Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Superman Comic Books! => All-Star Superman! => Topic started by: Super Monkey on September 05, 2005, 08:18:37 PM



Title: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Super Monkey on September 05, 2005, 08:18:37 PM
Enjoy: http://www.popthought.com/display_column.asp?DAID=861


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: JulianPerez on September 05, 2005, 10:14:19 PM
People can be incredibly arrogant wankers and still produce great work. By all accounts, Steve Englehart was an egomaniac of Shatneresque proportions, Mort Weisenger was a bully that liked to throw things at people when he was unhappy, and Stan Lee was an avaricious sociopath that turned his collaborators into impoverished assassins out to destroy him.

So, finding out Grant Morrison is a prentious snot doesn't make me any more or less nervous either way about ALL-STAR SUPERMAN.

I must confess, I kind of skimmed through this interview. It alternates between mind-destroying minutiae that would be thrown off even the most self-obsessed teenager's LiveJournal for being too trivial (how much water Grant Morrison drinks a day), and fanboy praise that is so gushing that it seriously borders on the homoerotic. It feels like that interview Barbara Walters gave Fidel Castro where she coyishly pushed her hair behind her ears, gazed into his eyes, and asked hard questions like "Castro, why are you so dreamy?"

Quote
AN: Your use of Metaphor has confounded numerous "Joe Six-pack" readers and thrilled many critics. Is metaphor the domain of higher levels of thought? If so, does that thereby threaten to alienate those readers who are unable to think upon those planes?


Almost at the start of the interview I heard a starter pistol shot. Let the self-congratulation BEGIN!

Yes, fanboys, YOU TOO can be as great as Grant Morrison in three easy steps:

1) Take an idea that approximately 1.7 billion postmodernist and magical realist authors have done before;

2) Put in a plot gleefully stolen from INDEPENDENCE DAY or whatever hit movie is big now;

3) Put in as many snarky, self-referencial jokes at the expense of iconic characters as possible.

Here's a tip, Grant Morrison: work is only intelligent if it is good. Putting in your mind-boggling subtext and allegory does not make it a good story. Consistent Characterization, fast-paced original plots, and imaginative power make a story work, and not all the allegories to politics in the world will change that. I will give you credit, though: you're smart enough to know that you're not good at any of those three things and you don't try to, so you produce average work that is completely unoriginal and totally uninspired. This is fine; Gerry Conway, Roy Thomas, and Chris Claremont appreciate the company in the Club of "Just Okay" Comics Writers.

Take your JLA story that revealed that Angels are real, for instance. What a mind-blowing concept! Does that mean there IS a God, too? An afterlife? Does every human being on earth have a guardian angel (even superheroes)? Do robots have robot angels, and dogs have doggy angels? Imagine the possibilities for exploration that such a concept would raise. Imagine what a writer like Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman would do with this sort of idea. But, instead, what do you do? Turn it into just another alien invasion story where the climax is the JLAers catching an exploding blimp and Superman punching out a monster with eyes all over his chest. You wrote a story about angels and it felt like just another rehash of INDEPENDENCE DAY.

Words fail me.

Quote from: "Grant Morrison"
What can I say? I'm not some big intellectual:


Gee, I never would have guessed.

Oh, and incidentally, there is a part where they ask Granty-boy "when comics will be accepted as a valid medium." He says that comics don't need external validation, and that their success in captivating the entire world's imagination is validation enough (I'm paraphrasing here). This is a shockingly intelligent and articulate statement from a man whose work is pseudo-intellectual and infuriatingly pretentious. This is going to sound like damning with faint praise, but I would never think Grant had the clarity and maturity to make such an insightful comment.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: NotSuper on September 05, 2005, 11:33:00 PM
That's a really good interview. I just wish there were more questions about All-Star Superman.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Gangbuster on September 07, 2005, 01:31:45 PM
I kind of already knew Grant Morrison was an egomaniac, when the last issues of Animal Man were ABOUT GRANT MORRISON!!!

"Hmm...what shall the grand finale of Animal Man be? So much story to resolve, so much to explain...wait, I know! Animal Man will have the honor of meeting...ME!"

Has Grant Morrison ever written Superman before? Because I don't remember the Superman and Grant Morrison issue of DC Comics Presents.  :wink:


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Captain Kal on September 07, 2005, 01:49:48 PM
Grant Morrison wrote the original run of the new JLA book, and the related DC One Million (about the triumphant return of Superman Prime, over 83,000 years in the future) miniseries.  Both runs were deeply respectful of Superman and tended to make Big Blue the centrepiece of the DCU, as he should be.

I'd have no problem with Morrison taking over regular Superman writing.  DC has done and is doing worse.

Maybe he had a failure of imagination at some points.  But he actually gets who Superman is.  His Superman is very Silver Age/Bronze Age.  Morrison's Superman is once again a Primal Legend of the DCU instead of the whining, ineffective, just-another-hero of the Byrned brow.

Here's a link from this very site as a tribute to Morrison's interpretation of Superman:
http://superman.nu/a/History/grant.php


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Gangbuster on September 07, 2005, 01:53:01 PM
I made fun of him, because I can. Still, is he taking over the regular Superman books? (I hope so.)

Still looking forward to All-Star Superman. Might be the first Superman book I ever subscribe to...we'll see.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Captain Kal on September 07, 2005, 01:58:32 PM
Hey, Gangbuster Thorul, see my edited post above.

I wish he'd take over regular Superman.  His work rocked when it came to Superman in his other books.

But his writing All-Star Superman is the next best thing.

Waid's done Birthright.

Morrison is on All-Star.

DC seems to finally be letting guys who know who Superman is to handle the character.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: JulianPerez on September 07, 2005, 04:25:47 PM
Quote from: "Gangbuster Thorul"
I kind of already knew Grant Morrison was an egomaniac, when the last issues of Animal Man were ABOUT GRANT MORRISON!!!

"Hmm...what shall the grand finale of Animal Man be? So much story to resolve, so much to explain...wait, I know! Animal Man will have the honor of meeting...ME!"  


Whatever else I can say about him, Grant Morrison is indeed a pioneer. That ANIMAL MAN story came out years before the invention of the self-insertion fanfic, heralding the coming of Gonterman and Marissa Picard. Morrison is truly a modern John the Baptist.

I can't get enough, though, of the "Emperor's New Clothes" defense of ANIMAL MAN's incomprehensible ending. Mention in any form that it made no sense and was not led up to in any way by the events of the story, the defenders' response is, "Well, if you don't get it, that shows you're not insightful."

To be *totally* fair, though, Morrison's ANIMAL MAN was better than it was under Paul Kupperberg, but MY GOD, it would have been better canceled, too.

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
Grant Morrison wrote the original run of the new JLA book, and the related DC One Million (about the triumphant return of Superman Prime, over 83,000 years in the future) miniseries. Both runs were deeply respectful of Superman and tended to make Big Blue the centrepiece of the DCU, as he should be.


This is why I can honestly say I'm excited about Morrison's run. It says something about the "quality" of the super-writers, or at least the mediocrity of the Carlin-helmed comittee, that someone like Morrison towers over them like a giant. I really want to see what he comes up with.

But let's keep things in perspective here. If Morrison and Waid wrote Superman during the ACTUAL Silver Age, their work would have been overshadowed by Bates and Maggin, and their work would be viewed at the same level as the "just okay" writers of the period, like Mike W. Barr or Gerry Conway.

In fact, a case can be made that Morrison is the reincarnation of Gerry Conway. The similarities between the style and careers of the two men is astonishing...this is fodder for a future post.

More than anything else, I'm excited about ALL-STAR because it means Morrison will prop the door open for other, better writers: can you imagine Dan Slott's Superman? Or Kurt Busiek's Superman? Or Steve Englehart's Superman?


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: NotSuper on September 07, 2005, 10:19:32 PM
Quote from: "Captain Kal"
Maybe he had a failure of imagination at some points.  But he actually gets who Superman is.  His Superman is very Silver Age/Bronze Age.  Morrison's Superman is once again a Primal Legend of the DCU instead of the whining, ineffective, just-another-hero of the Byrned brow.

Agreed. There's no doubt in my mind that Morrison's Superman will be treated as special, rather than just another hero in a world of heroes. Morrison understands that Superman should be the first and best super-hero. His Superman will have an unbreakable code against killing and be confident, rather than being Batman's doormat (Superman vs. Batman became overdone YEARS ago). Morrison seems to want to not just bring back classic ideas, but also to move Superman forward as well. He's going to give us new, exciting stuff with familiar locales and characters, along with some new ones.

As for Morrison writing the main Superman titles, I'd much rather have him do this. Without the constraints of mainstream continuity, Morrison can go wild with his ideas. Besides, with Johns and Morrison handling the post-IC DCU, I have a feeling we'll see some big changes in how things are done. We won't be going back to any past era, but we may finally get out of the Iron Age.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Super Monkey on September 08, 2005, 01:06:45 AM
His full run on JLA is collected as TPBs.

JLA Vol. 1: New World Order
JLA Vol. 2: American Dreams
JLA Vol. 3: Rock of Ages
JLA Vol. 4: Strength in Numbers
JLA Vol. 5: Justice for All
JLA Vol. 6: World War III
and
JLA: Earth 2
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1563896311.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1563895757.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: TELLE on September 08, 2005, 05:02:20 AM
Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Whatever else I can say about him, Grant Morrison is indeed a pioneer. That ANIMAL MAN story came out years before the invention of the self-insertion fanfic, heralding the coming of Gonterman and Marissa Picard. Morrison is truly a modern John the Baptist.


I know I could google this or look it up in the wikipedia but I'm interested in this new (to me) genre of "self-insertion fanfic".  Is it strictly a fanfic thing or has the term been applied to "pro" writing before?  And how is it different from, say, Dave Sim in Cerebus, Steve Gerber in Howard the Duck #16, or, for that matter, Jack and Stan in FF, and various DC writers, editors, and artists self-inserting themselves into Superman comics?

Gonterman? Marissa Picard?


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Super Monkey on September 08, 2005, 09:40:31 AM
Not to mention all those Earth-Prime stories. Some on this very site.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Great Rao on September 08, 2005, 09:56:06 AM
According to Elliot S! Maggin, he and Cary Bates took it to an extreme in order to prevent such things from ever happening again (see this interview (http://superman.nu/tales2/whotook/maggintalks.php)):

Quote from: "Elliot S! Maggin"
The most fun we had doing this was on the JLA/JSA crossover that we both appeared in.  We did the whole 24-page second script from scratch in two-and-a-half hours.  I believe that record stands.  The idea was for our self-promotion to be so egregious that people would be grossed-out and never put themselves into scripts again.  Grant Morrison easily outstripped our egregiousness and as far as I can tell his record still stands too.


:s:


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: Captain Kal on September 08, 2005, 10:33:55 AM
The creation of Earth-Prime, to allow real world characters like Schwartz, Bates, and Maggin to interact with the DCU super-heroes was inspired.  But they were still just other characters in the books.

Morrison's take on Animal Man was he was indeed the writer of the comics and was essentially the god of the fictional universe he controlled.  That was a very different take than Maggin/Bates, albeit it was a more accurate representation of the relationship the creators had with their fictional works.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: JulianPerez on September 08, 2005, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: "TELLE"
I know I could google this or look it up in the wikipedia but I'm interested in this new (to me) genre of "self-insertion fanfic".  Is it strictly a fanfic thing or has the term been applied to "pro" writing before?  And how is it different from, say, Dave Sim in Cerebus, Steve Gerber in Howard the Duck #16, or, for that matter, Jack and Stan in FF, and various DC writers, editors, and artists self-inserting themselves into Superman comics?

Gonterman? Marissa Picard?


Remember later on, that you asked for it.  :D

I'm sure you've probably come across some self-insertion fanfic but didn't know what it was called before. It's a story where a fairly transparent stand-in for the author (usually called a "Mary Sue" or "Marty Sue" depending on the gender) who experiences transparent wish-fulfillment desires, like joining and then saving the Avengers and getting it on with the Scarlet Witch. This is also found in stories where a never before encountered crewmember with an attractive heart-shaped face saves the Starship Enterprise.

While these sort of daydreams are rather normal, nobody finds these interesting except their authors.

By far the most mind-destroying are the ones written by fangirls concerning their idols. In these, they encounter their hero (be it Johnny Depp or Justin Timberlake) who is so idealized to the point they cannot possibly be real, and they have a purely asexual relationship. (end of a very long sigh) Whatever happened to the days of good old fashoined groupie skankiness?

I was being facetious when I compared Grant Morrison's appearance in ANIMAL MAN to a self-insertion fanfic, but his appearance did indeed had the stink of lack of professionalism and self-promotion about it. Perhaps the significant difference is that Stan and Jack's appearances were limited to two cute little scenes where they're thrown out of the Invisible Girl and Mr. Fantastic's wedding by goons, but when Grant shows up in ANIMAL MAN, suddenly the world stops and it becomes all about HIM.

Gonterman is considered the "Ed Wood" of the internet, and speaking from personal experience he deserves every bit of his legendary reputation. His writing style is like an express train full of things designed to hurt your mind. But don't take my word for it:

http://www.commuterbarnacle.com/gonterman/

See for yourself!


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: The Spider on September 09, 2005, 02:08:16 PM
Here's another Morrison interview:

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/features/112602239631900.htm

This part of the interview might be of some interest:

Quote
Offenberger: How is All-Star different from what Marvel is doing with their Ultimate line?

Morrison: As far as Superman is concerned, we’re not re-doing origin stories or unpacking classic narratives. We don’t go back to the beginning again, we start from where our Superman is RIGHT NOW and get straight into the action - almost as if he's had 20 years of alternative continuity going on behind the scenes of John Byrne's revision in 1985 - on a different Hypertime line, if you like. I'm trying to think of it as the re-emergence of the original, pre-Crisis Superman but with 20 years of history we haven't seen.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: The Spider on September 09, 2005, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: "JulianPerez"

To be *totally* fair, though, Morrison's ANIMAL MAN was better than it was under Paul Kupperberg, but MY GOD, it would have been better canceled, too.



I can't help but think I've read this somewhere before.  Except with DOOM PATROL instead of ANIMAL MAN.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: JulianPerez on September 09, 2005, 03:49:05 PM
Quote from: "The Spider"
I can't help but think I've read this somewhere before. Except with DOOM PATROL instead of ANIMAL MAN.


It was first written in an online article I read some time ago, and I thought it was pretty witty. The guy that wrote it also was not a big fan of Grant Morrison.

Also, thank you for the correction: it was Paul Kupperberg that wrote DOOM PATROL (another comic written by Morrison), not ANIMAL MAN. I actually feel a little guilty about that; Kupperberg's Krypton miniseries was fairly interesting.


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: TELLE on September 12, 2005, 07:48:40 PM
Quote from: "JulianPerez"

Gonterman is considered the "Ed Wood" of the internet, and speaking from personal experience he deserves every bit of his legendary reputation. His writing style is like an express train full of things designed to hurt your mind. But don't take my word for it:

http://www.commuterbarnacle.com/gonterman/

See for yourself!


Thanks Julian, I will look that up someday when I need a laugh.  Can I assume Marissa Picard is one the mysterious crew members who save the Enterprise?

There is a similar-sounding fan fic writer named Doc Nebula who's life is very interesting.

And let's not forget our own prolific Dark Mark!


Title: Re: Exclusive Grant Morrison Interview
Post by: JulianPerez on September 13, 2005, 12:46:50 AM
Of special note: in Gonterman's "masterpiece," Sailor Moon: American Kitsune, he interrogates the Power Rangers villains by threatening to give them concentrated AIDS kept in a plastic bag. Words fail me.

Yeah, you got it, TELLE! Marissa Picard's stories are not only worse than you imagine, they're worse than you CAN imagine. I've never been able to find her stories in anything other than Mystery Science Theater 3000 style parodies aimed at masochists. I'd Google her, but I'd rather not tempt fate.

Doc Nebula's fanfiction is strange to the point of cognitive dissonance because it is occasionally very imaginative, has the occasional good idea (the idea of a mutant with a sense of spacial relations: an interesting and well-considered power, as is the idea that Magneto stole his forcefield technology from the Kree, for example), and has high production value, yet nonetheless they are emotionally stunted, self-aggrandizing, totally transparent self-insertions. It's like a well-polished, solid gold piece of Bat Guano.

Doc Nebula (Darren Madigan) though, is very funny, inspirational, and lucid in many of his commentaries. I find I quote him almost without knowing it. He'd fit right in on this board. I mean, he hates John Byrne, how bad could he BE? He's also one of the few people online that give Steve Englehart the major props this criminally underrepresented genius sorely deserves. Just try to ignore the articles where he talks about a dead woman that was rude to him at a party in the 1980s, or where he claims that continuity is a good idea because it allows him to travel to the Marvel Universe to become a hero himself.