Superman Through the Ages! Forum

I've been thinking of this and it strikes me that this is just an attempt to try to (a) boost Legion's sales and (b) incorporate the Legion into the mainstream DC Universe.

Apparently Supergirl's book is hot now so they think it will provide some sales to the Legion's book.  I wonder how long this is going to last and, if it's not done to pick up new readers, who Supergirl's name has to be on the book in the first place.

After finally taking a look at this legion (went out and got #15) I have to say it will not be enough for me.

I will continue to read Supergirl...but I have nothing but contempt for the legion I saw in #15 and not even the addition of Supergirl will cause me to waste my money on it.

Dylan

Don't mince words, Dylan - tell us what you really think.  :wink:

Seriously, I was interested in investigating Supergirl and the Legion but now I may not.  Can you explain more about what the problem was?

:s:

 :oops:

Well, I have to say I was more ticked off at wasting my money.  I had been told by many that knew my tastes that I would like this new reboot...that it was closer to the original than before.

I hesitated...and finally decided to pick up a copy....because of Supergirl...and the inclusion of Dawnstar etc on the cover.

But this legion is not what I like.  A guy on the DC boards gave it the right name....The Logan's Run Legion.....with the only thing missing being the crystals in the palms and the crowds yelling "renew renew renew"!

They showed a few scenes of the old characters....scenes that never happened...showing the old characters having the same sickening anti elder attitudes.

As I stated on the board.  I felt this legion was a slap in the face of us older fans (and in my case, any thing after and including the 5 year gap was trash) and an insult to serious science fiction fans with more than three brain cells to rub together.

(I mean sheeesh....they are claiming that the vocal cords of a race of people atrophy in less than a thousand years.....not possible.)

The new motto of the legion, as far as I can tell, is no longer "Long Live the Legion!"  it is now "Eat it, Grandpa!"

:)  And of course I spewed this forth on the board...not realizing that Stewart Moore posts there as well...not that it would have changed my words.....

well, maybe I wouldn't have asked what drugs the writers were on and wondered if they had gotten hold of a bad batch :)

Over all....the this legion does not strike me as super-heroes.  They strike me as spoiled brats in a society of spoiled brats where the enemy is not the fatal five, etc....but rather mom and dad.

Dylan

Or a guy with a spit curl named Klar. :cry:

Personally, I like the new Legion. Their rebellious attitude allows them to walk a line their earlier incarnations tended to either lack entirely or go way overboard on--a sense of conflict. The conceit of the current Legion series is that the galaxy has become stagnant. People are more content to live in their homes 24/7 and live a good life in a good world where decisions are made for you and everything has a place and should be in that place to maintain an orderly, stable society. The Legion utilizes the conceit of the superhero myths of the twentieth century to strike back, to try to enact positive change and shake up the status quo for the youth of the galaxy. That does tend to make them a bit of a threat to the status quo, who prefer that children be not seen and not heard in the least. Hence their antagonistic relationship with the Science Police.

 If the Legion has a flaw, its that in their efforts to enact change some members have allowed their power to go to their heads, allowing for the bullying of Klar seen in issue #16. But with the arrival of Kara, I think you'll see that start to change. The Supergirl of this series--in the hands of Mark Waid--is not the sullen Michael Turner Christina Aguilera Angstmaiden of Superman/Batman. She's. . .well, she's Kara Zor-El. And that's what I think the Legion needs right now; a moral compass who can take them by the hand and show them how it was done back in the twenty-first century.

 I'm sorry it wasn't your cup of tea Dylan, but I'm staying the course. I like this portrayal of Kara and I want to see more, especially in contrast to the Legion, which I also enjoy. Like Battlestar Galactica, it's a reboot that takes getting used to, but I feel it's ultimately worthwhile.

 -Def.

I have a few objections to the Mark Waid Legion, however, this is not among them - in fact, I think it's an interesting theme present in Legion of Super-Heroes history since the sixties, and is a compliment to Mark Waid's familiarity with DC history that he is able to pick up on it.

The whole "never trust anybody over 30" deal with the Legion of Super-Heroes is not some bizarre new interpretation that Mark Waid pulled out of nowhere, but is in fact entirely consistent with how the Legion was characterized back in the hip, counterculture sixties. Under Jim Shooter and Curt Swan, the Legion battled a nearly endless series of mind-controlled grownups, like in "The Legion Outlaws" where they were hip rebels against the system, whose PARENTS spied on them in their rooms when the square President of the UP, Kandro Boltax (Universo) declared them illegal. There was also their many battles with Mantis Morlo, the Chemical Conqueror, a grownup that "doesn't get it" who pollutes alien planets with chemicals from his factories, and at one point exposes the Legion to a "hallucination-creating gas."

Militarism and military societies, like the Dark Circle, Khunds and Dominators, were always unsympathetic, scheming and villainous, whereas non-technological and nature loving cultures like Orando's were always depicted sympathetically. Given a choice, I'd rather live on Jim Shooter's Orando than here: they had to settle for "supreme mastery of the arts" with "not a single building decorated with a work equal to that of Michaelangelo or Da Vinci." To show that Talok VII had come under the dominion of the Fatal Five, the planet was noticeably militarized.

It should be noted that with the exception of a few "traitors" like Nemesis Kid, no Jim Shooter and Curt Swan villain was a teenager; all their bad guys, from the Emerald Empress to Evilo were all adults. Universo was a Legion enemy, but his teenage son Rond Vidar was a Legion ally.

The Legion under Shooter was filled with the following themes:

1) Youth and new ideas = good, Age and tradition = not as good. The ultraconservative Elders that refuse to allow the bombed out planet of Durla to be terraformed, for instance, are depicted as backward and Chameleon Boy, the least typical "Durlan," as a rebel.

2) People that shout loudly about their own morality tend to be the evilest people of all. Given this theme, was it really a surprise that UP president Kandro Boltax turned out to be evil?

My problem with the Waid reboot is principally:

1) It's a Legion reboot. Did they REALLY do it so very wrong the first time? But I suppose this isn't Waid's fault, so this is the least of my objections.

2) This is my major objection: the characters are utterly unlikeable. Brainiac is an irritating know-it-all I want to slap. Previously, the Legion were the Mickey Mouse Club, the nicest and coolest bunch of kids you'd want to hang out with. Now they feel like the Nineties Mickey Mouse Club, where they're all kind of unfunny and irritating.

3) Mark Waid only focuses on the characters that he personally likes. Wow, Mark Waid enforcing his personal likes, dislikes and views onto characters? Shock of the century. But seriously, there ARE other Legionnaires other than Brainiac 5 and Cosmic Boy.

All you guys that love the Mark Waid FLASH to death will probably love this thing, so don't listen to what I say.  :D

It's true that the theme of young vs. old was used a lot in the original Legion series as well.  After all, they were appealing to a young audience.  I agree with Julian in that too many of the Legion characters in this current reboot are totally unlikable.  It's the Battlestar Galactica (new version) retake on the Legion.

Well I'm digging it anyway. :)

 -Def.

In Legion, 30 has become the new 90.

The whole probelm with doing the young vs. old thing and stuff like "don't trust anyone over 30" though is it basically presupposes that anybody who's older just plain stinks. I think it's an extremely negative thing to portray and serves only to feed alot of the bad youth-is-king ideas that have caused our culture to basically fear and despise the idea of ageing.

I have never been a Legion fan, but I bought issue #1 of this new series when it was released. Not bad.
Then, the tragedy: I bought issue #16 because I wanted to see Supergirl's appearance, and I'm very disappointed. This isn't the Legion. Arrogant, stupid boys: I call them Legion of Superb-heroes.
I don't care if Kara appears in the book, I'll not buy it anymore.

I preferred spend better my money... So, last month I bought the great darkness saga!

It's a rather interesting development to me.

On the surface, the adults in this future seem to have a lot in common with Byrne's Kryptonians.