Superman Through the Ages! Forum

The Superman Family! => The Legion of Super-Heroes => Topic started by: Captain Kal on October 26, 2005, 10:08:04 AM

Title: How powerful was Timber Wolf in the SA/BA?
Post by: Captain Kal on October 26, 2005, 10:08:04 AM
His powers and power-levels seemed inconsistent even for such a relatively minor, rarely used character.

He originally had only limited super-strength and super-agility (according to his first stories and a lettercol response that his other power was super-agility).  While he was shown running superfast, that was arguably not true super-speed esp. considering he couldn't outrace Khundian craft in the air nor compete with starships in space.  He seemed to be limited to somewhere under Mach 1.  His faster running and reflexes may be attributed to the greater energy resources of his great strength not an actual super-speed power.

He was later credited as his strength as speed being nearly comparable to Ultra Boy's.  Ultra Boy was still firmly considered the 3rd most powerful Legionnaire.  If Brin truly was nearly as strong and fast as Jo, then being able to use both speed and strength at the same time augmented with agility would make him both more powerful than Jo and a better fighter.  Clearly, this was not the case esp. when Ultra Boy easily restrained Timber Wolf in their first encounter.

So, what is it?

Title: Re: How powerful was Timber Wolf in the SA/BA?
Post by: Uncle Mxy on October 27, 2005, 08:53:36 AM
FWIW, in the pre-Crisis Mayfair Games supplement, Timber Wolf had a STR of 34 and Ultra Boy had 44.

Title: Re: How powerful was Timber Wolf in the SA/BA?
Post by: Captain Kal on October 27, 2005, 11:30:29 AM
I'm aware of those stats from DCH RPG.  Aside from them not being truly canon (note the bogusly low STR 25 value for Ferro Lad), that would suggest either UB is 1,000 x as strong as TW, or if we go by column shifts that he's relatively 16 x as strong.

I was hoping for a more canon based approach.

Title: Re: How powerful was Timber Wolf in the SA/BA?
Post by: DoctorZero on October 28, 2005, 09:50:58 PM
The character has gone through so many changes and revisions over the years it's nearly impossible to determine how strong he is or was supposed to be.
Originally he wasn't as strong as the big three, Superboy, Mon-El and Ultra Boy.  He was super strong, but more in the class probably of Ferro Lad and a few others.
Later on they suddenly gave him a wolf like face under Dave Cockrum.  This was never totally explained, other than a comment later on about him "hiding behind" that face by Light Lass.  Then he was transformed once again and sent back to the 20th century.  
Currently he appears to be pretty strong and has yet another origin.  But I would say that originally he wasn't nearly as super strong as the big three were.

Title: Re: How powerful was Timber Wolf in the SA/BA?
Post by: Captain Kal on November 01, 2005, 12:26:36 PM
Thanks, DoctorZero.  That pretty much sums the situation up.

I think the real problem began in that Adult Legion tale where Douglas Nolan beats up Timber Wolf.  Brainiac 5 then observes that TW has super-strength so anyone who could do that to him must be as strong as Superman or Mon-El.  The implication here is TW is at one level, Ferro Lad is a notch higher, and Superman/Mon-El are the top notch (it's very clear in other stories that Ferro Lad is not quite as powerful as Superboy esp. since Ferro Man feared facing Superman in the Adult LSH story).

The first Bronze Age story with TW -- the first with his blank eyeballs and animal face -- has Superboy noting when Brin ripped a building spire off like a dry twig that Timber Wolf is nearly as strong as Superboy or Mon-El.  This is evidently building on the previous Adult Legion reference.

The problem is most stories outside of that give TW a much more limited super-strength.  He can't break through steel except with effort.  He's been stopped by a mere stone wall against Tseln of Thaun.  But on other occasions he's 'nearly as strong as Ultra Boy' and hefting boulders and near-mountains around.

He's been more powerful and effective on a battlefield than Colossal Boy.  But Colossal Boy is part of the 'fighting cream of the Legion, capable of destroying a starship single-handed', and Timber Wolf was amongst the second-stringers incapable of standing up to that same starship fleet.

Yeah, Timber Wolf has been very inconsistently portrayed.  Given his standing next to Ferro Lad and my own extrapolation that the Boy of Iron has the same relationship of iron to steel when it comes to Superboy/Mon-El (about 1 to 5.625 for the best iron vs the best steel), I'd peg TW at best around 1/6th or so of Mon's strength.  That would seem consistent with those occasions when it's hinted Mon is stronger than Jo and Brin combined.