Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Say, it's 1985, and you were given the opportunity to do what you want with Superman. What would you have done?

This is my own fantasy, feel free to do your own....

I would have kept the Silver Age Superman.  I would have accepted Kara's death, in CRISIS, and used it to give some depth to Superman, as Bucky's death (until recently) gave depth to Captain America. In fact, I would have slowly, over the course of a year started getting rid of other survivors of Krypton.

   You see---and I can't believe I'm saying this---to a certain extent, I think Byrne had a good idea, making Superman the lone survivor of Krypton. It's hard to feel it's a tragedy when literally millions survived.  I just hate the way he DID it.  Elliott Maggin wrote a good story about returning Kara's body to her parents, wring the heartstrings---we have a chance to get some depth to the character, and instead, Byrne makes him FORGET KARA EVER EXISTED????

   I think Moore's ending for Krypto was quite good. I think Krypto should have died defending Superman, and have us see a scene where Superman was crying over Krypto, his beloved childhood companion and pet. Have Krypto's death MEAN something.

    Then, have Superman check in the Phantom Zone---and be startled to see it depopulated. All the criminals cleared out....

    Find the dead body of Beppo, the super-monkey, in Africa, and wonder what could have killed Beppo....

    And then have him wait for the next time Rokyn/Kandor is supposed to enter our dimension---and have it not show up....

    That way Superman is left EFFECTIVELY the only Kryptonian, but with a  maddening mystery on his hands.  That way it doesn't negate the appearance of the Phantom Zone and Rokyn in the Legion, (we can assume that Rokyn and the Phantom Zoners have been captured/diverted, not really killed---but SUPERMAN won't know that, thanks to the post-hypnotic suggestion that leaves him largely ignorant of his future-knowledge)  but leaves him wondering who murdered Beppo, who's getting other Kryptonians---and when will they come for him?

   I would have moved in Lois and Superman's relationship, but not get them all the way to marriage. Have Superman discover, not his long-awaited way to give Lois full super-powers, but to make her at least as INVULNERABLE as he---which is all they need to protect her against his enemies, right?

     They think. So they get engaged....

     Only to have Brainiac show up, put Lois in one of those impenatrable force shields of his, and TAKE HER AWAY to another part of the cosmos. For us to occasional see the invulerable Lois, beating on the barrier, begging for Superman to come save her....

      But she could be anywhere in the universe....
   
      Good luck, Kal.  We'd see him trying to find Brainaic, but unwilling to leave Earth completely undefended, even for Lois....torn in two by duty and love...

      I'm also a fan of the Golden Age Superman and the lower power levels.  I liked what Denny O'Neil did in the "Sand-Superman" sequence trying to lower his power, but I hated it when Superman comlained he could ONLY leap tall buildings with a single bound---geez, I can't even leap ONE building.  (Unless it's an anthill.) So I'd have some enemy like the Parasite succeed in draining Superman of MOST of his powers, but  Superman breaking free soon enough to retain the 1938-level powers, and have about six months of adventures at THAT power level before his power builds back up....

       What about the rest of you? What would YOU have done?---Al

Quick comment ...

Yeah, I heard one wag state it as it was getting to the point with Kryptonian survivors that it seemed the only ones who did die were Jor-El and Lara.  The seemingly endless stream of survivors and artifacts from Krypton was already beyond ridiculous.

But I'd do it similar to the E-2 Krypton where only two survivors actually made it instead of inventing ways to gradually knock off the existing ones.  It's a reboot so take advantage of it.

Yeah, and keep Superboy in Superman's past.

Sorting out Krypton's level of technology and space travel ability would be a good thing for sorting out this "Last Son of Krypton" mess:

If Kryptonians were sufficiently space-faring, why wouldn't they figure out that they have powers and abilities far beyond those of normal men once they leave Rao?  Why wouldn't there be a lot of survivors, even if they didn't figure out that they were superpowerful away from their solar system?  

If Kryptonians weren't terribly space-faring, why would they be so advanced technologically in other areas that would seem to be even more complex, like projecting people into other dimensions?  

What are Krypton's interactions with the other "big" races in the DC Universe?  Being superpowerful under a yellow sun, is there a reason that some other race like the might not have figured this out and used the Kryptonians as some kind of glorified power battery?  Or perhaps the other races know just how powerful they are away from Rao and have deliberately isolated them?  Perhaps the Guardians planted a "status quo" gene in them so they wouldn't be inclined to leave (with only the -El line being able to be really innovative)?  Don't assume an isolated Krypton.  Figure out why they're isolated.  

What's the deal with Daxam?  

When you address these questions, then you can figure out how to get to the amount of Kryptonians you want to have around and why.  Personally, I like "more than one or two" and "less than hundreds or millions".  How could you NOT have General Zod, especially after Stamp's performance in Superman II?

I think that is a very narrow, seflish, and childish point of view, if you don't want to write stories with certain characters, just don't use them, there is no need to kill them off, just because you don't like them. Later on a new writer can come in and write great stories with characters that you didn't know what to do with. Why ruin it for everyone else?

I think what Al was getting at was the tragedy behind Krypton's destruction is cheapened and lessened if a plethora of survivors in ever-increasing numbers existed.  If only a few survived it underscores the tragedy and Superman's isolation which is one of his driving motivations.

Yeah, we could easily decide to ignore the other characters.  But that doesn't mean their effect on the tragedy can be ignored too.

On a related note, Byrne did make it possible for Krypton's destruction to be more tragic and meaningful ... only to negate that with his making Byrned Krypton a sterile dystopia seemingly worthy of being destroyed, and making Clark more a man of Earth in his motivations to becoming a super-hero and only learning of Krypton's fate many years after dawning the cape.  I swear, the Byrned One really doesn't get it ...

Note that a very similar formula worked for the Superman movie, and the Golden Age Superman didn't find out about Krypton until he was an adult.  I don't think Superman has to know at birth that he's a Kryptonian orphan to feel like an outsider.  The powers and knowing he came from a mysterious rocketship will do that.

Just to throw in here for a bit (I'll post my ideas at a later time)..

If you were in a position where you didn't have to reboot then you could simply reduce the amount of appearences of the other Kryptonians and such. Sometimes cleaning up clutter doesn't meaning throwing things way as much as storing them neatly for later use.

Just taking Krypto as an example, you could do something akin to what they had going with Krypto in current comics where he guards the Fortress.

Or even better, take a cue from the Krypto cartoon by Paul Dini where he's basically staying with a boy from Earth who finds him and becomes his best freind.

All things about "realism" aside, I thought it was a rather elegant approach because it allowed Paul Dini to still use the Superman and Krypton created for STAS and Krypto is essentially the little white dog we see Kal-El playing with in the pilot move.

Only in the series, things are drawn obviously in a much cartoonier fashion and theres a different tone. I think it allows you to sort of take or leave Krypto at your leisure while having a doorway into Superman for the very,very young reader. Taht combined with the smartly woven origin for Kara In-Ze makes Superman still the last son of Krypton because after all, Krypto is a dog and Supergirl is from a neigboring world.

Then if and when you'd have an adventure with him in the Superman book he would be drawn a little less funny and we wouldn't be privy to his thoughts.  When the adventure is over, Krypto goes back to being Kevins dog again or fighting crime alongside Ace the Bathound.

Different books with different purposes with a mindful eye as to how things work when something is brought from one book and into another for the duration of the adventure.

There's two ways I would approach this:

1: The first is to simply have things move forward after the Crisis. Supergirl will have died, but she would still have existed and be remembered for her sacrifice. The survivors of Kandor wouldn't have made Superman any less "special," especially since they were all located on Rokyn, which was in another dimension! I'd still use Krypto for the occassional strory, but I wouldn't use any of the other super-pets. I wouldn't kill them off or state that they never existed (that would be wrong), I just wouldn't use them. If some later writer wanted to he could write a story featuring them. I'd keep Brainiac in his cool cyber-organic form and feature him in many of Superman's stories, ditto for Mongul and Darkseid. I'd have Luthor "go straight" and form LexCorp (a Maggin invention)--I wouldn't have this go on as long as it did post-Crisis, though. It would last five years at the most and then scientist Lex would return.

As for the Phantom Zone criminals, I wouldn't have changed them much. They're a rich source of credible villains and gained great popularity after the Superman movies. Besides, it's just a cool idea. The Phantom Zone was such a creative idea and was far ahead of its time. It just makes sense that a society like Krypton would create such an effective way of dealing with hardened criminals, rather than just killing them.

As for the Earth-2 Superman and Earth-Prime Superboy, they'd still have adventures in their "paradise" world. There would be no fear of them crossing over to the mainstream DCU. Their adventures would be continued in their respective worlds, as if the Crisis never happened. This is my first approach, the second involves a reboot.

2: This approach is a full reboot. This would be different from DC's reboot in that there would not be pre-Crisis events that still happened in this continuity. Many would still remember them, however. Superman would, in fact, have dreams of the Pre-Crisis DCU, especially of Kara. This would be Alexander Luthor's gift to him. Barry Allen would still be the Flash and Wally West would be his sidekick, Kid Flash. Basically, things would start over from day one and heroes would actually age (slowly) in this reality.

As for the Earth-2 heroes, they would exist in the same paradise as the Earth-2 Superman. Their stories could still be told without any crossovers. The same is true for the Earth-Prime Superboy. The Legion would claim to be inspired by a "Superboy," but Kal will not have become Superboy in this continuity. But who would this Superboy be--the Legion doesn't know, as records from that time period are rare and often have contradictions. What is clear is that this Superboy DID exist, but where he came from is unknown. Eventually, I'd establish this Superboy as Kal's son (in a future that may or may not happen) and he would join the Legion (also a future that may or may not happen).

But what about Superman's origin? That's where there would be some big changes. Krypton would still be a utopia and all that, but the reason Superman has powers would be different. They would not come from Sol's energy or lighter gravity, but instead from Kryptonian evolution and genetic engineering (the fear that replaced radiation). Kryptonians would have evolved naturally to "leap tall buildings in a single bound" and have the other Golden Age Superman's powers. They would later improve these powers through genetic engineering. Krypton would still have a red dwarf star (called "Rao"), but their planet would be similar to our own in size and gravity. Once the Kryptonians started experimenting on themselves, the Guardians of the Universe "bonded" them to their planet, preventing them from leaving. They also gave the Daxamites their weakness to lead and the Martians their weakness to fire.

A word of the Daxamites, if I may. Daxam would be a sort of Counter-Krypton, hidden behind Rao. Their evolution would be similar to Krypton's, including their use of genetic engineering, only their powers would be inferior to Kryptonians. This is all unlikely, but not too unlikely if you consider the nature of Superman. As for Mon-El, Superman would never meet him in the present. Lar Gand would instead be a space explorer poisoned by lead and returning to Daxam. There he would be frozen until a cure could be found--it would be, one thousand years later by Brainiac 5.

Back to Krypton. The planet would adopt a very rational and altruistic state of mind. All decisions would be made by an elected council, of which Jor-El was a member. Jor-El discovered that Krypton's core was unstable after geological testing. Jor-El goes to the council with his findings, saying that he has discovered a way to remove the genetic bond between Kryptonians and their planet--unfortunately, it can only be accomplished by changing the genetic structure of unborn children (which Jor-El has done with his newborn son, Kal-El). Jor-El suggests having all pregnant women expecting to have their unborn children altered and then sent to other worlds. He suggests that the rest of Kryptonians place themselves in the Phantom Zone, which their children can rescue them from later. No one believes him, of course, and they even mock him. The story is the same from here, with Kal-El (and Kara Zor-El) being sent to Eartha (or Terra).

Kal-El is an infant when he's sent to Earth, and he spends almost two years in his spaceship. During this time, he is instructed by a program created by his father and mother. This teaches him morals and the history of his planet. Since he's still young, he only remembers his language, the names of his parents, his own name, and the name of his planet. Later, at age twelve, the ship downloads the full history of Krypton into his mind. Kal is found by the Kents and raised as Clark Kent. Shortly after he graduates high school, Jonathan Kent dies of a heart-attack. Kal soon builds the Fortress and alternates staying there and at college. He even equips the Fortress with Kryptonians artifacts stored in the Phantom Zone. When he turns twenty-five, he becomes Superman and joins the Daily Planet as Clark Kent.

As for villains, Lex Luthor is both a scientist and businessman. He practically made Metropolis "the city of tomorrow" with his inventions. He hates Superman because he is a threat to humanity's growth and is proof that Luthor isn't the greatest being on Earth. Brainiac is an android created by Vril Dox (and sees himself AS Dox) with a grudge against Earth for how they treated him when he crash-landed. He's now crazy and wants to control the universe "for its own good." Bizarro is a failed clone of Superman created by Lex. The creature is similar to Frankenstein's Monster. The Bizarro World will later re-appear, created by Mxyzptlk. Morgan Edge would still run Intergang, and the Toyman and Prankster would be members. Darkseid and Mongul would be the physical threats to Superman.

As for Clark Kent, he'd still be mild-mannered, shy, and unsure of himself. He wouldn't be a coward, however. Clark is non-confrontational. Lois would love Superman, while Lana would actually love Clark.

With Kandor, I have a very specific idea in mind. It would be populated not by Kryptonians or various aliens, but by the original sentient beings from Krypton--the Xan. The first Kandor was founded and inhabited by them, but during the war (no one knows how or who started it) with the Kryptonians, the city was banished into the Phantom Zone. This was caused by the Kryptonians and ended the war. Unfortunately, the Kryptonians never figured out a way to bring the city back or even view it. Superman encountered the city in a trip through the Zone, and even managed to be able to constantly view the city by linking it to a bottle similar to a bell-jar. He has sworn to restore the city, and has even given the Xan a reason to respect Kryptonians.

The only other surviving Kryptonian would be Kara Zor-El--Power Girl. Her ship would've taken a different route and she would've landed on Earth at about eighteen. She would adopt the Karen Starr identity and things would continue as normally. As for Krypto, he would still be here, but instead of a Kryptonian survivor, he'd be a super-powered canine created by Project Cadmus.

Whew. That's a lot to type. I actually have more ideas, but I'll leave it at that.

I would not have had Kara killed. If she had to go, I would not do the Secret marriage of Supergirl.

I would have Rokyn's dimensional shifting stop with Rokyn away from Earth's dimension during the Crisis, leaving Superman and Supergirl the only Kryptonians left in the universe.

That would have concluded the final cleaning up that was going on with the mythos before Crisis.  The Legion of Super Pets had faded into the background for the most part, save Krypto.  He was in the pages of Superboy.  The only other appearance of Krypto was during that three part where Supergirl and the Kandorianl Council had almost convinced him that he was born on Earth.  Krypto was the one great flaw in their plan.

I would have created a new villian tht took advantage of Superman's most unused weakness.  Gravitational forces.

I'd also throw Superman into situations where he has make hard decisions like his counterpart in Superfriends did.  The greatest good for the greatest number of people.

The Superfriends Superman showed he very much lived by that code when he deliberatly undid his previous saving of the planet Krypton and undid Earth's destruction(and probably other planets: Exxor, Thanagar, etc.).  Either way he would be directly responsible for the death of billions of people.

If the reboot was mandated, I would do it so that both Superman and Supergirl would have survived.  The reason Krypton didn't have much of a space program was due to corruption in their goverment.  They couldn't control people who were out in space exploring.    They had the tech, but it was buried by the Science Council.  They'd have a bit of a space program to handle work on the weather control sattelites(That would be how Kara would survive.  She was working on one of the sattleites when Krypton blew.  It would also send the Supermobile over to her, since it would be the vehicle she was using to work on the sattelites-minus the S shield and the hyper-efficent FTL drive that would be added much later.  A minor mod  and giving it a slower FTL drive than Kal's rocket would have Kara arrive after Superman was an adult)

Another thing I would do is to make Jonathan Kent a Jew (as a tribute to Superman's creators--Jonathan's grandparents would also have been immigrants) and Martha Kent a Protestant.

Earth-Prime's DC Comics knew they were depicting real events from other times & universes.  How creative would that feel?  In my scenario here DC does not do Crisis, because it does not happen in the DC Multiverse.  The "post-crisis" stuff is done as an "ultimate DC" of sorts.  As far as the DC guys are aware they are doing stories about a fictional universe.  Unknown to them, they are tapping into another multiverse.  If DC does do Crisis, they do it to give themselves an excuse for not using the "pre-crisis" multiverse anymore.


     Kandor being the capitol city of a planetary civilzation millenia in advance of earth should have a large population (50 million to 400 million or something like that).  But, that should still be less than 1% of krypton's total population.  The deaths of around 99% of the other kryptonians would still be a tragedy to Kal-El.  The citizens of Argo City died when Kal was an adult.  He didn't know about them untill after they died.  I imagine he had very mixed feelings about his uncle Zor.  Argo City had phantom zone projectors.  Jer-Em was sent to the zone shortly before the meteor shower.  Zor knew about Kal.  If Zor thought things through he would have sent everone in Argo City to the phantom zone.  When Kara arrived on earth, she would have had a pz projector with her.  As well as a record of all the Argo City citizens to be released from the zone asap.   I imagine that krypton was self quarentined.  Maybe the space program Jor was involved with was not krypton's first such effort?  Even a toddler (when under a yellow sun) had the power to destroy entire solar systems with ease.  Kal's telescopic vision allows him to view things in other solar systems, & possibly other galaxies as well.  What if his heat vision has the same range?  At least when used in concert with his telescopic vision.  Imagine in ancient times a group of kryptonian "astronauts" discover the power they have under a yellow sun.  One (or more) of that group is a toddler.  In a temper tantrum that child inadvertantly destroys several inhabitted solar systems.  The group immediately returns to krypton.  It's decided that kryptonians will never leave their planet again.  All record of their first space program is erased.  Only the priests have any knowledge of what happened.

On Earth-Dakota (an alternate universe extremely similar to the one outside your window, but in which DC's business decisions were controlled by me), the Crisis never happened.

Instead, DC, feeling generally hamstrung by half a century's worth of continuity -- much of which doesn't make a lot of sense by the more sophisticated standards of the time -- made the following decision:

Starting with the January, 1986 issues, all comics published by the company ceases to tell stories in the universes of Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-S, etc.  All storylines in all books came to completion as of the December, 1985 issue.

Beginning in January, 1986, all stories took place inside a single universe which is simply another parallel universe.  Internally, DC called it "Earth-0," though no story of the time ever referred to it as such.  From the perspective of the characters, theirs was the only universe they'd ever known.

There was an editorially-dictated five-year moratorium on any and all alternate universe stories.  So while the Earth-2 and Earth-1 Supermen still existed, there were no stories that involved them in any way for five years.

The January, 1986 lineup of DC titles were:

o  Superman:  solo adventures of the Man of Steel, published the first of every month.

o  The Adventures Of Superman:  solo adventures of the Man of Steel, published the 14th of every month.

o  Batman:  solo adventures of the Darknight Detective, published the first of every month.

o  Detective Comics:  solo adventures of the Darknight Detective, published the 14th of every month.

o  Wonder Woman:  solo adventures of Princess Diana, published monthly.

o  Green Lantern:  solo adventures of "space cop" John Stewart, a member of the GLC, published monthly.

o  Hawkman:  solo adventures of the winged aliens Katar Hol and his wife Shayera, published monthly.

o  Flash:  solo adventures of Wally West.

o  Adventure Comics:  a monthly title whose sole purpose is to introduce potential new super-hero characters.  The first six issues introduced J'onn J'onzz, Green Arrow and Black Canary (a team by design), Captain Marvel, the Question, Captain Atom and Doctor Fate.  The title was used to "try out" hero concepts to guage reader interest in a continuing title.

In March, 1986, the following titles were added:

o  The Brave and the Bold:  adventures of Batman teamed with a rotating guest character, published monthly.

o  Action Comics:  adventures of Superman teamed with a rotating guest character, published monthly.

o  World's Finest:  joint adventures of Superman and Batman, published monthly.

o  Sensation Comics:  adventures of Wonder Woman teamed with a rotating guest character, published monthly.

o  Justice Legion:  the adventures of a 30th-century super-team, not limited to teen-agers.  The futuristic version of the Justice League, but actually introduced before the Justice League titles in order to garner interest.  The origins of said team are lost to the mists of time, but there are legends of its beginnings a thousand years previously.

Then in July, 1986, to much fanfare, was introduced the following title:

o  Justice League:  a monthly title devoted to the teaming of the super-heros.  The first couple of adventures featured Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, J'onn J'onzz, Green Lantern, the Flash, and Hawkgirl (sans Hawkman).  By the third issue, however, it was decided by these characters that the League should be all-encompassing, and as new super-heros come on the scene, they should be approached for membership.

Consquently, Justice League on Earth-Dakota became similar to what we think of as the TV series Justice League Unlimited today.  It was a clearing house for all DC's superheros, whether they had their own book or not, and whether they were successful or not.  If a try-out in Adventure or All-Star Comics (see below) garnered no interest, they'd be relegated to background panels of Justice League.

Furthermore, note that by editorial decree, new super-hero characters were only to be found in the pages of either Adventure Comics or:

o  All-Star Comics.  A "try-out" title similar to Adventure Comics, except it would feature team-based adventures.  Some issues introduce new individual characters within the context of a Justice League adventure.  Some issues were adventures of sub-teams of the Justice League.  All-Star Comics was the springboard for the titles:

o  Justice League:  Outsiders:  a monthly featuring a sub-group of the League whose rotation varied but generally included characters who for various reasons didn't "fit in" with the usual League teams.  Basically a group that didn't ordinarily "work and play well with others."  The team was nominally "led" by the Question.

o  Justice League:  Doom Patrol:  a monthly featuring a sub-group of the League who were particularly unusual in some way.  The cast was essentially similar to the Doom Patrol of Earth-Reality's DCU.

o  Justice League:  Teen Titans:  a monthly featuring the adventures of the junior members of the Justice League.  Regular membership included Supergirl, Robin, Stargirl, Wonder Girl, and Aqualad.

Very rarely were characters in the Earth-Dakota DCU killed.  Instead, if interest waned, they were simply rolled back into the Justice League.  Titles and heros came and went as titles and heros do, but they always had the Justice League.  One might go years without seeing Hawk and Dove in a regular story, but they might be glimpsed wandering the Hall of Justice, ready for use in case a writer might be so inclined.

The most dramatic difference in the comics world of Earth-Dakota was the fact that, without Crisis On Infinite Earths as the template for annual company-wide cross-overs, such things never came into existence.  Cross-over adventures occurred either within the confines of the existing team-up titles or in All-Star Comics or a similar Justice League title created explicitly for the purpose of a cross-over story.

As for the Earth-0 Superman himself ...

Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the race of the Mathusians learned the secret of immortality, but at a cost.  They could become immortal, but only by sacrificing their ability to reproduce.  They did so, and became the self-styled Guardians.  They formed the Green Lantern Corps, which by 1986 had become the primary peace-keeping force in the galaxy.

A few thousand years ago, one of their number, Krona, ultimately broke away from the Guardians and decided to attempt to create a "successor" race.  he envisioned a race genetically superior in every way, immortal like the Guardians, but capable of reproduction.  Krona's work was deemed criminal by the Guardians, and he was outcast.

Working on his own, Krona went to the planet Krypton.  He conducted long-term experiments in genetic engineering and enjoyed great success.  His super-race was just that:  humanoid in appearance, extraordinarily intelligent, an extremely wide range of both active and passive senses, muscle tissue so dense that they were almost capable of negating gravity, and the ability to draw nourishment directly from certain wavelengths of their red sun.  While not immortal, they were extremely long-lived, with lifespans of several centuries not uncommon.

When the Guardians discovered what Krona had done, they punished him by banishment to some random alternate universe, never to return.  Realizing the potential for harm inherent in a super-race, successive Green Lanterns were charged with observing their development and reporting the the Guardians in the event they appeared to become aggressive.

By 1956, the Kryptonians had succeeded in producing a thriving and peaceful civilization.  They had colonized various moons and planets in their own solar system and were on the verge of discovering interstellar flight when the planet Krypton mysteriously exploded.  The Green Lantern of their sector could report no reason for this.  She did report, however, that just before the destruction of the planet an experimental spacecraft was launched.  It entered hyperspace just after the planet's destruction for an unknown destination, carrying in its wake a number of small chunks of the planet's debris.

The various Kryptonian colonies in their solar system, highly dependant on  Krypton for various resources necessary for their survival, slowly died out.  Only two colonies, the space stations of Kandor and Argo, appeared capable of continued life.  However Kandor itself mysteriously disappeared only a few years later.

Argo, on the other hand, appeared to be continuing a self-sufficiency, however an unexpected side-effect of the destruction of Krypton was the conversion of its rubble to a substance that was unusually toxic to Kryptonians.  Argo was ultimately punctured by Kryptonite meteorites, and the only survivor was a teenaged girl who was placed in an experimental spacecraft and launched into hyperspace.

The first Kryptonian spacecraft was that of Kal-El.  His spacecraft landed in a rural area of Kansas where it was found by the Kents, who "adopted" the child as their own.

Posessing of amazing abilities even as an infant, young Clark Kent grew in power.  The yellow sun was teeming with the wavelengths of light he'd been specifically engineered to use for sustinance, turning his body into a "power battery" that multiplied his enhanced genetics to a fantastic level.

There was no Superboy on Earth-0:  Clark began his career as an adult, totally ignorant of his Kryptonian heritage.  Only as Kryptonian artifacts found their way to Earth did he gain information about his past.

For example, there were unusual meteorites found across South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas from a 1956 strike.  These odd, green rocks would cause a peculiar form of blood poisoning.

The biggest key to unravelling his past was found in the arrival of Supergirl.  Clearly of the same genetic structure as Superman and carrying some of the same strange green meteorites as those found in 1956, it was concluded that she must come from Superman's planet of origin.  She could tell volumes about the destruction of Krypton and life on post-Krypton Argo.

The final key was provided when Brainiac, a "collector" of alien civilizations, arrived on Earth and attempted to make off with human cities.  He had absconded with the Kryptonian space station of Kandor, placing it in an area of spacial intangibility called the "Phantom Zone."  However, Brainiac's spaceship and transport equipment was destroyed while Superman fought him, making it impossible to bring the Kandorians back.  Superman nevertheless found a way to communicate with the Kandorians, at which time Superman learned the truth of both his origin and Krypton's destruction:

Making contact with Van-Zee of Kandor, Superman learned that in the last days of Krypton, his father Jor-El had been experimenting with creating hyperspacial wormholes.  What Jor-El couldn't have forseen were the unique circumstances under which Kronos had created the Kryptonian race.  His choice of the gravitationally-massive Krypton and its massive Red Giant sun were environmentally unique, yet combined with an additional womhole within these gravitational fields produced a horrifically unstable situation.

In short, Jor-El accidentally created a quantum black hole on the surface of the planet.

All of this would have been unknown, but for the fact that Van-Zee was an assistant of Jor-El's working from the Kandor space station.  He'd been in contact with Jor-El during his final experiments -- something he'd never divulged to the other Kandorians.

With only minutes to deal with the situation Jor-El placed his infant son in an experimental hyperspace craft and launched him toward Earth.  The planet was ripped to shreds, the black hole winking out of existence once the equipment that created it was destroyed.

At the end of this story, Superman was left in the situation of needing to find a way to restore the space station of Kandor from the Phantom Zone to real space, yet at the same time aware that if the Kandorians discovered the secret of what had happened to their planet, he and his new Kandorian friend Van-Zee might face a significant backlash.

And ... well ... that's what I'd've done, in the alternate universe of Earth-Dakota.  :D

Dakota Smith

Great ideas, Dakota. This is a really fun thread and it shows just how versatile the character of Superman can be. I might have to create another take on Superman myself.

On thr topic of Kandor, my thought: Superman and SuperGirl recieve an call from the UN requesting their presents ASAP. When they arrive they are told of a recently discovered planet on the far edge of our solor system that has a Green K core but otherwise could support life, the problems being it is so far away it would take earth ships 100's of years to reach it, and the planet is so large it gravity would crush a normaly earth being. Now the kicker is a grateful member of thier science team has developed an enlarging ray and the people in Kandor could live and thrive on the new planet. The problem with the enlarging dievce is it is powered by Gold K, which once used would strip the people of all thier super powers. The super cousns presnt this to the Kandorains, who vote to live on the new planet. Kal, Kara and Superman robot take the bottled city to the new planet. The plan being once the they reach the planet the robot will set the bottle down and activate the ray, leaving the cousins safely in orbit.

Once they arrive the robot starts to desend to the planet but somehow malfunctons and start burning up when entrying the atmosphere, before Kal can re act, Supergirl flies in to save the city from being destroyed in the fire and fall to planet surface. Having been exposed to the Green K, she begins to die, with no way to save her Kal watches as she turns on the enlarging ray, and hears her say, "I thougtht I lost my parents once, I couldn't live thru that again, Mom, Dad I love you" and she slowly dies as we watch the city expand behind her.  The final scene is the enlarge Kandorians building a memoerial to Kara and naming thier Karayn which were told translates in "Gift from Kara"  and Kal thinking to himself, there will never be a more noble woman, my dear sweet cousin who made made this universe a little less lonley for me.

Epilog, the Kandorians laying Kara's body in tomb designed to perserve her forever and the enlarging ray placed along side her, and we're pivleged to see a small crack exposing the Gold K............

Jeez, ask an easy question why don't ya? ;)

 If the DC editors had sat down with me and asked what I'd have done with the character these days , I would've kept things boiled down to a couple of concepts. Looking at what works and what doesn't.

 PRE-CRISIS ELEMENTS TO KEEP:

 1) Super-trinity of Kal-El, Kara Zor-El, and Krypto.

 2) Superman was Superboy in his past.

 3) 'Metropolis' Clark Kent as disguise.

 4) Lois Lane does not know Clark and Superman are the same man, and are not married.

 5) Krypton is destroyed, and beyond the Phantom Zone villains, the super-trinity are the last of their kind. Could work Kandor in later, but for the beginning of the run they're it for Krypton's heroic legacy.

 6) Krypton as utopia. Krypton was a gem of the universe, a thriving world that had found peace after generations of war, and had wonders both geographical and technological that were exceeded only by the Oans. Their loss was a tragedy to the galactic community, for while somewhat isolationist (in an effort to avoid contaminating other more primitive cultures) they provided a moral example to civilizations as Krypton's last son would to the people of Earth. Green Lanterns were one thing, but if the Kryptonians got involved it was BIG. Thus Krypton takes on a legendary resonance to the alien civilizations of the DCU, one more immediate than the mythical status of the Maltans/Oans/Zamarons. A cautionary tale some might say about putting all your eggs in one basket. . .


 ELEMENTS OF THE POST-CRISIS SUPERMAN TO KEEP:

 1) Ma and Pa Kent being alive. I like the fact that Superman treasures both sides of his heritage. I also like having Ma and Pa Kent around to allow for more of Clark's humanity. 'Metropolis Clark' is the real Clark's disguise, but he needs a place where he can just let that mask drop and be himself with other people, where he can be the man he was raised to be without having to drape himself in Kryptonian colors. His parents and their counsel provide him with a place of sanctuary more precious than even the Fortress of Solitude. He's not quite as dependent on them as he is in the post-crisis comics, but he loves his mom and dad and has them in his life.

 (Short list I know).

 ELEMENTS TO ADD (GENERAL):

 1) Superman as the morality of the DCU. He's the first superhero of the post-golden age era, and the most powerful. But more than anything else he's might for right. He's a just man who holds himself to a higher standard, who's dedicated himself to the ideals of Truth, Justice, and the American way of life. He's a fundamentally good man and while he may occasionally become troubled, he never falters when it comes time to do the right thing. He's not a killer either; a man who remembers the loss of an entire world would treasure life as no other, and he would do everything in his power to not only confront and halt evil but try to redeem those lost to it. As the Superman of the JLU cartoon put it ' I believe in redemption. I believe in second chances. But most importantly, I believe in my friends. '

 2) Superman as contented hero. I don't want to see my hero ridden with chest-thumping Angst. Superman should easily be one of the happiest people on Earth. How many of us could do what he does, helping people and seeing them safely through the day, to be in command of powers and abilities beyond those of mortal men? To be able to fend off the machinations of Brainiac, the menace of Lex Luthor, and the rampages of Titano? To be able to journey to alien worlds, through time, through alternate realities and to experience the depth and scope of the DC Universe in its awe-inspiring entirety? Superman should greet the uknown and the unexplored with a fundamental zest and a smile. The son of a scientist and an astronaut, he's got explorer's blood in his veins. He's not only a fighter for peace, but a scientist working to repay his adopted homeworld for all it's given him. Simply put, being Superman is fun.

 3) Lex Luthor as the greatest criminal mind of our time! Not a poor man's Kingpin. The Luthor-as-businessman model has been done to death. Yes, he built LexCorp to be his legitamite financial empire, but only because he was so monumentally bored he needed a suitable diversion. Lex is the Leonardo Da Vinci of supervillains. He's the guy the Thinker, the Joker, the Superman Revenge Squad all go to for the Plan. For the scheme. Because in a world of men with magic rings and dark knight detectives Lex is the ultimate in criminal genius. The ideas he jots down on a napkin in idle moments of reflection could make a petty crook a king. Lex needs Superman because Superman is the only person who consistently provides Lex with any sort of challenge.  Not that he'd ever admit it to himself or others, but Superman is the only person on Earth Lex considers his equal.

 That's all I've got for now, more later.

 -Def.

I have to ask why keeping the Kents alive is so important?

It seems so much more fundemental that they gave Clark a sound upbringing and he went off to find what he was truly meant to be...

No particular reason, save that I feel it thematically balances the scales a bit between Superman and Batman. Superman will always be missing his heritage, his world and place of belonging, but he has these two loving people who saw past the rocket and the growing strangeness of his abilities and accepted him for who he is. Apart from Kara and Krypto, they're the only ones who can really know him and accept him for who he is. That's a rare commodity in a life where so much of what he is day to day has to be hidden beneath a bushel.

 -Def.

Fair enough, it meant a lot to me that Clark went to Metropolis to meet his destiny after the death of his aged adoptive parents...that was a real connection between the ages for me, more meaningful than making them young again or living to his adulthood...but we all have our symbols, I guess... 8)

Heh, no worries M. I just like the fact that they're there and that they exist as an emotional resource. I think Birthright spoiled me on the notion of the Kents still being around. And the Animated series played them exceedingly well. It helps keep some of the man in Superman to me. :)

 -Def.

In the initial years of Superman, there was scarcely a difference between "found by a passing motorist and raised in an orphanage" and "found and raised by parents who live just long enough to send him onto his first real story".  It was just background filler to get to Superman as a man.  Their first names weren't consistently defined for the longest time.  

As his Smallville past started became more developed, when Ma and Pa Kent became more than deathbed speeches, it made less and less sense to just jettison them as background filler.  That's especially true since Superman already has a set of dead parents coming out the gate.  

Look at the Superman I movie.  Even with Pa Kent dead (and Ma Kent doing a silent Aunt May imitiation), he's still talking to Superman.  Why lose that?  The only reason he had to be dead was so he could be a booming voice in the heavens along with Marlon.  

Does Superman need Pa Kent to be dead to do death to tell him he's not a boy anymore, to send him off into the world?  With a fleshed out past, one in which Clark is raised to greatness, I just don't think that's the case.  As far as I can tell, anout the only purpose for their death would serve was to show that even a Superman isn't a god.  But that got so convoluted during pre-Crisis with alien space plagues and de-aging and whatnot where it just never really resonated with me.

Great answers, all of you! And no hard feelings to those who would have done it differently---the Krypto cartoon series shows there are still some things that could have been done with Krypto (I actually like that he has a normal kid as a master) and I can understand the point that offing characters is often a waste.  I like Superman as pretty much the only survivor, but the only way to make him FEEL that is to get rid of the survivors he knows---and not forget about it.

I also agree with those of you who disliked Byrne's sterile THX-1138 type Krypton, in some ways a rip off of Asimov's Solaria.  I have to like a world to regret its passing...and the Silver Age Krypton was a fascinating place.

I DO think Byrne was right to emphasize the human heritage and upbringing of Superman.  I always thought the Silver Age writers should have had Kara swearing by Rao, but Superman back to "Great Scott!" or whatever.  The Kandorians should have regarded Kal-El the way we regard Tarzan, a human being raised by brutish, primitive inferiors---but Kara was raised in a Kryptonian culture until age fifteen. She should have been much more "alien", much more a "stranger in a strange land" than Superman, who was raised in Smallville.

Again, great answers!---Al

When you think about Ma and Pa Kent didn't have to die, at least not on Earth-1, since he was already Superboy.

On Earth-2 Clark became Superman because on his death bed he made a promise to Pa, an incredible scene that is weaken if he was already a superhero, so it only truly works here, less so on Earth-1.

Actually, I prefer the Kents dead---it makes Clark seem a little more childish, with his parents to run home to every other issue....but it's not a major point with me, just personal preference.---Al

I don't like him running home all the time, just for their birthday, mother's day, father's day, etc.

How often would you visit your parents if you could do so instantaneously, especially if you could see that they were home and not 'indisposed'?  How often would you call on the phone, if you could just be there faster than the phone system could process your touch tones?

One thought I've had is the idea that Clark leaves Lana and his family to become a man because he can't yet fully control his ever-growing powers.  He's afraid he might hurt them, so he goes off on a quest to learn about himself and learn to deal with the awesome power he has.

I like my Kents good and dead!

It's very difficult for a person who has grown up in a rural area to just uproot and go to the big city, where there is a lack of fresh air, fresh vegetables, sunlight, and ability to see the stars at night. (I kind of like Clark's obsession with the stars in Smallville...it suits him.)

There needs to be a paradigm shift... something has to happen to disconnect him from Smallville. His character needs a reason to cut off ties with Smallville, to feel that he "can't go home again." While he also kind of shuns Pete and Lana in leaving Smallville, the death of the Kents justifies it.

I like the idea of the Kents occasionally needing to be there to help out Superman -- like when they used Kryptonite against the Eradicator, or when Jonathan had to bring Superman's soul back from the dead.

That said, for the Kents to work well as supporting characters, they need more development -- more background and motivation. If they are just going to be uber-nice semi-idealized parents who only ever want what's best for all concerned, then they are probably better off dead.

Welcome to my Earth-Thinker version:

We open up with the usual Jor-El is telling the Council about Krypton's up-coming end. Instead of the usual, Jor-El (and the readers of Earth-Thinker) got a suprize, the masked Science Controller--"The Main Brain of the Science Council", argees with Jor-El, with out any solid proof. They is a little clues--the other members joked that Jor-El is having affair with the Science Controller, but Science Controller tells her saying "her word is law--and one against her law might up in the Phantom Zone." Jor-El is offer a ride to her house.

We learn that Science Controller--to prevent bad Kryptonians, were mask to prevent trouble. In Science Controller's car, she removes her mask, revealing a 15-year female genius from Argo City, Kara Zor-El, Jor-El's neice. Being famous is driving Kara buggy, she wanted to be a normal Kryptonian, but having complete a entire school era in only five Krypton years, she's been hail as super-genius by the entire Kryptonian--making her feel like a out-case.

Of course, Kara gets a call from the Council, Lt. Lesla-Zod, a Council member forces the 'Science Brain Affair Rule' on them. Zod stated that only one male and one female can leave Krypton--between the ages of two and seventeen.  Jor-El has his three-year son, Kal-El, ready for lauch as Kara has a idea for he second person--herself. The only thing need is to find a planet. The planet pick is the yellow sun planet of Earth.

Both rockets are lauch at the same time, Kara radios that she will find and take good care of Kal-El--but Kara end up in a time vortex.

In the meantime, Kal-El's enters Earth's systems--and powers up radar protection--and lands in outside of Smallville, Kansas where Kal-El is picked by the Kents. On Earth-Thinker, Kal-El had all of his super-powers before--with the expect of the time travel power--but had another power-the power to break any non-important body--including the skin--which according to fans of Superman is called "Control Break". Being powerful and bored, Kal-El become Superboy at age 9.

Durning a space trip into a far planet in far corner of the galaxy, the Kent die of a old age--but are replied by similar people. They turned out to be Danvers--cousins to the late Kent--and was faking the Kents in hope to make sure Clark isn't worried about them. Superboy reveals to them is entirehistory.  Soon after this, the Danvers become the new guardians of Clark Kent.

At soon as Clark Kent completes college, he goes to Metroplis and become it's protecter, Superman. He gets the following: the mad science weapons of Lex Luthor, the dangerous toy of the the Toyman, the deady humor of the Prankster, the magic mayhem of Mr. Myxzpltlk, the Kryptonite powered cyborg, Mettalo.

When Superman hits age 25, a Kryptonian rocket enters Metroplis during a charity event. Inside is blonde hair Kryptonian, named Kara Zor-El. Kara Zor-El now is disappointed again--she had another reason beside her genuis--her new found super-power. Kal-El has a idea for her--but first he need to some checking. Kal-El takes her to his friend, Bruce "Batman" Wayne's Bat-Cave, where Bruce tries to X-ray her--but fails.  [In my universe, X-ray can't work on Krypton--even with the new 'Control Break' power-] Kal-El wanted to make sure she was a human faking super-powers. Kara is give to the Danvers, who give her the name of Linda Lee. Of course, being normal human drives Kara batty--so Kara expects a offer from Kal-El, to become Supergirl, his partner.  Kara arqees with that.

Soon after, the first Kryptonain creeps arrived--Gen. Zod and Lt. Lesla-Zod. It's seemed that "Science Brain Affair Rule" was to just to prevent all of Krypton from following the two of them in space. Superman ends up battling Gen. Zod and Supergirl ends up battling Lt. Lesla-Zod--but the Zods up in the Phantom Zone.

So what do you think of Earth-Thinker? Good as a Superman or as bad as Lex Luthor?

I don't think I like this version of Kara. Zoning people for questioning her dictates (or even for gossiping about her) isn't something a respectable leader would do.

Your intention is probably that we should like and trust this character because she's based on a character whom we already like and trust. It doesn't work, because your version of Kara doesn't act like the Kara we know.



...except on Thursdays and alternate Sundays, but not when there's an "R" in the month.

No, really, that rule is incredibly contrived. How would they justify having a rule like that? Besides, I thought Kara's word was law. If she doesn't like this rule, why doesn't she just tell them to change it?



Since when do the Kents take space trips?



Ooooookay, you pretty much lost me here. Kara is disappointed because she's lost her powers? How did this happen? Wouldn't that remove her inability to be X-rayed as well? And why bother going to the Batcave? He could use his X-Ray vision, or just borrow a machine at a hospital. Finally, how can Kara possibly be Supergirl if she doesn't have powers?



The concept needs work, and you desperately need a good copy editor.

Gary, YOU can understand Superthinker/Dr. Thinker?  :hail:

If you have read any of his fanfics, you'd know that is normal for his writing.

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/17673/

You can read about him here:
http://www.svamcentral.org/ewic/docs/MSTing-FAQ.txt


I can't understand him.

He seems to have improved since those days. That last post was kinda sorta comprehensible. :)

I've not read any of his fanfiction directly, but I have read Megane 6.7's MSTings (http://www.nabiki.com/mst/megane67/mst/) which include his stuff among others.

You can read about him here:
http://www.svamcentral.org/ewic/docs/MSTing-FAQ.txt



Remeber he is a really nice guy, so please don't make fun of anyone here, that is not allowed on this board.

That's why I suggested instability with his powers.  Good ol' rebellion would work as well.  You see a bit of that in the Smallville TV series.  The sad part is, there aren't many people who could do "rebel teen" Clark very well.  It'd almost hurt me to read it because it'd be so screwed up.

Earth-Thinker (Round 2)


It all starts 10 years before the end of Krypton. Krypton was faced with a crime master mind named "Black Zero". Black Zero crimes goes all over illegal
Krypton activity--such as mutanting animals and faking of Kryptonian body organs. Out of opinions, the Science Council create
a Krypton Science Agency to find out who's Black Zero by any means--both legal and illeagal. It's turns out that KSA discovers with in month,
"Black Zero" is Gen. Zod. Gen. Zod is tried--and is proved guilty in the court--thanks to KSA's evidances. Before Zod is sent into the Phantom Zone
as punishment of this crime, he was asked if he had any last works by Jor-El II. Zod laughs as he states the following words: "You may have defeat me--but my defeat
will be the end of Krypton." Zod's words haunt Jor-El II's for most of the life.

Two year after Zod's trail, Jor-El II and his brother, Zor-El are hired by the Council to discovered the reason behind the reason that Krypton been
having shaking.. Normal Kryptonians belive the KSA is history, but a few members of the Council belive the KSA is looking into all matters
of Kryptonian--including the quake shakes. It's takes Jor-El II and Zor-El years to figure out the reason--Krypton's core is being drestory--but they don't
have proof. Lucky, KZ, a member of the KSA shows up--and reveals the facts: Gen. Zod left a mutanted Kryptonain huzang--a human-looking
Kryptonian insect-the base lifeform for all Kryptonians. KZ aslo explains--Doomsday--the KSA's code name for the creature--with finally break out
soon--in a week time. The Council notes it's going to be impossible to get everyone off Krypton or into the Phantom Zone. Jor-El has
answer on that. He had builted two rocket ships before the shut down of the Space Mission Center. The Council worried about the effect
on the very young and very old Kryptonians--make a ruling that Jor-El II and Zor-El can't choice anyone younger then 3 years old and no one older then seventeen. KZ  umasked to revealing a suprize to Jor-El II (and Earth-Thinker's readers)--KZ is Kara Zor-El. Kara Zor-El tells that she's going the one of the rocket's cargo. Jor-El II has plans for the other rocket--and tells Zor-El is son, Kal-El is three years--he's going in the other rocket. The Council argess--on one contained--the planet, dinosuared-covered Earth is used, and of course, both rockets are soon lauched with their Kryptonian cargo. Kara's rocket is a bit faster--and hits a time vortex before it can closed--meanwhile Kal-El's Kryptonian rocket pasts thought another time vortex out side of Krypton's galaxy.

Soon, Kal-El's rocket computer scans and protects Kal-El's rocket ship from information sattilites in Earth's orbit. Kal-El lands on Earth, in Smallville, Kansas,
were he is founded by the Kents--who adopts him as they own child--as they named him Clark. Clark's powers show themselves quicky--and after quiet a few years--Clark Kent decides to become Superboy. He meets Lena and Lex Luthor, who are genius but in different fields--Lena is a genuis with bussiness, while Lex is a sciencist genius. Soon, there is the famous "fire burns off Lex's hair" that turns Lex into a revenge-sneaking mad doctor. After a year, Lena sercetly discover the reason--the Lex's body is has a rare diease called Kazeingaz. Kaziengaz makes the brain cells super-weak to heat it. Under FBI agents, Lena restore the Lex's brain to it's normal state. Lex
is back to the state he was before his--and he even makes up with Superboy. Depsite some failures by Superboy, Lex brains stays cool off thanks to Lena's work--unknownto Superboy then.

A year later, Larry Luthor, Lex and Lena father's returns. He explains that he's not really saleman, but CEO of a company called Larry Electric
Inc. Since both Lex and Lena were bored in the same year--thought not in the same month--he had a hard time picking his replacement for the company
but events of the previous year, maked it clear that it's going to be Lena Luthor to replace him. Very angry, Lex's brain gets heated up again--and once again
Lex turns to evil--this time for good. For a few months, people tried to find Luthor, but they aren't successfully--even Superboy tries a few time. Soon, all of them
give up. At the same, Larry teaches Lena handle he handle his bussiness.

While Clark is finishing up his last year of high-school in Smallville, he discovers a few of remoted control weapons in the Superboy defeated had a familar making
of LXLR: a code hat reveals Lex Luthor maded the weapons. Lex had been hidding in a lead-cave just out of Smallville. Superboy is handle to catch Lex and
bring him jail for all the crime he did.

Clark Kent, Lana Lang, and Lena Luthor head off in different directions. Clark Kent to Metroplis U in Metroplis, Lana Lang to Midvale College in Midvale, and Lena Luthor
to recently named, "Lena Electric Inc." HQ in Vanton, New York. Soon, Clark completes the college and becomes a journalist for the "Daily Planet" and meets up with Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen & Tanya Smith. Depsite Lois's ridicous attempts to get her married Superman, and Tanya's troublesome attempts to proof
Clark Kent and Superman are the one and same--Superman has it's too easy with the regualar crooks. Soon, Superman gets
his super-villains such as the following: Lex Luthor, Brainic, Mettalo, Mr. Mxyzpltk, The Toyman, & the Prankster. He aslo joins
the Justice League of America.

About 40 years after his landing, Superman is doing a charity event, when he discovers a rocket heading his way. He is
able to catch the rocket ship--and discovers his neice, Kara Zor-El, inside it. Kara Zor-El is pretty happy to meet her nephew
again--but is shocked that he aged durning her trip. He turns to Smallville to discover that the Kents are dead--but he meets and
discovers that Kent's cousins, the Danvers know about Clark "Superman" Kent--and Kara is given the Danvers--who gives them the
name of Linda Lee Danvers. Soon, after a year of training Kara Zor-El becomes Supergirl, Superman's side-kick...

...And this is where the Earth-Thinker's regular comic book stories begans: