ineptitude.  Also thhose very years the show premiered were those that had the comics industry under the gun thanks to a McCarthy-esque crackpot named Frederic Wertham.

Wonder what Wertham would think o f today's comics? :roll:


OOPS, well as you can see my post makes no sense, since somehow I got confuse and thought this thread was about Lois and Clark, LOL. Now go back and read my post again, and now it makes sense ;)

I going to go eat a banana now in shame.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: llozymandias on July 08, 2005, 09:57:38 PM
The effects could have been a lot better.   Consider the Captain Marvel movie serial from the 40s.   From what i read the reason Luthor was not used in AOS was, because it was considered a waste of his character to just have him robbing banks.  Superman was already a pop culture icon since the late-30s/early-40s.  It's just that it would been nice for Superman to have had a series that was worthy of him.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Lee Semmens on July 09, 2005, 07:42:06 AM
Even in the Superman/Action comic books for much of the 1950s (for the first half or so, anyway) super-villains tended to be few and far between, as far as I can make out, with even Luthor only making comparatively rare appearances, at least until late in the period, so I don't think we can blame the producers/writers of The Adventures of Superman too much for their absence.

Most of the villains in the relevant comics of this period were gangsters, as in the TV show, while the few super-villains tended to be either other survivors of Krypton, or mere mortals temporarily freakishly endowed with superpowers - but who were never seen again.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Klar Ken T5477 on July 09, 2005, 08:45:59 AM
Quote from: "llozymandias"
The effects could have been a lot better.   Consider the Captain Marvel movie serial from the 40s.   From what i read the reason Luthor was not used in AOS was, because it was considered a waste of his character to just have him robbing banks.  Superman was already a pop culture icon since the late-30s/early-40s.  It's just that it would been nice for Superman to have had a series that was worthy of him.


I found the Captain Marvel serial SFX by the Lydeckers to be the least effective of their flying effects.  Cap floats reather than flies..for nop notch flying see KING OF THE ROCKETMEN with Tris Coffin(everyone's fave AOS villian) as Larry King, Rocketman. This Republic serial was a big influence on Dave Stevens' Rocketeer.  

They even used "Flying Lydecker" SFX is several sequences in Superman:The Movie esp in the Saving the World sequences.

And the SFX in Lois & Clark are pretty decent anyway - alittle cheesy but more reality oriented than some of the CGI gumby bears flying around these days. ;)


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: MatterEaterLad on July 09, 2005, 08:45:46 PM
Given special effects of the time, mostly extremely high budget like CB DeMille's upside down waterfalls for the parting of the Red Sea type things, I'm not sure what could have made Superman that much better...aside from imposed opticals and stop motion, what was available?


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: nightwing on July 09, 2005, 09:48:40 PM
I must be the only person around who thinks the Captain Marvel serial was junk.  I'll grant you some of the flying sequences were creative (and miles above the animated stuff in the Superman serial), but all the characters are dead wrong...Billy Batson is about 40 and Tom Tyler had such an awful voice it's no wonder his other big role was a non-speaking one in "The Mummy's Hand" (as the Mummy, no less!).  This serial, to me, is a good example of a project that lots of money could not help.

I feel funny having to defend a show remembered so fondly by millions, but AOS was a great show for what it was.  Nobody in the 50s considered comic book superheroes to be anything more than goofy kid stuff (well, except those who felt they were subversive and deviant!), so it's hard to imagine any studio spending any money on them.  The reign of the superhero as box office champ is a very recent phenomenon.  As Gerard Jones puts it in his "Men of Tomorrow" book, we are now living in the "Geek Culture."  Today comic book properties are looked upon as box office dynamite, so studios are willing to put money in to get money out.  In 1951 nobody in his right mind would have bet the farm on a superhero film or series catching on with anything but 8-year-olds.

Whether this reversal of fortune should be viewed as a triumph for the comics industry or a sad comment on the intellectual level of most audiences today is a matter for debate.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Lee Semmens on July 10, 2005, 07:40:20 AM
Actually, Nightwing, Billy Batson - aka Frank Coghlan - was not quite 40, but 25 when he made the Captain Marvel serial, as the following biography shows, but I do agree he looked a little too old for the role:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0169067/


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: King Krypton on August 06, 2005, 11:27:04 AM
Pencil me in as one of the people who thinks Captain Marvel's flying FX were silly. Just how much more swaybacked could Captain Marvel have been when he took flight? I'm sorry, but the mannequin they used should not have had such major curvature of the spine.

As for TAoS, they could have used some of the comic book bad guys. The serials used Lex Luthor, and their budget was next to nothing. They pulled it off nicely, so a few appearances by Lex here and there would have been feasible. "Mr. Zero" could (and SHOULD) have been a Mxyzptlk episode (and really, you'd only ever need to show Mxy once), with a sympathetic Mxy who can't control his powers. Toyman and Pranskter could have been used because they were just thieves and bandits at that point in time. Those guys would all have been manageable under the show's budget. (I'll grant that Bizarro, Brainiac, Metallo, and others would have been out of the question.)

And on another note, Robert Lowery's guest appearance was the perfect opportunity for a Superman/Batman team-up episode. What a waste....


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: crazedvillain on September 21, 2005, 11:18:13 PM
Lyle Talbot from the Superman serial brought into the TV series as Luthor would of been great.  It would of been a memorable feature of the series, the Luthor appearences and his clashes with Superman. It would of elevated the show.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Gernot on October 08, 2005, 04:56:11 AM
I'd've also loved to have seen Luthor in the TV show.  

He could've been a behind-the-scenes villian, as the creator of the giant freezer that took Superman's powers away, for example.  Luthor might not have wasted his time robbing banks, but his minions would only have been too happy to try to take advantage of Superman's weaknesses at that point.  

They could even have used stock footage of Luthor at the end of his episodes reading a paper or listening to a radio broadcast of Superman getting the upper hand saying, "Curses!  Superman still lives!  SOMEDAY, Man Of Steel!  Someday..."

Every season's finale could have had Luthor thrown in jail again, too!  ;)  Most episodes would only have needed little tinkering to have been Luthor plots to destroy Superman.


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: nightwing on October 08, 2005, 09:14:13 PM
You know, all this talk of Luthor raises an interesting point.  I've always believed the general public -- who do not buy comics -- know certain things about Superman because of the TV show.  Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Kryptonite, the Daily Planet, etc.  Wander away from stuff on the show...talk to people about Krypto, Supergirl, Kandor, the Phantom Zone and so on...and you get a blank stare.

And yet, everyone seems to know Luthor, even though he never appeared on the show or on radio.  How is this?  I know now they might remember Gene Hackman, but even before the film came out, I knew people who said, "Hackman is Luthor? That ought to be good."  So they must have known him already.  People still use the name "Lex Luthor" to describe mad scientist/supercriminal types, just as they use "James Bond" to describe handy new gadgets.

Batman's rogues gallery barged into households around the world on the 60s show, so I expect people to know the Joker, Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman.  But how is it so many know Luthor?  Any ideas?


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 08, 2005, 09:40:18 PM
In Atom Man Vs. Superman from 1950 Superman battles Lex Luther.. also how can you forget... SUPER FRIENDS!!!


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Gernot on October 09, 2005, 07:43:44 AM
Besides the serial and SuperFriends, you also had the old newspaper comic strip and Filmation cartoons.  

So Luthor's actually had quite a bit of exposure, I guess.  ;)


Title: Re: What If?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 09, 2005, 12:03:35 PM
yes, and all before the 1st film was release, so that would explain why so many people knew who Lex Luther was.