Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Superman Through the Ages! => Supermanica => Topic started by: Great Rao on October 19, 2005, 07:29:26 PM



Title: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Great Rao on October 19, 2005, 07:29:26 PM
Over in this thread (http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1861), Beppo raised the posibility of voting on a few additional things.

This poll is to address one of those issues.

When I first set-up Supermanica, I was following the guidelines of Fleisher's Great Superman Book in establishing the canonical sources and limiting it to the Superman-specific titles published by DC prior to the Crisis cut-off point in 1985 or 1986, whenever it was.

As much as I was (and still am) an extreme fan of all things Maggin (as can be seen from this site), I felt that my own preferences and desires shouldn't get in the way of Supermanica's objectivity, so I left out Luthor's Gift and Starwinds Howl since neither of them was published by DC, and they were both written after Crisis.

But I figured we should open it up for discussion and poll-taking to see what happens.  So either vote now, or think about it a bit, or read and/or participate in the discussion for a bit, and then vote when you're ready.

:s:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Gangbuster on October 19, 2005, 10:08:45 PM
Miracle Monday is canonical because Kristin Wells appeared in the comics. Last Son of Krypton is canonical because Miracle Monday refers to it. By the same token, I believe that Luthor's Gift is canonical, because Miracle Monday refers to it. The final dialogue from Miracle Monday:

"Tell me something seriously, Kris."

"Can't promise.  It's against the rules, even for you."

"Just one thing.  Do I ever make friends with Luthor again?"

She thought about how to tell him and how much to tell him.  He was Superman, after all, she had to tell him something.  Finally, she just whispered, "Someday."
-----------------

Since Luthor's Gift seems to be a logical outgrowth of Miracle Monday, It's in. On the other hand, Starwinds Howl isn't as easy. I love the story, BUT...

a) Do we have any other record of the space-pirates mentioned in the story?
b) Does the story change the perception of Krypto that we previously held from reading comics alone?
c) Does the photonucleic effect conflict with any other explanations of (Earth-1) Superman's powers?

In my view, Luthor's Gift is no problem. Even though it details years that aren't covered in canon, we have a canonical source to back it up. Starwinds Howl details years not covered by canon, without such a luxury.


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 19, 2005, 11:21:48 PM
I wonder what will happen in a poll about Elliot S! Maggin of Earth-Prime, since he only appeared in Justice League.

 :wink:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Great Rao on October 19, 2005, 11:31:52 PM
Quote from: "Super Monkey"
I wonder what will happen in a poll about Elliot S! Maggin of Earth-Prime, since he only appeared in Justice League.

If he didn't appear in the canonical sources, then he doesn't exist.  :shock:

Although, if Maggin himself ends up being voted a canonical source, then I suppose we could just ask him whether or not he exists...  Hopfully he would know.

:s:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: TELLE on October 20, 2005, 06:14:56 AM
This poll is getting very metaphysical.   :D

I suppose that some Maggin novel stuff is already canonical, as are some things from the novels that are also in the comics (and short stories?).  Hard to draw the line but I'd be okay with the canon as it now stands for the forseeable future.  All of Maggin as canon is tempting though because of the nature of the project.


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Great Rao on October 21, 2005, 07:34:36 PM
Well, those of you against the short stories being added should probably vote against them.  They way things are looking right now, they'll very likely be added in.

:s:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Klar Ken T5477 on October 21, 2005, 11:31:37 PM
I say no.

Why?

Not in canonical sources.

Written post crisis.

Just because they appear here and Maggin is beloved "it is forbidden to interfere" with the rules of Supermanica.

Rather let his stories stir...............here. :s:

Double EL hath spoken.


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: MatterEaterLad on October 22, 2005, 10:53:29 AM
Ah, the mysteries of "canon"...yikes!

There is no way everyone will agree...if it was me, it would be all comic sources up to the Sandman Saga, and then, end... :lol:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 22, 2005, 12:36:26 PM
There seems to be yet another tie.


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Klar Ken T5477 on October 23, 2005, 12:00:15 AM
Beppo I see conflict of interest here esp with ESM's interest in doing something with you. :shock:

Frankly Im shocked! Shocked! :lol:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 23, 2005, 12:16:53 AM
heh, well I belive that everything related to the Pre-Crisis Superman should be included within reason. The only two exceptions should be if it contradicts mainstream canon: The Master Mesmerizer of Metropolis garbage, Phatom Zone mini ;), The whole Crisis series ;), Supergirl marriage, last issue of DCCP, you know crap like that. Another would be, I guess non-comic stuff, characters from the Serials, TV shows, comic ADs, toys, and Movies.

Though, maybe we can someday make some exceptions ;)


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: TELLE on October 23, 2005, 03:51:03 AM
Master Mesmerizer is unfortunately canon.  Ditto some of the others.  But I agree whole-heartedly.


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Gangbuster on October 24, 2005, 10:52:37 AM
Well, either way...I lose!

I seem to be the only person who agreed with my analysis  :D

So, what now, since we have a tie? Do we follow Robert's Rules of Order, where nothing changes, or do we have tiebreaker, such as the highest score in Pong?

Though technically...a majority want Luthor's Gift in, while a majority do not want Starwinds Howl in... (*hint, hint)


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 24, 2005, 11:52:42 AM
Quote from: "TELLE"
Master Mesmerizer is unfortunately canon.  Ditto some of the others.  But I agree whole-heartedly.


How can it be cannon if it was rconned the very next issue and never refered to again in the comics?


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: TELLE on October 24, 2005, 05:40:48 PM
Canon simply by virtue of being a story in one of the canonical sources.

Any reference in the Supermanica should favour the retcon.


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Great Rao on October 24, 2005, 06:16:42 PM
You mean they actually bothered to ret-con Master Mesmerizer?  How did they explain it away?

:s:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 24, 2005, 07:40:26 PM
Quote from: "Great Rao"
You mean they actually bothered to ret-con Master Mesmerizer?  How did they explain it away?

:s:


They didn't they just never referenced it again, as if it never happen.

Maybe it really happen on Earth-STSHNBP


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: MatterEaterLad on October 24, 2005, 09:11:50 PM
Well, old Supes survived an exploding supernova (thrown back in time to an alien world) in the issue right after the Sand Saga diminished his power...this was the last comic I ever purchased... 25 cents!!!!!!

(http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/116/400/116_4_243.jpg)


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 24, 2005, 09:58:50 PM
Sand who? ;)


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: MatterEaterLad on October 24, 2005, 10:04:13 PM
LOL, that's MY kind of canon...I like what I like...

Canon is too, well, "religious"... 8)


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 24, 2005, 10:09:20 PM
Maybe those Hostess cake only villians might make it in someday ;)

Though, I don't know if I would live long enough to see a Hostess cake  Category ;)

edit:

for those who want to read them on-line:

http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Klar Ken T5477 on October 24, 2005, 10:14:49 PM
My fave non-event was Jor-el and Lara floating in suspended animation surviving the explosion of Krypton and THEN NEVER EVER MENTIONED AGAIN (except here)

Kinda like Superman living an entire life in an alien dimension and then retrurning to babyhood and beginning life anew on Earth. (100 Years Lost Stolen or Missing)

Come to think of it - why no Untold Stories of Super Menace (looks just like Superboy/Man except he wears a mask and IS EVIL) :roll:

Frankly if Super-Turtle is canon if the Hostess villians appeared pre-crisis in any of the mags deemed as AOK, theyre Canon - Frank Cannon, Wally Wood's Cannon, Cannonball Adderly, Grand Canon ................ :twisted:


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Super Monkey on October 24, 2005, 10:22:30 PM
Another pre-crisis thing you may never see added...but we can always vote on it later, I suppose, Rao is a Kirby Fan ;)

http://www.comics.org/covers.lasso?SeriesID=2996


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: TELLE on October 25, 2005, 06:31:00 AM
True, Supes was a major SuperPowers character but I would lump this in with JLA.


Title: Re: Should the on-line Maggin prose stories be canonical?
Post by: Great Rao on October 25, 2005, 12:08:29 PM
So as far as the poll results are concerned:  I think that in the case of a tie, we should opt for not bending the rules and keeping things as they are.   This might even be a good general policy, as most votes seem to be about exceptions.  If a tie - no exception.

:s: