Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Administrator's note: this thread has been split off from this one (http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1908).

To lighten this up a bit here....

John Byrne fired... yet again this time from Superman

If the return of Earth-2 Superman and Earth-Prime Superboy wasn't enough, John Byrne just got fired from Action Comics due to low sales just like every other book he has worked on as of late.

He is very bitter about it all, and he has even tried to twist it as if he wasn't really fired but "layed off", and somehow blamed Wizard for fans not liking him anymore. It's funny and sad at the same time.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6048

Well, this being Byrne aside, Wizard is a rag for sure and the level of influence they have over what people read is nothing short of scary. The only thing scarier is their idea what passes for comics journalism. Ever notice how much of the magazine seems geared toward telling you what to like and making up your mind for you while making snarky comments about anything that doesn't fit in with that? Wonder if they could ever stop suckling Frank Millers teet for five little minutes. Apparently the accomplishments of guys like Bob Kane, Bill Finger, all the way up to Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers don't matter. It's only the Bat-@$$hat Miller crapped out from his cynical psyche that counts now.

Simone's writing isn't bad.  I feel bad for Gail Simone if she was blindsided.  

Action's sales didn't suffer under Simone/Byrne.  At worst, they were flat.  At best, they were up a bit (Impotent Crisis bumped sales up a bit overall).  The sales figures are at:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.dc.universe/msg/9e81995753c71146?&q=dc+sales+august+2005

I really think that Wizard's power and influence is highly overrated. I don't read the main Wizard magazine (well, not in quite a few years), but I do regularly buy Anime Insider (which is quite good). From what I've seen, it's actually become popular on the Internet to hate the main magazine. In fact, most of the people I see talking about the main magazine--on very different message boards--is negative. I don't see the Wizard-bots that every is always talking about. Most people don't need a magazine to learn about their favorite creators--they can just go to their respective message boards.

I could see the magazine having a lot of power over casual fans, but not the hardcore crowd. I certainly don't think it's because of Wizard or its fans that Byrne got fired.

 I know I'm alone in this but I'm sad. To me this was the only decent Superman title. One where Superman wasn't a whining jerk. I think it says more about the readership than Byrne. If you can tell me you honestly prefer Rucka's crap to Action I will give up my faith in the folks here.

Don't look at me.

I buy the mini-series that are lauded as being complete.  That's why I hated Identity Crisis.  It was a lead in to Infinite Crisis.

From what I've read, Adventures of Superman is much better than Action Comics. I like Simone and all (Villains United was great) but I haven't really been interested in her run on Superman. It doesn't help that the artwork looks incredibly dated. Then again, I'm currently not collecting either title. I am enjoying Verheiden's run on Superman, though.

As for Dan Didio, I don't see him as some Big Brother figure trying to ruin comics for older fans by changing the past. Under his watch we had both Hal Jordan and Kara Zor-El return to their proper places in the DCU, and now we have the Earth-2 Superman and Earth-Prime Superboy back. It's not as if there's some sort of "culture war" going on between comics fans and creators. As long as he continues to make DC successful, I have no problems with him.

Who the heck is Rucka?

I will have to state once again, That I do not read the current Superman books, because there aren't any.

Click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Rucka). Wikipedia is your friend--unless you're John Byrne.  :)

Unfortunately John Byrne's star has sunk.  At one time he was gold in the comics industry.  Now quite the contrary.
Personally I think Action has improved a bit of late, but I think it seemed disconnected from the rest of the Superman books.

As far as I know Byrne wasnt fired- both he and Simone had a finite number contracted.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Who said that? Is that the new spin?

To quote Byrne:

Gail and I were hired (tho I was not told this when I agreed to do the book, or I would have declined) to 'fill the gap' between one team and the next."

It's too funny.  I found the quote through the "Quote of the Week" at the Comics Reporter
http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/cr_week_in_review10/

I direct anyone who wants a good laugh to read another of Byrne's quotes as linked to from Fanboy Rampage:

http://fanboyrampage.blogspot.com/2005_10_01_fanboyrampage_archive.html#112932588613226757

this was too funny:

The Comics Journal considers one of fandom's favorite topics:

"Just randomly wondering why people have such strong feelings about John Byrne. I missed where he stole everyone's lunch-money and kicked all those babies, or whatever his crimes against humanity are..."

"Apparently he's outspoken or something."

"I think a lot of fans of a certain generation came to think of him as the greatest superhero cartoonist in the world and then, when they grew up, they looked at his stuff again (which hasn't really changed very much over the last 30-odd years) and realised it was just reasonably facile hackwork and felt somehow personally betrayed. I think maybe that explains the strength of feeling, at least partly."

"I've heard nothing - and I mean NOTHING - but bad things about Byrne's treatment of other human beings, especially fans. Common courtesies such as holding a door open or saying please or thank you or moving out of someone's way are apparently beneath his concern. Also, he's *not* a good artist, nor has he ever been. He epitomizes 'hack.'"

"Does he still sit in that giant chair at conventions that makes him tower over the other artists by 4 or 5 feet?"

John Byrne - who else!  :wink:

HAHAHAHA!!!

Forgive me if someone on this board is very conservative; I mean no harm. But read this forum post on John Byrne's political leanings:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4998&PN=1&totPosts=239

A guy on the forum talks about how he's invested thousands in making a conservative comic book, and then another one talks about his new comic, Super Liberal.

Unless Byrne retroactively edited his post, the only thing he says about his politics is "moderate Republican", literally just those two words.  The cult of Byrne is certainly amusing here, if you're into such antics, but this isn't the post to find amusing banter from Byrne himself AFAICT.

Well, I looked up "Byrne fired" in Google and found this. It's not so much what Byrne says (really, who DIDN'T know that he was fairly conservative?) but that guy proposing the conservative comic. That guy might be the biggest talk radio addict on the Internet. But I digress, before getting too far off-topic.

If we all think John Byrne is a waste of time and effort, then why do we talk about him so much?

I did a forum search on various creators, and here's the hit count (ie, how many times each name has been mentioned in this forum):

Byrne - 206 matches
Swan - 191 matches
Siegel - 156 matches
Maggin - 152 matches
Shuster - 125 matches
Boring - 103 matches
Ross - 103 matches
Weisinger - 98 matches
Moore - 96 matches
Bates - 93 matches
Waid - 88 matches
Schwartz - 85 matches
Kirby - 83 matches
Adams - 81 matches
Morrison - 56 matches
Jurgens - 48 matches
Schaffenberger - 35 matches
Englehart - 30 matches
Millar - 27 matches
Busiek - 26 matches
Carlin - 22 matches
Kesel - 15 matches
Rude- 13 matches
Simone - 13 matches
Rucka - 11 matches
Bogdanove - 10 matches

Kind of interesting that the guy is at the top of the heap.  Personally, I think Bog's and Byrne's places should be swapped.

:s:

LOL, well is not so much that we care, it is that he is just fun to poke fun at.
That list is misleading since many times his name is used an an insult, and isn't really talking about him per-say.

I wouldn't care if no one ever mention him again here, heck the way his career is going, there isn't going to be anything to talk about anymore anyway.

His Krypton was reconned out already and replaced by the Birthright one, and someone told me at another board that the current Superman has started to remember things that only the Earth-1 Superman could have known, so Red Beard will be a non-factor soon if all goes the way it seems to be going.

to quote that post:

He is the uberfeminist  writer that makes Supes into a whiny indescisive cheap imitation of cliche' Hamlet and destroys long established characters at whim.. He also never does research. Along with the guy who did "for Tomorrow" ( the worst Superman story ever!! They are the worst of the Superman offfenders in all the modern age. My hatred for these people could smash suns.

Disconnected in this case was a very good thing.

:

[/quote]



I'm sorry this is NOT the same guy.

Haven't you heard, Rao? The internet was invented as a place to complain about stuff!  :D

Well I'm sure it has some other uses, but that's about 90% of it...

I just don't get this at all.  As a casual "browse through a few comics before I buy my TPB of choice" reader, Action's biggest problem seemed to be that it was caught up in crossover hell and other people's plots (for good or ill).  Are you possibly referring to the "retro" art?

Well, this phenomenon isn't that uncommon. Go to any political blog that is right of center, and you'll find Clinton mentioned more times than the National Review, and any left of center blog you'll find Bush Jr. mentioned more times than Noam Chomsky.

I think I can identify why Byrne is rather disliked.

1) First and foremost, he revised Superman. This one ought to be obvious. Now, it isn't the fact the revision itself happened (because revisions always happen and usually make the character stronger), but how conceptually divorced, emotionally barren and clueless his was, created by a man that was egotistical enough to want to leave his mark on comics history, but lacks the talent to do so. In the words of Nightwing: "they eliminated all that Weisenger stuff...for this?"

2) He's an artist who is a poor writer at best, who is given writing gigs because of his art. This is offensive in and of itself (don't you hate those beautiful guys at bookstores sipping coffee that women assume are intelligent because they're goateed and good looking?) but is doubly offensive because it personifies the style over substance approach that defines not just the modern age of comics, but most entertainment period in the 21st Century.

3) Most of us here are fans of comics history, and Byrne is destructive to comics history with totally off the wall annoying concepts (Scarlet Witch as center of the Marvel Universe? Galactus, instead of being a character with personality, is really "a force of nature?" The Metal Men aren't really made of the metal THEY TAKE THE NAME OF AND HAVE ALL THE PROPERTIES OF? Dr. Octopus and Spider-Man were created in the same accident? Busiek's UNTOLD TALES never happened? An explosion a bajillion years ago is responsible for all human heroism in the DC Universe? Storm and Jean Grey were friends secretly, years before the two characters even met?). For the life of me, I can't think of a single Byrne originated concept that is appropriate to what we know about the character.

4) And, you know what? He ain't that great an artist, either. Ever notice all his women look alike?



:love:

Gee, I wonder who could possibly have brought these three up...  :wink:

While I totally agree with every post given in praise of the wonderful Elliot S! Maggin, I think Cary Bates was just as worthy of the two Schwartz writers. What Bates lacked in humor and punchy sarcasm (specialties of Maggin), he made up for in strong central plotting and concept-themed stories centered around a twist at the last page.

One thing though in all fairness if DC did not TELL him he was doing a "fill in" run then that really is dirty pool wether it's John Byrne or not. I mean that's kinda like being hired on at a company and then being told you're a temp a day before you're fired.

If DC is conducting business in this fashion then they could do that to anybody including creators that we might enjoy or have wanted to see on the book for ages. Provided that enjoyment of something besides death were ever a priority for the company again.

If you're only gonna have creative teams on just long enough for them to fill a couple of trade paperbacks then you might as well go all the way and just stop the monthly never ending serial all together and let each team do their own vison of the character in a complete story.

might be better in the longrun anyhow because that way if someone wants to do a JLA story using the big 7 that creator isn't stuck because they decided to turn Superman into an electrocuted Smurf over in his title.

Final word here, I do feel bad for the writer though, she was the one who created the infamous WIF site, so she gets brownie points for that one from me. She also isn't bitter at all, unlike you know who.

And, you know Cary Bates rules, and let's start a thread about him and his stories, and forget this one.

It's closed :)