Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Has anyone given thought that this SBP might not be a true Kal-El? in his orgin story (Year of the Comet) he was un affected by the red sun field, Didn't come into his powers until his teen years, not even a slow build up like the post crisis Superman, Just one second he doesn't have them and the next he does. His punches agianst the wall seemed to spawn new time lines, Kal_l's didn't. He was intend on destrying OA and din't seem to care about throwing planets out of orbit (the Rann/Thangar war) I propose the from the start SBP was actually the enity that took over Hal Jorden (notice in the year of the comet he even mentions wanting to be like him.) Or even a part of the Anti-Monitor hence his comment hat he had been in tougher spots then this and gotten out.  Just a point to ponder, doubtful that DC had all this planned out 20 years ago but at least it would let us believe that the goodnes of the EL family stays intact.

The goodness of the El family IS still intact...

all you have to do is simply ignore Infinite Crisis  :)

That's what I intend to do. Welcome to the forum.

Right now, I'm deperately clinging to the belief that the Superboy-Prime we saw in "DC Comics Presents #87" is still "somewhere" in a cosmic vortex, and the one who appeared in "Crisis on Infinite Earths #10" and "Infinite Crisis" was a temporal clone (like the Batch SW6 Legionnaires) inserted as a "mole" by the Time Trapper.  At least, that's how I'm dealing with "Infinite Crisis Denial"...   :(

In his "DC Comics Presents" debut, Superboy-Prime was definitely a Kal-El, but his Krypton-Prime was slightly different, more modeled after the movie version than the Earth-1 and Earth-2 versions.  Also, he was sent to Earth-Prime via transportation beam in the middle of intense red solar flare activity right before the sun went supernova and engulfed Krypton-Prime.  So some of Superboy-Prime's "quirks" might be explained to minute genetic variations in Earth-Prime Kryptonians, a slight "scrambling" of genes in that transporter beam, or the cosmic side-effects of the Crisis.  Personally, I considered Superboy-Prime "in-between" the Pre-Crisis Earth-1 and Post-Crisis Byrne Supermen -- having power levels closer to the earlier version, but with the Man of Steel's "storage battery" that could keep Superboy-Prime going under red sun conditions.

There's also another overlooked ability apparently possessed by inhabitants of Earth-Prime.  Recall that in an earlier Crisis involving Earth-Prime's DC Comics staffers Cary Bates and Elliot S! Maggin, it was discovered that these writers could actually manipulate Reality on Earth-1 and Earth-2!  Perhaps sufficient Imagination (or awareness of "The Fourth Wall") was necessary to accomplish this feat -- Ultraa never did anything like this after moving to Earth-1 -- but Superboy-Prime read comic books, and he also has super-willpower.  So when he saw images he didn't like in those crystals, Superboy-Prime literally "banged the television set" until the reception cleared to his liking.  That's why Lois felt Superboy-Prime's blows, and not Kal-L's when he broke through, and why the Earth-2 Kal-L did not change Reality when doing so.

But Superboy-Prime's biography in "Infinite Crisis Secret Files" says that he arrived on Earth-Prime in a ROCKET SHIP and was raised on the Kent FARM.  Huh?  Obviously since Superboy-Prime never learned about his true history, he assumed it was like the Supermen he read about.  There HAD to be a rocket ship and a farm!  And so there was -- Superboy-Prime inadvertantly changed his own past, based on lack of information and romantic boyish dreamings (he claims that his superpowers kicked in right after Laurie Lemon kissed him, somewhat like a Warner Brothers cartoon character going off like a skyrocket after a smooch).  So the monster in "Infinite Crisis" was no longer the same kid seen in "DC Comics Presents #87" -- he was literally a "self-made Superman".  And who knows what this tampering with his own identity meant for his mental stability?

As for the basic "goodness of the El Family", I hold that everyone should be equally capable of good or evil.  It is his struggle to remain good at all times and uphold the values taught by his adoptive parents (despite the corrupting temptations of absolute power) that make Superman interesting, not because he's inherently incorruptible due to some family genetics.  And we've seen other examples of "Els gone wrong" in Imaginary Stories and Pre-Crisis Earth-3.  Knowing that it's only Superman's self-restraint and love of humanity that keeps him from abusing his incredible powers is part of the Superman mystique that draws admiration and respect among his fellow citizens.  If the El Family is basically "good", it's because of their belief system and upbringing, not due to their genetic heritage.  And "Infinite Crisis" might show what happens when an El grows up without such mentoring -- old Kal-L was shown as a complete failure as a "father figure", and the results were catastrophic.

"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society."  Theodore Roosevelt

Also this SBP was not affected by magic, isn't that one of the big ones for krytonians?

No, it was a big one for every living being in that universe, not just krytonians. However, SBP was from Earth-Prime, which was based on reality aka no magic, thus it doesn't effect him.

I have another solution to all of this:


DC Comics just screwed up.  Combine that with the fact that they don't really care about the fans who read Superboy Prime's debut in DC Comics presents, and you have the reason why they made him so totally evil.

That is sadly the most likely truth.

I always wanted to imagine SBP as being a conterpart to UltraMan, rather than Superman.  That'd help explain why Alex was able to turn him so easily, and why he killed so recklessly.

I'm Chevy Case and


I'd love to see this connection expanded on!  I'm intrigued by the possiblilities it implies....

It would ALSO make it seem a LOT less like DC was trying to trash Superman's name, wouldn't it?  ;)

dto makes a valid argument for IC Superboy Prime's continuity errors and character flaws.

unfortunately occam's razor all the way on this one

sort of sad, really

Yeah, despite recent gains, we still have a ways to go.

Just as long as we don't take any steps BACKWARDS!  ;)

Superboy-Prime lived a good, full life in SUPERMAN: SECRET IDENTITY, having been planted back in that dimension by Alex Luthor before he became nuts.

Ah, Uncle Mxy, if only. SECRET IDENTITY was Busiek's nod to the Earth-Prime Superboy, not the EPSB himself. It'd be nice to think that he's out there somewhere, happy in the pocket universe created by Alex that contains both Earth-2 and Earth-Prime, maybe even Earth-C and Earth-C-Minus. ;) One can dream.

 Dto, your ideas are not only interesting, but frightening as all heck.  If we consider that Earth-Prime is the 'hub' of the multiverse, and that if something is created there it's reflected in the contemporary DCU. . .well, that's a chilling thought. A creative individual could wield metafictional powers there on a level that'd make the Anti-Monitor look like the Turtle.

 I can understand why DC did what it did; nothing boosts sales like surprise revelations, and what's more surprising than finding Superman as your bad guy? But this was abomination. Killing Superman-2, the original Superman from the Golden Age, in a death that makes Kirk's last gasp after falling off a darn bridge seem epic by comparison, and having both Superboys either die or go insane. . .it was crass. It's shaken my faith in the editorial hand at DC's rudder. I always assumed that DC would never go the darker route of Marvel, but you know what happens when one tends to assume things. :(

 -Def.

I know, but I can hope, can't I?  :)

Keep these thoughts in mind... it helps me cope with this...

I figure Earths 1, 2, 3, S, X, Prime, etc are all still out there in the Multiverse.  The Earths that we saw in COIE are all on yet another dimensional plane... the plane that yielded this travesty of a Earth that is being presented in DC Comics today.

Just as I feel that the Earth 1 of the '70's was a different Earth 1 that was presented in the '60's and the '80's.  The characters of those eras were different from each other, but similar enough to carry continuity.  Compare the Earth 1 Superman, Batman, Flash, etc of the 1970's and you find VERY different characters than were found in the '60's

Davidelliot, you're thinking about Hypertime, where alternate timelines are constantly spinning off DC's Mainstream Continuity.  One can imagine Earths-1,2,3,S and X surviving had the Anti-Monitor perished during the assault on his Fortress (with or without the death of Supergirl).  Earth-Prime and a couple others MIGHT also survive if the anti-matter wall dispersed with the Anti-Monitor's death.

One might also conceive alternate timelines where the Crisis NEVER occurred at all (such as the Imaginary Story in "Superman Family #200" where in the year 2000 Clark and Lois Kent are expecting a son, their daughter Laura is just developing superpowers, and Superwoman is also Governor Linda Danvers of Florida!), or where the Crisis was actually "DC Challenge!" (perhaps this happened to Earth-B, the home of "out-of-continuity" stories).  

As for your observation that "Earth-1" also differed between the decades, one might assume there were OTHER temporal Crises that mildly rebooted history but unlike the great Crisis of 1985 these were NOT remembered!  (Now we know how Superman and Batman never aged, and why Supergirl reverted to a 19-year-old college student!)   :wink:   Or perhaps the "reader focus" was unconsciously shifted from one "Earth-1" to another  Hypertime "Earth-1" that was set slightly later -- thus the explanation for the "floating timeline".