Superman Through the Ages! Forum

The Superboy entry is quite franky...pretty lame. It had lots of potential, but it now reads like a list of facts with very little infomation given to them. As an essay, it would get a D, if you were lucky. Just compare that to Superman's Entry or most any other hero's entry.

Come on this is SUPERBOY!!!!!, he had many stories and a few different series all pre-crisis for him, surely someone around here has to have a few of these comics to recap for the entry?

see for yourself: http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Superboy

hang your head in shame then lift it back up and do something about it.

Here's a question I have about "big ticket" entries like Superboy who have lived through many hundreds and hundreds of adventures...is it a better idea to give lots of individual story details and references in these entries or under separate entries in Supermanica that link to Superboy?

For example, I probably have good knowledge of about 10 stories and have made some entries on them...I'm not really sure if they are "big" enough in his total "life" to add them in the Superboy category...

In some ways, is it better to thave more general all-encompassing stuff in the "big" entries?

Yes, but we don't even have that now.

Kal's Pal gave a really nice template on what the topics should be, if we only followed that then we would have something special:

Guys, I've written up a possible 'Table of Contents' that could be used (and editied) for Superboy (just to maybe jumpstart interest in contributing to the entry), what do you think?

Overview

Origin

The Secret Identity

The Costume

Smallville

The Super-Powers

The Vulnerabilities

The Boy Himself (as Clark Kent)

The Boy Himself (as Superboy)

Family, Friends and Allies

-Raised By Jonathan and Martha Kent

-The Relationship with Lana Lang

-The Friendship with Pete Ross

-Ally of the Legion of Super-Heroes

-As the Owner of Krypto the Super-Dog

Relationship with the Law-Enforcement Establishment

The Texts

-Locales

-Developments

--Encountering his Future Self (as Superman)

--Encountering Supergirl

--Death of the Kents

--Becoming Superman

Cheers! ;) I never persued going about that, 'cause I got no response when I suggested the template. What does everyone else think? Been away from Supermanica myself...

I see where you guys are coming from, for me, I feel really underqualified for those categories...for example, I read about 7 stories with young Lana Lang when I was a kid, but for some reason, I don't know if I could summarize her overall relationship with Superboy...

Maybe I'm better at single entries and cleaning up links that need to be done, etc... 8)

I'm on it! However, I'll need to be able to list More Fun Comics as a canonical Superboy source. Any objections?

Yes, but ONLY the superboy issues:

MFC  More Fun Comics  [101–107]

I can see no reason not to add it.

as a matter of fact:

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Canonical_sources

TGSB has hardly any Superboy info other than Legion stuff, so there is quite a void there.

I'm a little confused about "The College Years" category, even in light of your entry that Clark considers himself Superman early in college...

That was revised later, so that Clark became Superman in his late junior year/early senior year of college.

Thanks, SM!  I have one more monkey-trick for you  :wink:

I'll be using Superboy Annual #1 (SBA) as I write this. It's not yet on the canonical sources list, either.

I have no problem with that per-say, but the stories were all reprints, there was only one issue, so it was basically a TPB.

See here to see where each story came from and use that as a guide:

http://www.comics.org/details.lasso?id=18480

I like the relation with future self subtitle.

Gangbuster, I realize the tenses are a mess.  But most of Supermanica should be written in present tense (even though Superboy is technically in the past, so are all of Superman's adventures).  The exception is maybe Krypton.

That problem with the past, present, and future again... 8)

I've been trying to keep to the present tense myself, but its all another reminder that even when there is a great spectrum of entries, there is a ways to go to get a consistency...

So what?  Its fun...

I've tried to write this in present tense. However, the first two sections are complicated by quotes in the past tense, one by Maggin and one by Superman himself.

Nevertheless, I'm going to bed. Feel free to mess around with tenses while I'm asleep.

I wouldn't dream of it.

 :wink:

I finally added The Smallville Orphanage to the Supermanica, amazingly this wasn't added until today! I guess sometimes it's more fun to add those oddball characters that no one has ever heard of than the obvious entries.

Now you can use this info to the Superboy entry.

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Smallville_Orphanage

Thanks. I have a question: The 1973 origin on this site- the one by Bridwell/Infantino that shows Superboy leaving Smallville and baking a giant cake for the townspeople- where is this story originally from?

I believe this story was originally done for the treasury-sized "World of Superman" comic published by (or for) the folks in Metropolis, IL.  Notice how Ma and Pa Kent's gravestones are in the back yard (http://superman.nu/origin/27.php) - that's because the people designing the theme park (http://superman.nu/sites/superworld/1.php) planned to place the gravestones in the backyard.



More explanation here (http://superman.nu/origin/31.php):





All the stories in "The World of Superman" were presented in a B&W wash.  I think this one was finally colored for publication in "The Great Superman Comic Book Collection (http://superman.nu/tales2/whotook/aboutspeced.php)" (and/or one of the original "Superman in the 70s/80s" books), which is where I got it from.







Its upcoming reprint in the "Superman Returns" comic will be the first time it's been printed in a conventional comic-book.



The fact that the rocket doesn't explode does a great job of merging the traditional comic-book origin with the movie origin, a fortuitous happenstance.

The cake first appeared in the 1955 story "Superboy's Last Day in Smallville", and appeared in various flashback stories again and again over the ensuing years...

Re: Supermanica: I'd consider adding stuff, but not sure if I'd be writing in a "correct" writing style or not. I've had lots of experience writing for Wikipedia (including writing some Superman-related articles from scratch or revamping them to include Golden and Silver Age historical info...), but stopped writing for it recently out of growing annoyed with dealing with Wikipedia's hijinks (people with political agendas, having my stuff eliminated wholesale or edited  to death, stupid posters, correcting stuff constantly growing more of a chore than fun, etc.), so not sure if there'd be danger of that happening here....

By all means please add whatever you want, as long as it is Pre-crisis only and as long as it happen in one of the canonical sources.
http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Canonical_sources

Always include sources for everything, kept to the facts rather than personal opinion and you are good to go.

see this for more details:
http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Supermanica:Help


The more pre-crisis fans add to it the better!

So please add away Johnny Nevada :)

No doubt, join in...I started a few weeks ago and so far this is a small Wiki site as far as contributors go, edits haven't been drastic at all, some folks have stopped by and added post crisis stuff, but its been taken care of...

*Whew* I've done a lot of typing in the last day, but the Superboy entry is now a lot bigger and more thorough. A couple of things still need attention, though (besides basic editing and proofreading.)

First of all, the introductory-summary section probably needs a lot of work; however, I don't want to touch it, and I don't know who wrote it.

Second, as for Superboy's adventures in the 30th century, I only have one issue of Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes. That probably isn't going to cut it...maybe someone with several more of those issues can help expand that section.

As for now, I'm signing off for day 2...

The reason why it reads so strange is because many different people wrote it, the facts are great but it doesn't work as an intro since it's all over the place,  so we will want to keep the facts and move them to a different section and expand the intro so that it is more cohesive.

Yeah, I am tempted to junk or radically rearrange most of that intro and piece together something similar to the first 2-3 paragraphs of the Superman essay, with reference to actual quotes/issues.

The entry is looking up!

Thanks, all...

Few more questions:

-  Is there any distinction made in entries between Golden Age/Earth-2 and Silver Age/Earth-1 versions of characters/events? On Wikipedia, I'd usually make seperate sections for Golden Age, Silver Age, and Modern Age versions of characters and places like Lois Lane or the Daily Planet, with appropriate info under each section (though mostly since there was a lack of pre-Crisis info on said versions of characters/events).

- Am I allowed to upload scanned-in pictures? Have tried to scan in some comic panels and upload them to Wikipedia, only to see some people delete/replace them for petty reasons...

no, not within the entry itself, but the entries should go in the proper category http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Category:Golden_Age_%281938-1955%29

Here are some examples:

Pure Golden Age: http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Minerva_Kent

Pure Sliver Age: http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Hyper-Man

Pure Bronze Age: http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Terra-Man

Entries that are two ages or more:

Golden and Sliver (and bronze but that part hasn't been added as of yet)

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Hercules

Sliver and Bronze

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Amalak



yes you can, just please keep the file sizes as small as you can, so that the images load quickly and we don't kill the server with big images.

That should always be under 100kb for larger ones and you should aim at 50kb or less.

BTW,

The Superboy entry is coming along great, keep it up everyone!

If you can prove that certain Golden Age events took place on Earth-2, I would be interested in reading the article.  There are certain entries that are based on clearly identified Earth-2 adventures (usually published in Bronze Age).



Scan away!

I'm having a problem with the "Discrepancies in early accounts" part of the Superboy entry. I moved it to the bottom because I thought it was from the Great Superman Book; however, I've looked through the Superman entry in TGSB and have been unable to find it.

If it is from TGSB, I want to preserve that section. If not, it is factually incorrect in light of More Fun Comics 101-107, and I need to do something with it or change it somehow.

It seems to rely on the original telling and the 1948 origin story for the most part...so, I'm not sure what you mean by "factually incorrect", but further discrepencies shown from the More Fun origin should be there too...

Superboy is a tough entry, even more than the discrepencies of Superman, because along with a long history, he was always on the way to transitioning to someone else...

I think I added that section, taken mostly from Superman: The Man Himself in TGSB.  Can't remember if it is a direct transcription or if Superboy references were added.  I don't think it is incorrect (in the sense that it refers to the various retcons and issues in which Superman/boy learns of his origins and to the times Superman's origins were rehashed,excluding any mention of Superboy) but room should be made for references to the More Fun and early Superboy title stories for sure.  And I think it looks better near the top of the entry, near the earliest adventures.

Rao has mentioned that Superboy could be a separate entity from Superman, based on the earliest accounts of both.

I actually think the Superboy entry will be a little less complicated than the Superman entry, since it avoids the Earth-2 problem. My knowledge must increase to finish it, though. I dine on Legion archives tonight!

Telle, I revised the 'discrepancies' entry earlier today. Let me know what you think. And SM, you are a victim of being caught between edits...you did some stuff before I clicked 'submit' on my last edit, so you'll probably have to go through and add it again. Sorry.

I have apparently made some people very angry, and I'm not quite sure how. But I'd like to address a couple of things:

First of all, the accusation that I erased things from The Great Superman Book. This is untrue; TGSB says "see Superman" for the Superboy entry. I looked over the Superman entry to make sure that I wasn't erasing anything from it, and posted here for a second opinion. Then, I didn't erase any existing material anyway, merely moved things to the appropriate sections.

Second, the assertion that I think Superman: The Secret Years makes other accounts of Superman's college years "unfactual." I do not; however, besides the one panel in "The Story of Superman's Life," there are a grand total of six comics that deal with Superman/boy's college years. One is "Clark Kent's College Days," one is the Lori Lemaris story, and the other four are Superman: The Secret Years. Sorry if the material seems weighted toward the majority of them.

Goodnight.

Not sure if anyone's angry...

Its a big group edited entry, so it seems like various accounts ought to be entered without any one being said to be the truth...

But thats just me, discussion about it is fine, that's what this forum is for, right?

BTW, you entered huge chunks of info that was great, IMO.  Supermonkey can speak for himself, but he added back a couple of sentences.  My take, like the story of Superboy's earliest adoptive parents, is that they are all chronicled, so any minor edits I did were to change the person of "Superboy" because there are different accounts and no one is "right" or "wrong", but all the work you put in is still there...

A retcon by any other name is still a retcon. There is no harm in pointing out that there were separate accounts.

About that one, I was mostly just peeved because "unfactual" is not a word. It is an affront to the English language. It's not even a Kryptonese word. You, sir, have failed!

But satisfactual, that should be a word!

OK, I used "unfactual" in a comment on an edit...I failed... :lol:

Anyways, there are accounts, like Superman driving his Superboy robots into the sun when he went off to college or when Clark says he deserves to be called a man after the second encounter with the "Super Teacher from Krypton" that suggests that it is ambiguous when the "boy" became a "man"...to me (and maybe I'm wrong), I thought that Supermanica chronicles the stories without saying whether something like this is right or wrong (or retcons and story)...its fine with me, maybe it deserves discussion, but practically everything you wrote about the stories is still there...

Edited this...

It's ok, I been looking through the TGSB for any Superboy info, finding only a few lines, about Superboy day and those few lines, then they get deleted after all that work!! NOoooooooooo. anyway, I wasn't too please , but they were added back and all is well, so don't worry about it. But, I hope you understand why I was upset at the time. I am over it now.

Add away! :p

Now I will try to finish the Legion entry, which will give us more info for Superboy.

edit for update:

I updated both Legion entries

Legion of Super-Villains and  Legion of Super-Heroes

Wow, fantastic job, guys!  That Superboy entry is extremely impressive.

:s:

Glad to hear it...sometimes you wonder if a group effort is going to work... 8)

I do hope that Gangbuster isn't angry, he put most of the text in, and  almost every sentence is there...

I am sure he is happy, that it's even better now, I hope Superboy fans like it.

Well, now I'm waiting for more on Tarik the Mute and the full Legion of Super Villains, its a complicated story that I am not totally clear on...

I added all that I knew, so that will be up for others to complete.

I am still working on the Legion entry however, and it is almost done...

as far as TGSB goes.

I would like someone to take over from there and actually go into the Jim Shooter years.

The entry is looking great.  The narrative sweep of some sections is amazing --you can really get a sense of the growth and development of Superboy as a teen through the death of the Kents and on.

I remember at least one other college story from the 70s (a back-up feature or Superman Family tale) in which Clark goes on a geology dig in the American Southwest with a friend from college --can't remember any other details but I will try to "dig" it up.  There is also a reference to a meeting between Clark and Luthor in one of the Maggin books when Clark almost tells his secret to Lex, who is masquerading as someone else in order to take a few courses.  I'm sure there may have been more Bronze-age college stories.

Also the meetings between Superboy and Superman, I belive they have met twice, one was in the Superman in the 70's TPB and the other in DC Comics Presents.

I'm not sure if this is one of those two, but there was a multi-part crossover between Superboy and one of the Superman titles where Superboy's mind came to the future to inhabit Superman's body, while Superman's mind went to the past to inhabit Superboy's body.  They had to work together across the time-stream to get the trouble straightened out.

:s:

well, I thought wrong!  :shock:

The story in the TPB is actually the one from DCCP!  :oops:

Oh, this rings a bell. Is that when Pete Ross went crazy?

I think Lex cooks it up so he can fight an inexperienced Superman.  Some nice touches with adult Lois and "young" Superman.

Looking good! Sorry I haven't updated the Superboy entry any more. It's not because I'm angry at anyone or anything...I'm in the middle of some super-stressful wedding planning! We did find a place to live yesterday, though...  :D

Anyway, I'll be away this weekend at a friend's wedding...in the BAHAMAS. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up the entry when I return next week.

Wow, that last post was 4 months ago. I've been married for 3 months now!  :D

I have a question about the Superboy entry. I've still been working on it when I can, and I originally created a section called Superboy Returns: Adventures in the Thirtieth Century to cover events that took place in Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes.

However, I was looking over the canonical sources today and the series isn't listed; only issues 1-196 of Superboy, before the name change, are listed. Is this oversight or is it intentional? (The SB/LSH issues were #197–258.)

I think it was intentional, since at the time it was considered too huge to include, but perhaps it might be time to rethink that.

Perhaps you should started a new thread and state your case!

Yeah, I'd be in favor of extending it --many of those stories feature starring or important roles for SB.

(On the other hand, Legion info far exceeds Superboy info available online and we should try to redress that.)

Rao?

When I was putting the initial list of canonical sources together, I intentionally cut-off the Superboy series at the name change.  My thinking at the time was that including the Legion would be too big, because an LSH encyclopedia would probably be larger than an entire-DCU-minus-the-Legion encyclopedia, and I didn't want the Legion taking over the Wiki.

This might be another consideration for the "outside the purvue of Supermanica, but we refer to some of the events" sub-canon category.

:s:

Good point. One possibility could be a rule that no new entries can be created from the Superboy/LSH series. Material from the series could only be added to expand the Superboy entry or existing LSH entries, perhaps?

I too can foresee how making this series completely canonical could keep me clicking 'next 200' for 5 hours in the entries category.

It's the same reason behind other Superman related books not being included like:

Justice League of America
All-Star Squadron

Both are large enough to have their own Wiki's

and some lesser series like
Infinity, Inc

Still too many, and a few others.