Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Krypton was described by some writers as being equal to jupiter in size.  In Action Comics #500 in a comparison picture (krypton next to earth) krypton looked to be about 5xearth in size.  or something in that area.  In any case there are implications that were missed by most if not all of the writers in the bronze age stories.  Whenever a "globe" of krypton was shown its continents were very prominent.  Yet in the stories the writers make it sound like the continents on krypton were no bigger than the continents on earth.  If that were really the case then krypton's continents would look more like islands on a planet that was almost completely covered by water.  Another thing is krypton population.  In some bronze age stories it was claimed that krypton had a smaller population that earth.  A society that is several millenia ahead of earth (in science & technology) inhabitting a planet like krypton should number in the tens (if not hundreds) of billions.

Not sure I agree with you on the population front. Don't forget that most industrialised nations have very restricted birthrates. It's a fair bet that Kryptonians had birth control, and may even actively have sought to restrict the growth of their population (I'm not saying that they practised eugenics or anything).

In Last Son of Krypton, Maggin mentions that Krypton was a rather inhospitable planet, so it might not have offered much in the way of food and materials; in those circumstances, it would make sense to restrict your population so as not to overtax your resources. Not that we earthlings do, of course.

This seems like a very civilized idea, something the Kryptonians would actively pursue and which might explain the tiny size of a "major" city like Argo City.  A population in the 10s or hundreds of billions, despite a highly advanced technology, would have a considerable impact on the ecology of a planet, endangering not just fauna like the thoughbeasts but also the rare flora of the Scarlet Jungle.

That being said, I wonder what the population of Krypton was --certainly millions.  Any references from the comics?

My Google search for "population of Krypton" yielded a rather unexpected result (http://realestate.yahoo.com/re/neighborhood/search.html?csz=Krypton%2CKY).

317? 317?!?!? They could have evacuated the planet in no time. It's not like it would have been a big hassle. And seeing as they all lived in Kentucky, they wouldn't even have needed spaceships to get to Kansas; they could all have fitted on a plane. What a tragic waste.

The population of Krypton at the time of its destruction has varied.  In Action Comics #338 (June 1966), it was "over one billion", though I recall somewhere reading 9 billion.  Still, with all that surface area population density outside the major cities would be pretty spread out.

In Superman #307 (January 1977) it's claimed that the Bottled City of Kandor contained 7 million inhabitants.

Hmmm. In a Denny O'Neil "Fabulous World of Krypton" featurette, Superman told a story to Green Arrow and Balck Canary about the singing flowers of Krypton and the scientist who tried to awake people from their music-invoked stupor. At the end, he said either nine billion or twelve billion died in the explosion of Krypton....I THINK nine billion.

Pouil Anderson said that, due to the greater mass causing more compacting, he really doubted if any world could get physically BIGGER than Jupiter, although it might easily be more massive.  Certainly a world as large as Jupiter but with solid continents and oceans woudl have room for even nine billion and the jungles and forests we saw, considering how much more square acreage that would give it.

Despite Larry Niven's speculation that the "planet" Krypton was really a black or brown dwarf star circling its red "brother", I don't really think Krypton's gravity was that terribly massive---certainly not enough to account for Superman's strength, as was the original explanation. Otherwise, when Jimmy went to Krypton in that early story reprinted here on the site, as soon as he stepped onto Krypton he would have been reduced to a sticky paste an inch high.  Gravity high enough to account for Superman's strength would be millions of g, in which case no oxygen would have gotten more than an inch off the surface of Krypton.

Jimmy DID need anti-gravity shoes or belt  to manaeuver well after a few minutes, and certainly I think Krypton's gravity might easily be ten times that of Earth's. Possibly the air of Krypton was made with concentrated oxygen plus large amounts of some harmless, inert gas.

I think the chemical and organic structures that give Kryptonians enough strength to stand up and perform in Krypton's greater gravity were freed under Earth's lesser gravity and stimulated, chemically resulting in new processes---and those new processes were in turn amplified under the yellow solar radiation. Thus, when Superman is placed in a gravity field that simulates that of Krypton, the organic strucutres revert to Krypton-normal mode, and then there's nothing for the yellow sun to amplify.  Thus, even an artificial gravity field that only might be ten to twenty times earth-normal, that Superman SHOULD barely feel, he reverts back to normal strength.

My theory only. ---Al

In some bronze age stories it was implied that krypton's level of technology was barely if at all more advanced than earth's. :roll:  Too often the writers seemed to forget that krypton was not another earth.  Some stories depicted kryptonian civilization as being 10,000 years old.  Kryptonian years, that is.  Others stated or implied that it was far older.  The story or Erok-El shows that krypton already had civilizations, kingdoms, & empires before the founding of the house of El.  Elliot Maggin (among others) had Krypton being about the size of jupiter.  Think of the obvious suface area of such a planet.  The kryptonians could have numbered in the hudreds of billions without completely covering the planet.  Look at any silver/bronze age drawing of a globe of krypton.  Krypton's continents are prominent features of the planet.  If krypton was anywhere near jupiter in size, then vathlo island should have had more land mass than all of earth's continent's & islands combined.

Awesome.

The Floating city had over 1 million people.

Other 70s inventions, as well as many of the items form the Adams 2-page globe, are not in Supermanica.  Like "Valthor" (sp?) --the city of a "highly developed black race" (????).

Awesome.

The Floating city had over 1 million people.

Other 70s inventions, as well as many of the items form the Adams 2-page globe, are not in Supermanica.  Like "Valthor" (sp?) --the city of a "highly developed black race" (????).

"Vathlo Island" - see http://superman.nu/a/Krypton/map/9-vathlo.php

It looks like you had to have an afro and wear a big gold medallion in order to live there.  Just imagine if Brainiac had stolen Vathlo instead of Kandor - it'd make for some great stories!

:s:

and http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Vathlo_Island

which has some added info

That would have been far-out!

Have there been any other non-white Kryptonians, I wonder?

If krypton were anywhere near as large as jupiter there would be room for 900 billion or more people. :twisted:   Of course the super-matter that krypton was made up of was super-dense.  Super-matter probably has anti-gravity properties.  Maggin describes kal's body being as dense as dwarf-star material.  Kryptonite & other things from krypton should be super-heavy on earth.  No human should be able to lift a kryptonian object.  Also a planet larger than earth composed of super-matter should collapse into a black hole.  Unless super-matter has anti-gravity properties.  Of some kind.  That might also explain how krypton could have an atmosphere that earth humans could breathe.

Now we're getting somewhere.  I always wonder about this: it seems that Superman's weight is treated inconsistently.  Bullies can push Clark over, Lois can lift his hair but not cut it.  On other occasions, as Superman, he is immovable, whether floating in mid-air or standing in the path of a nuclear bomb, battleship or freight train.  

I can understand Kryptonian technology having built-in, gravity compensating or defying features that allow Earth humans to use it but the same shouldn't be the case for kryptonite, Kryptonian monkeys, etc.


As well, his cape flaps in the wind.

And do the Atom and Superman have similar qualities (besides strong moral character)?

I actually consider the Kryptonian's internuclear bonds to be strengthened under a yellow sun, and no reall increase in MASS at all. (I know that's contradicting Maggin, but it doesn't fit all those times Superman lost his memory, etc. and didn't sink through the Earth.  Or Beppo. Or any Kryptonian object.) However, it may be the same abilities that allow him to fly allows him to control INERTIA---i.e., when something slams into him he can "turn up" the intertia so it's LIKE he weighed ten tons.

Again, my theory only. BTW, the internuclear bonds being strengthened is stolen from Larry Niven's idea about the Puppeteer's impenetrable hulls.

---Al

That's a great idea, Rao. It certainly would've made a great "Imaginary Story" in the Silver/Bronze Age.

Incidentally, did any Vathloan Kryptonians survive the planet's destruction?

Perhaps the Superman and Supergirl of Earth-D (seen in "Legends of the DC Universe #1: Crisis on Infinite Earths, The Untold Story") came from their Krypton's Vathlo Island?

or their Krypton's Vathlo Island had white people ;)


I wished they would had done more with Vathlo Island.

Grant Morrison did however introduced his own black Superman called Sunshine Superman from a lost pre-crisis Earth which had hippy versions of heroes. This happen in Animal Man.

Sunshine Superman made a cameo in IC.

This is also like the photonucleic effect (http://superman.nu/a/Encyclopaedia/photonucleic.php), which was written by Maggin.