Superman Through the Ages! Forum

There was an episode of STAR TREK where a transporter accident splits Captain Kirk into two people: a "good" Kirk, and an "evil" Kirk. But it is the "evil" Kirk that has Captain Kirk's command abilities, his certainty, ability to solve problems, and to lead. The "good" Kirk is wishy-washy and unable to act as a starship captain.

What does this have to do with A.S.S. and INFINITE CRISIS? Keep your shirt on and let me get to it.

It's interesting that my old buddy Granty's A.S.S. and INFINITE CRISIS would tie together so well. Both are out of continuity, but they share an insight on the secret identity that is very revealing.

In A.S.S., we have Lois downright terrified when Superman reveals his secret identity to her. But the thing that bugs her the most is, not that Superman might be lying...but that he might be telling the truth. That a part of who Superman is, is the cowardly, dorky, and utterly unimpressive Clark Kent.

Come INFINITE CRISIS, we have superheroes that are behaving rather naughtily, that have in many ways, failed (and they know it, too). Diana, who has transformed from a Snow White-esque sweet princess, to a results-oriented pragmatist, insists on being called "Wonder Woman" only.

The reason may be because the three big heroes have divorced themselves from their secret identities, and instead of being in equilibrium with their two halves, have swung far to the side of the superheroic, problem solving side without anything to temper it.

Think about it: what do all the superhero secret identities have in common?
 
They're all wusses.

They're all put upon.

Superman as Clark Kent is dismissable and ignored, mildmannered, a nice guy, but a pussycat. When a giant robot shows up and he says "Oh, I feel faint," there's no reason to think it isn't true, because a guy like Clark Kent WOULD feel faint at the sight of trouble. Ditto for Wonder Woman; a thick glasses wearing secretary, the universal symbol of mousiness and spinsterhood. Ditto for Bruce Wayne, too: he plays the part of a polo-playing rich dummy.
 
What I suspect INFINITE CRISIS may be trying to show us, is that you have to have a little lamb in you, as well as the wolf.

Is THIS the lesson that Earth-2 Superman is trying to show our heroes, perhaps?

Could be.  But then, isn't it pretty strongly implied that Kal-L has been in costume for the last 20 years with no Clark Kent time at all?

D'oh!  One thing we don't see a lot of here at STTA is spoiler warnings --most of the time I could care less about the plot of some new comic or tv show I'm not going to read.  It must be a sign that I'm actually looking forward to reading the collected A.S.S. that I don't want to read or hear even one plot point, let alone details of characterisation or even themes.

As for the "put-upon secret id" thesis, they might be the exceptions that prove the rule, but I can thing of many secret ids outside of the big 3 who are, if not exactly alpha-male types, at least categorizable in the "no slouch" column:

Jimmy Olsen, Ted Grant/Wildcat, Green Hornet, Green Arrow, Atom, Green Lantern, various X-Men, versions of Golden Age charcters, especially when written by Roy Thomas, heroes without secret ids, etc.

One of the problems with waiting for the collected version of All Star Superman is that then you miss all the really cool covers - like this one (http://superman.nu/a/History/allstar/2/).

:s:

When did you add that?

I must have missed that update  :?

I hope that they include all of the covers, becaus ethey have been great, and I can now say that I am a fan of the artist, he has blown me away with this series, I wasn't a fan before, but I am now :)

Nope, you didn't miss it.  I initially intended to just scan the cover, but then decided to add a few more pages.  The whole thing went online a few minutes before I posted about it.

:s:

Good point, Julian.  A lot of Super Heroes have secret ID's which are actually wusses.  Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, Don Blake, Peter Parker, even Barry Allen (always late) were less than perfect role models.  

I don't know what the message ultimately is going to be with Infinite Crisis.  Maybe you're right, maybe it will just be that every superhero will remember the parallel worlds before.  

As for Kal-L, maybe I'm wrong but I never thought they said he gave up his secret ID.  I could have sworn I saw some 70's All Star comics JSA stories which had Clark changing into Superman.

He never did reveal his i.d. --right through the Superman Family stories starring Mr and Mrs Superman (one of which was set in the far future when their teenage daughter discovers her superpowers --maybe an imaginary story?) and on into Crisis, he was always Clark Kent, editor of the Daily Star.

does lois lane kent love superman or clark kent in the paradise demision?

Telle, the issue featuring Super-Daughter Laura Kent was Superman Family #200, a 1980 "Imaginary Story" proposing what the EARTH-1 Super Family would look like twenty years in the future -- way off in 2000 AD.  This was not related to the Earth-2 "Mr. and Mrs. Superman" tales.

oops.  And I just read that 6 months ago! :oops:

Kal kept up the Clark Kent disguise right up until his final appearance in Crisis #12.

What I was referring to is the period AFTER that.  I gather from what I've seen of IC that Kal-L has been in his Super-suit since his "goodbye" in 1986.  Everything I've seen suggests he wore the cape and tights full-time in that "paradise" dimension, watching events unfold on Earth-Dreck.

Personally, I would've thought that in "paradise," Kal would hang out in flannels and jeans.  Or maybe a Kryptonian tunic or something.  Anyway it seems odd to just lounge around in paradise for two decades wearing your battle gear.  If everything's so perfect, why do you need super-heroes at all?

I think you could make an argument either way.

According to the Kingdom series, Kal-L had Lois Lane, the Daily Star building, and most of the rest Metropolis in that "Paradise Dimension" with him.  So presumably being Clark and showing up for work every day was part of his daily routine.

:s:

Has it been stated anywhere exactly how much time they spent in "Paradise"?  I've been following the series faithfully (including all the "Countdown to Crisis" series) and don't recall if the time they spent there is specified (then again I have a hard time finding my keys in the morning...) :D


I read on another board that Dan Didio has stated that the Kingdom Series is "out of continutity".  Which brings up another question - exactly what was it like in "Paradise"?

Now that you've pointed this out, things make much more sense.  Thanks.

:s:

In, out.  Good, bad. In costume, out of costume, good art, bad art  --I'm having trouble keeping up! :D

This is an interesting notion (though for once I agree with Didio...Kingdom should not count!).

The notion being, can a place need Superman and still be considered paradise?  Would a "paradise" still suffer from natural disasters, fatal accidents, and...most importantly...crime?  On the other hand, could a superhero consider a place paradise if he wasn't needed?  Would Superman be happy in a world that didn't need him?  Would any hero feel fulfilled and satisfied if he never had to pull on his tights and perform some feat or other?

I think the way it's shaping up...in Kingdom and Crisis alike...is that Kal considers Earth-2 paradise, even with its problems.  While some of us might agree, it doesn't paint him as a very heroic character, IMHO, to want the restoration of E-2 above all else.  In a way, he's a stand-in for all the readers who say "Change is bad, period."  I can't see this series ending with an affirmation of that world view (even if being 40 makes me sympathetic to it, personally!).

Superman's Pal wrote:



No, "20 years" is our time (real-world time).  It's unclear to me how much time has passed on Earth-Dreck since COIE.  But considering one of the first things the morons in DC editorial did after their vaunted "this will solve everything" reboot was to have Superman meet President Ronald Reagan, something very much like 20 years must have passed for our heroes, as well.

as soon as they went to lex as president the idea that they had presidents in real time like we did went out the window...
and don't get me started on the dates in birthright...

That's true but....

There's a spoiler here so don't read if you don't want to know...










In the most recent issue of JSA, we find out that Superman told the House Committee that he was really Clark Kent back when the JSA refused to reveal their ID's.  This is another major continuity change for DC, but then again, that's to be expected by DC, isn't it?

SPOILERS!


Actually, this happened in Superman 226, not JSA 82.  A pretty easy mistake to make, given that both titles dealt with the Earth-2 Superman's involvement with the "McCarthy"-like congressional hearings in the 1950s.

And given that the rest of that issue of Superman was mostly crisis-induced continuity-hopping and continuity-rattling, I don't think we know yet how "real" any of those events were.  JSA, on the other hand, is one big flash-back to a series of events that definitely occured.  And the events in that title seem to be playing out a little bit differently.

:s: