Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Just read Super Monkey's Von Kamp entry at Supermanica:
http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Von_Kamp

Doesn't that sound like Adrian Veidt and his secret plan in Watchmen?

The secret island, yes. The rest, no. Veidt wasn't anything close to a Nazi nor a mobster.

Actually, "Sending a criminal eye in the sky" sounds more like what's being done in DC Comics these days, via OMAC...

Just a capitalist and mass-murderer.

Yes, but a person who murders because because of hatred or for personal gain is vastly different than one who murders because he thinks the ends justify the means. Neither is a good thing, but they are different varieties of bad.

Veidt seems more like a socialist than a capitalist.  Plus most nazis believed they were helping "create a better world".  Communist/socialist dictators (like; Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, etc.) murdered millions of people.  They to believed they were creating a better world.   The nazis, communists, & the fictional Veidt all believed that "the ends justifys the means".

Fascism is a disease --or more accurately a symptom-- of capitalism (as are, arguably, some of the extreme horrors perpetrated in the name of socialism --Stalinism, etc).

Veidt, the multi-millionaire investor and manufacturer, who marketed his image to the consumers of the world and functioned as an arms dealer/manufacturer (Daddy Warbucks), was most definitely not a socialist in Watchmen.  Capitalist, investor, businessman, corporate raider, whatever.  But not a socialist.

Given Moore's politics (or what I understand of them: "crypto-anarchist hippie magician" is how I would describe them), the character of Veidt reads as an implied critique of capitalism and and its exemplars (Warner/DC, etc).  Just as the Comedian can be read as a critique of US foreign policy from Korea on.  Or maybe he's just a fun homage to Charlton Comics.

I don't think Veidt was a capitalist, communist, or a socialist. I feel that he would view money merely as a means to create his own vision of a perfect world--basically, he'd use it like he used other people. He seems like an extremist utilitarian to me.

Given Veidt's fondness for the past, I'd say his vision of the perfect world would be something similar to the one found in The Republic by Plato. He'll just do anything to achieve his goals.

Sure, I'm willing to grant that he did not self-identify solely as a capitalist.  Just as Bruce Wayne thinks of himself more as Batman than as the President and CEO of Wayne Industries, et al.  But he is still a capitalist.  The Republic is a great call, given not only the title of the comic ("Who Shall Watch the Watchmen?" os from Plato's Republic) but also Veidt's obsession with Alexander, who was tutored by Plato's student Aristotle.  Of course, Plato and Aristotle hold differing views, with Aristotle being the more "scientific" and Plato being more idealistic.  Aristotle was the advisor to a dictator, after all.  Whereas Plato had more leanings towards Socrates' version of dying for his principles (Rorscach?).

In another sense Veidt can be viewed (as I'm sure he viewed himself) as a heroic figure, if only because he was opposed to Dr. Manhattan.  He is like the "Homo Sapiens defense League" or whatever it was called in that Alex Ross comic --a combination of Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor.

I agree that he is TECHNICALLY a capitalist, but I don't think he likes the idea of consumerism. Basically, the only reason he makes money is to advance his goals. I believe that in his perfect world there would be no money, though. So, he'd be a capitalist in the technical sense but would not see himself as such. A capitalist that eventually would want to do away with capitalism. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, one of the reasons I enjoy Watchmen so much is because of all the philosophical stuff Moore put in there. It's interesting to try to find out why the characters do what they do. BTW, good call on the "Aristotle advising dictators" thing.


I view Veidt as the Overman (from Nietzsche's writings) and the Doc as God. It's about Man vs. God, in a sense. Back in ancient times, you didn't really have to be good to be a hero, you just had to do great things--like opposing a god, for example.

Veidt being seen as a combination of Wayne and Luthor is spot on, in my view.