Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Batman has changed a lot over the years. Some of the different "types" of Batman I have seen are:*

1939-1941: An early Batman. From the days when he carried a gun and fought werewolves.
1941-1949: The war-time Batman and Robin
1950s: The "campy" Batman and Robin

Beyond this I don't really know what I am talking about so I will let older wiser people fill in the gap between the 60's and the present day.

Who is your favorite and why?

Me? I like the WWW II stories. They just seem like the most exciting.

*The dates are general. Correct me if I got something majorly wrong.

I wouldn't called the 1950's campy...

1950's: Sci-Fi era, Batman in Space! Aliens and other wacky elements invade the Batman comic, during this time superheroes went out of style and sci-fi was huge, Superman and Batman survive by becoming Sci-Fi hero books, worked perfect for Superman, Batman, well not so much, but it sure has lots of charm.
1960's: Campy TV Show era, the Batman TV Show becomes such a huge hit, that DC decides to market the comic to the TV viewers in order to cash in on the fad, so the comic now is just like the TV show.
1970's: Return of the true Dark Night (Neal Adams), Neal Adams and friends bring Batman back to the 30's and 40's vibe updated for the times, considered by many Batman's best era.
1980's: Frank Miller/Crisis Darker era , Crisis, Year One and Dark Night Returns set the mode for all stories to follow.
1990's: Darker still era, Batman's back gets broken, new Robin, lots of crappy new heroes and gimmicks.l
2000's: Grim cold black era: Batman never smiles, he can defeat anyone even gods, might be more powerful than Darkseid and Superman combine somehow, Batman acts like a complete jerk, and doesn't get along with any other hero.

There was some stuff from the 50s that was probably a bit silly, but that was when he and Robon set themselves apart as heroes using normal abilities in all kinds of mysterious situations, and gave him his individuality for me...

I have a certain fondness for the silliness of the 1950s (Bat-Hound in his mask is one of the most charming ideas ever), but by and large I'm probably more of a 1970s man. The first Batman story I ever read featured the Scarecrow and took place in an abandoned amusement park (I can't remember where it appeared). It scared the beejeezus out of me.

I liked the 70's myself.  Some of the 50's stories were quite good, however.

The Timm/Dini-derived works deserve special mention for the 1990s, being light years ahead of what was going on in the mainstream Bat-Books.  The Ty Templeton / Dan Slott Batman Adventures was certainly the best Batman comic going until its recent cancellation.

Yes, but those were not considered Cannon, but they were way, way, way better than the cannon comics.

The Neal Adams Batman and the one draw by Marshall Rogers are great for me but (maybe i'm not so popular in saying this but i like so much the Batman characterized by Grant Morrison in JLA).                                              

 :s:  :s:  :s:

You meant "canon", right?  I'll only accept "cannon" as in "Azrael and Hush should've be shot out of a cannon".  :)

yes canon, sorry.

I love the Marshall Rogers Batman. I don't know about the Grant Morrison version, but I am a closet (okay, not so closet) Frank Miller fan, and I'm sure people will hate me for that. Batman: Year One was, for my money, one of the best written and best drawn Batman stories ever. Dark Knight Returns was right up there too, but to be honest I liked it more for its take on the DCU and its satirical content than for its actual take on Batman himself.

While the artwork in the 70's is considered iconic, I choose the 50's. After reading a few issues there is such disparity from what came before and after (even the 60's). Plus, 50's Batman is the antithesis of the dark brooding insane Bats from 1986 onward. Silly Batman fighting aliens for me, he needed to lighten up anyways.  :D

My vote's the 70's version easily... halfway between the "wacky space aliens" era of the late 50's/early 60's and the stupid a****** he is in the current/recent comics (apologies for the language... though guess I'm being *nice* re: my opinion of current-day Bats...). The Animated Batman of the 90's is also a favorite.

I likes my Batman like I likes my Superman, all blue and silvery.

Batman from the (40s) 50s and 60s is best.  But I also like some classic 70s (Joker's 5-Way Revenge was a (eek!) childhood favourite) and 80s (Year One was a great Commissioner Gordon story by probably one of the best artists to work on Batman ever).

I loved the Batman/Batmite cartoon show (70s) and the 60s Adam West.

Like Telle, Im inclined to agree. Nothing says Bats to me like Dick Sprang  but I also dug the New Look designed by Carmine Infantino esp the stories he illoed including the first one set in an erstaz Greenwich Village.  Nathc, the Denny O'Neill - Neal Adams stories.  In the Jokers story, Telle mentions one of the Joker's henchmen (the one with the long hair) was artist Steve Mitchell who was working at Contyinuity at the time.  "Night of the Reaper' set in Rutland, Vt. Halloween bash was another fave.

The 70s were certainly an exciting time to be a Batman fan (hence my "bronze-Age Batfan" site, embryonic though it is: http://batfan.superman.nu), what with Neal Adams, Irv Novick and Jim Aparo art all over the place, creepy-cool stories by Denny O'Neil, Frank Robbins and others, genuine, bona-fide mystery stories by writers like David V. Reed, those far-out, weirdo tales by Bob Haney over in Brave and the Bold, and finishing off with the stellar "Detective" run by Englehart and Rogers in '78 or so.  



I love the output of the 40s and 50s (the latter of which wasn't really all Sci-Fi; just the stuff featured on the covers), I'm so-so about the 60s (love the TV show but didn't much care for silly junk like the "Outsider" saga), but my vote has to go to the 70s.  This was a period where Batman managed to be creepy but not gruesome, formidable but not omnipotent, serious but not a jerk, and above all a hero...not a nutjob.  Modern writers are so sure they've got Bats all figured out by playing up this "vengeance-crazed" portrayal; they think this approach is more sophisticated and "realistic." What it really does is emasculate the character.  It casts Bruce Wayne as the eternal victim, forever unable to overcome the childhood tragedy that poisons his mind and renders relationships and personal growth impossible.  In the modern books, the bad guys have already won, because they've destroyed Batman from the inside.  In the 70s, Batman did what he did because it was the right thing to do and he could do it better than anyone else.  He was a hero who turned a tragedy into something positive.



But picking the 70s is also cheating a bit, because in the 70s I had re-runs of the 60s TV show every day after school, and those wonderful 100-Page Super-Spectaculars that always included stories from every decade.  The 70s gave young fans like me easy access to Batman's entire history, and I learned to love it all.

I have to agree with Nightwing, the 1970s were a really great high-point of Bat-History. Not just because of the art, though Jim Aparo and Marshall Rogers deserve all the props they can get.

Frank Robbins was at the top of his game, and hell, even Dennis O'Neil was much more hit than miss; ol' Denny could write one ripping detective yarn, and it should be noted that even though Batman took on many a crook mano-a-mano in his tales, not once did Batsy take a crook out the same way: I'm reminded of one O'Neil Two-Face pirate ship issue where Batman leapt under a speeding car and grasped a man by the leg!

This was a decade of crime/detective stories, which reached a crescendo under Englehart. Other decades had a detective Batman, however, because of the loosening of the comics code that came in this decade (hell, one look at the Claremont UNCANNY X-MEN and there's the White Queen in lingerie) they could go into detail: for instance, Dr. Phosphorus's water supply plan would not have been possible pre-code weakening, where "details of a crime were prohibited."

There was also Len Wein's awesome Bat-stories. Len Wein is the great unsung hero of the 1970s: whether it was his ripping post-Roy Thomas run on MIGHTY THOR or his Chemo Superman stories, his reintroduction of the X-Men after a half-decade of hiatus, or his Batman stories which featured a Batman that was a swashbuckler with more of a "crimefighter" in him.

This was also the decade of the absolutely bizarre Jim Aparo BRAVE AND THE BOLD team-ups where Batman teamed up with whatever insane thing the writers wanted him to: the Viking Prince, Sgt. Rock, Kamandi...

And then we have the Steve Englehart/Marshall Rogers DETECTIVE.

Steve Englehart's work on Batman was supposed to have been his retirement from comics, and oh, what a retirement gift it would have made! (Though I am happy Stainless was able to stick around to give us his incredible FANTASTIC FOUR run and COYOTE).

The thing that I like best about the Englehart DETECTIVE issues, besides the incredibly moody and atmospheric art by Marshall Rogers, is that it was all completely unpredictable. Who could have seen coming Hugo Strange's unmasking of the Batman - or worse, REPLACING the Batman himself? Or Boss Thorne "cheating" at the Bat-Auction to get ahold of the Batman's identity by meeting Hugo Strange after and roughing him up, or (even more unpredictably) the fact that Hugo Strange would NEVER reveal Batman's identity because of his deep and profound respect for his rival?

The reason that Batman's detective abilities were so astonishing was because Steve thought it all through, every detail. In the Hugo Strange issue, for instance, Batman only wanted to change into his Bat-outfit when he noticed there were no cameras in the room where he stayed. Often as a reader one tends to come up with better plans than the character does and suggest possible courses of actions; here, we had a Batman that was the opposite: smarter than the reader. And his mystery story with the Malay Penguin was one that was well thought out, and downright unpredictable - it wasn't an exercise in going from Point A to Point B.

Steve also was really, really good at using history, and this should go without saying for a guy that brought in Hugo Strange for the first time since Gardner Fox, but it wasn't just about bad guys he dusted off; it was about little things, like how some members of the Tobacconists Club were nervous about discrediting Batman because Ra's tried a similar plan and failed, and the giant chess set, and the fact that he and Deadshot had a fight in a museum of giant props.

The Tobacconists Club were a very worthy pulpish enemy; collection of ruthless and powerful men. Amazing how ruthless and crooked Boss Thorne was characterized as being when he beat up Batman's other enemies to get Batman's secret ID.

My favorite detail was how well Englehart defined the relationships in Batman's life. People have been wondering what the relationship between Robin and Batman is for a while. Is it mentor/student? Is it father/son?

The answer Englehart gave was much more simple and more satisfactory, I think: they're friends, especially now that Robin was older.

Everyone's characterization was complex. Silver, for instance, was not your usual hero girlfriend; she was formidably intelligent; you can see her playing chess with Batman (and winning).

1970's Batman was the best for me, best writing, best art, he was dark but without being a jerk, he was a true hero, it was just perfect.

I also have a soft spot for the atomic 1950's Batman comics, with Bathound, Batwoman, and Zebra Batman :)

I really don't care for the 40's batman, the artwork is just too terrible and the stories are kind of boring, cool concepts however, but that's about it.

The 1960's comics, were crap, sorry. I loved the TV show however, go figure!

oh, and those 1980's Frank Miller Batman comics are a guilty pressure for me, DKR works great as an elseworlds tale, but they should have just left it as that, instead of trying to make the real Batman act that way. Frank Miller like Neal Adams may have lost it, it's true, but they were pretty hot stuff during their peaks. But not anymore... did you guys see that All-Star Neal Adams cover? yuck.. or for that matter Frank Miller's All-Star Batman, bigger yuck...

Its funny, I really like 1960s Batman in his World Finest's appearances, the team seemed well-balanced...

yes, because he acted more like his 50's sci-fi self there, besides that is more of a Superman book  :P

I always liked the "Game of Secret Identities" where (after a memory wipe) Batman and Robin easily figure out Superman's identity, but when the table is turned, Superman goes obsessive and even ignores near-disasters he needs to attend to to try to figure out Batman's identity...

And Batman gets the final word, after he "lets" Superman succeed, he tells Robin something like, "Superman may be the world's mightiest man, but we are the world's greatest detectives"...

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned some of the eighties Batman stuff yet.

There was Alan Brennert''s BRAVE AND THE BOLD stuff, like BRAVE AND THE BOLD #182 (1982) that featured a team-up between Earth-1 Batman and Earth-2 Robin and Batwoman. Easily it was one of the most powerful moments in Batman's history when Batwoman confesses that she always loved the Earth-2 Batman. But then, one day, his whole demeanor and way of treating her had changed. And then she knew, without ever actually being told, that Batman in his secret identity must have gotten married.

Some of the best Jason Todd stories came about in the early to mid eighties too, including that Teen Titans story arc in Zandia and the Alan Moore Superman Annual. Jason Todd ought to have been continued to be characterized the way he was in these stories, as a surprisingly resourceful and plucky kid who is often underrated, but to whom there was much more than meets the eye. If he had been played this way, I doubt that whole ugly debacle with the call-in-death would have happened at all, and Jason Todd would be Robin to this day.

I never liked Miller's DKR until I realized that this story wasn't supposed to be about Batman, it was supposed to be about a future unstable Batman. When read in that light, the story became more enjoyable and you can concentrate on things like Miller's punchy, gutsy prose. Not since Roy Thomas has a guy put more meat in caption boxes!

As a guilty pleasure, I loved the four-part story arc with KGBeast. I mean, it had so many cute stuff. He replaced his hand with a "handgun" (tee hee) and Batman came to the rescue of Ronald Reagan (!)

The majority of those classics were written by the great Ed Hamilton!

As was the story I liked! 8)  And the funny thing was that it wasn't classic "science fiction", it was a realization that each had a strength the other couldn't duplicate...

Len Wein is 58 today!

http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/happy_58th_birthday_len_wein1/

Happy Birthday to Len Wein, the guy that gave us the incredible "A Caper a Day Keeps the Batman At Bay" in BATMAN #312 (1979), which best summed up Len Wein's sort of crimefighter spirit. He wasn't Steve Englehart (but who is?). Len Wein wasn't heavy on atmosphere and pacing like Stainless was, but nonetheless Wein's Batman stories moved fast, had witty quips, and featured a Batman that used his brain. Len Wein's plots were clean and correct.

I almost forgot to mention Len Wein's amazing BLUE BEETLE miniseries in the 1980s, immediately after CRISIS, which featured Ted Kord as a brainy swashbuckler that didn't take himself seriously, the best writing that Blue Beetle got since the 1960s, and alas, not to last more than a year before my sworn comics creator archnemesis, Keith Giffen, sank his meat hooks into the character and made his death a mercy killing.

People tend to praise the Walt Simonson MIGHTY THOR highly, and for once, the praise for a so-called "great" comics run is actually deserved; it was an extraordinary achievement. However, in recent times there has been a tendency to view MIGHTY THOR as a "troubled" title, with Simonson and the Lee/Kirby period as the sole bright spots. I don't agree with this view; the thing about the Simonson THOR was, it stood on the shoulders of giants, and continued plot threads and ideas that were present in the Len Wein and Roy Thomas MIGHTY THOR.

I well remember the Blue Beetle series of the 80s, but I'd forgotten it was by Len Wein. I really don't understand why DC seem to hate the character so much, having put him through the buffoonery of Giffen's JLI series and then shooting him like a dog. Then there's this latest incarnation, which is at best nebulous and at worst dull.

O'Neil/Adams.
I have never seen a so perfect Batman, really. That's the Batman I want!

Batman circa 1968 - about the time when Frank Robbins and Irv Novick came on board - right through the 1970s is tops in my book.

Then, I guess I would have to plump for the post-war period up to about 1955 or so, particularly anything by the great Dick Sprang.

"The New Look" period - 1964-68 - had some good stories, mainly by Carmine Infantino, but also its share of clunkers, particularly while the TV show was on-air.

The period 1939-45 had some good stories, but was hampered far too often by Bob Kane's work - a definite minus. Just about anything by Jack Burnley or Sprang is worthwhile, though, and Jerry Robinson is okay.

Batman went way downhill between the late 1950s and 1964, in my opinion, and was absolutely risible far too often.

Thank you Super Monkey for completing the time line.
   
I would really appreciate it if you could all keep the language in your posts very clean. Otherwise my dad will see to it that I'm off this website faster than a speeding bullet....

I think as far as art goes you have to ask what the illustrators were aiming for. The older illustrators weren't trying to draw Batman the way it is drawn now. It's a completely different style just like the TV show is different from the comics. It also seems to me that the different eras may have been (unintentionally) aimed at different audiences. The 60's stuff seems to be for younger kids than the stuff from the 40's, and the modern stuff appears to be for a much older audience.  

I think the early Batman-Superman team up's from World's Finest Comics were very good. Some of the stuff got a little out of this world (literally). But for the most part they were a great team. I don't really like it when Batman and Robin go up against supernatural monsters and aliens. Theoretically he shouldn't have been able to vanquish that many of them.

Batman got his back broken? Do I want to know how?

I found a Batman website that starts off with "In the beginning, a criminal killed his parents. In the end, a criminal killed him." DC killed Batman? How could they? Was it only on Earth 2?
The same site goes on to say that Batman married Catwomen and they had a daughter: the Huntress.
I once saw a picture of a cover where Batman and Vicky Vale (I think it was Vicky) were coming out of a church after getting married. Robin was watching them and thinking something along the lines of “What's going to happen to me now?" Has anybody seen this? Was it a joke? Did any of these marriages happen?

Yes, the Batman of Earth 2 married Selina Kyle, fathered the Huntress and was killed (story was well after my comics reading time, but some criminal he faced when he was older killed him and I think the criminal died as well)...

I have to ask, this is one of the most "clean cut" sites I have ever visited, I can't find any references to bad language in this thread...

Cheers.

I wanted to post that Frank Miller image of Batman saying "Watch ...wach your language." But can't find it --maybe I dreamed it.

Richard Grayson writes:



Wha...?  Why was I thinking you were older than most of us?  Or were you making a joke like when Johnny Carson said to an 80-something George Burns, "You've had an amazing career, haven't you? Going all the way back to vaudeville!"  and George answered, "Yes, my parents are very proud of me!"



I think comics, like cartoons, started out for all audiences and only over time became "kid's stuff."  As for the modern stuff, I don't know who it's aimed at.  It's certainly not suitable for children, but it's hard to imagine it appealing to anyone over 12.



Short answer?  No you don't.

Long(er) answer: Batman's back was broken by a third-rate villain named Bane in the "Knightfall" storyline back in the early 90s.  It was part of an effort to darken up the series with all sorts of violence and angst and bring a new "realism" to the books.  So of course at the end of the storyline Batman is magically healed by the touch of his super-powered girlfriend.  And having had several months to search the world and his soul from a wheelchair, Bruce Wayne makes a life-changing decision that affects the books for the next few years.  Specifically, he decides not to wear his underwear on the outside of his leotards any more.

In other words, a total waste of time and money and you're better off oblivious.



I'm drawing a blank on which story this quote is from, but yes it refers only to the Earth-2 Batman, who was killed by a temporarily super-powered nobody in a late 70s issue of Adventure Comics.  The story itself was pretty bad, but Alan Brennert and a couple of other writers did manage to use Batman's death as the inspiration for some great stories later on.

TELLE writes:



It's from "Dark Knight Returns," near the end of issue 3.  A kid at the carnival tells Batman to go kick Joker's a--  but before he can finish, Batman, holding his bleeding side, tells the kid to watch his language.

A memorable moment that showed Miller at least kind of understood Batman once upon a time.  In the current All-Star Batman, Bruce cusses out the very young Dick Grayson and seems to hate kids in general.

A few of my favorite Batman tales:

http://bat.mulu.nu/origin/
I really love the whole Joe Chill thing

http://bat.mulu.nu/crimson/
I like Trevor von Eeden, and seeing Batman call Robin "Chum."

http://bat.mulu.nu/autobiography/
I believe Mr. Grayson was asking about the Earth-2 Batman - this is a beautiful story.

And last but not least
http://bat.mulu.nu/player/
which I found to be a very powerful story.

I also really enjoyed Dark Knight Returns, and I still do, in spite of the bad fallout.

:s:

Whaaa? I didn't cuss at all, actually this message board is rigged so that cuss words are automaticlly censored, if it misses any, I will delete them when I catch them, tell your dad that this is a family site and proud of it! All the words that I used in that post could be use in any Disney cartoon, so relax. You have nothing to worry about.



No, no you don't and you dad would surely rip up that comic... if he has any taste!



Yes, that Batman was based on the 30's, 40's and 50's Batman. It's all true... on Earth-2.

Heh, heh! You didn't dream it: it's in DKR #3, when Batman is pursuing the Joker in the fairground. I'd scan it if I had an operational scanner...

Of course, I could just have read the other replies in the thread first and said "Yeah, what Nightwing said."

I actually didn't think much of the eighties stuff, in no small part because the art often let the bat-titles down (with the exception of the Miller stuff, especially Year One -- when Mazzuchelli drew that, he had just spent a few years in Paris, which seemed to have paid off tremendously).

Also, I didn't think much of Jason Todd, a sentiment in which I was clearly not alone since the readers voted to have him killed. Incidentally, DC appear to have reneged even on that now, as my understanding is that Jason has returned to Gotham and is wreaking havoc everywhere.

As has been quoted many times since the call-in; Jason lost his life by 7 votes.  Not a big majority, especially considering that most of the "kill him" votes were multiply cast.  One could vote as many times as one felt like calling a dedicated 900 number.

Like they did with Superboy Prime, DC has re-cast another of their best and brightest as a deranged lunatic.

:s:

The original Earth-1 Jason Todd was a completely different character, now almost forgotten.  I "discovered" Jason-1 a couple years ago, and I've been slowly collecting his appearances in Pre-Crisis Batman and Detective Comics.  Yes, he WAS somewhat of a "Dick Grayson clone" (ANOTHER orphaned circus acrobat?), but Jay was a thoroughly likeable kid who was still "learning the ropes" when he was retconned after Batman #400 (along with supporting Batfamily members Julia Remarque and Daphne Pennysworth).  Glimpses of this Jason was seen in Infinite Crisis, implying that his original background was altered to the street punk version due to Superboy-Prime's retcon-punches.  Well, at least DC didn't bring Jay back to die (yet) or utterly destroy him like poor Superboy-Prime.   :(

The 80s were a very mixed bag for me.  They started off great with Wein and Simonson's "Dreadful Birthday, Dear Joker" and then went downhill fast.  Too much of the decade was dominated by Doug Moench's scripts and art by guys like Gene Colan and Tom Mandrake, neither of which appeal to me.  Batman turned into a vampire, lauched an endless series of BORING romances with Selina Kyle, Vicki Vale and Nocturna and in just about every respect became what Frank Miller termed "fat and happy," a too-comfortable, generic superhero type who desperately needed the Dark Knight series as a kick in the pants.

Jason Todd started as a too-close imitation of Dick Grayson and was re-booted as an unlovable snot.  Max Allen Collins' run was suprisingly disappointing, Jim Starlin's stuff was way too brutal for my tastes and Jim Aparo's art, in my humble opinion, became every bit as boring and repetitive as people accused Curt Swan's of being (only Aparo somehow got a pass, while Curt was blasted and finally fired).

On the other hand, I really enjoyed the "jams" in Batman #400 and Detective #500 and the wonderful "6 Days of the Scarecrow" in 'Tec 503. Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle rarely disappointed during their run on Detective and Mike Barr and Alan Davis' run on that book, though brief, was a total joy for me.  And even those icky Moench stories often had artwork by the dearly missed Don Newton, a guy born to draw Batman if anyone ever was.  Brave and the Bold gave us Alan Brennert's wonderful "Interlude on Earth-2" in issue 182 and the unforgettable "Autobiography of Bruce Wayne" in issue 197, but otherwise was nowhere near as fun as it had been in the 70s.  "Batman and the Outsiders" was a dud.  

I agree with Rao that "Messiah of the Crimson Sun" made for a great annual, and VonEeden is another artist I'd like to see more Batman from (I even bought the dreadful "Bloodlines" tie-in the 90s just to see him do Batman again!). The Alan Moore/George Freeman Clayface tale in Annual #11 was also a winner.  Oh, and of course Batman: Year One! (the greatest thing about this one was that it appeared in the regular monthly, as opposed to the current habit of making anything at all "special" a mini of its own).

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5075/381/400/batlanguage.jpg)

As a huge fan of Doug Moench's incredible MASTER OF KUNG FU, I do seriously agree with you about his later works...it was like he made a conscious decision not to ever be excellent ever again. Of all the seventies Marvel writers (Mantlo, Englehart, Wolfman) his later stuff was the worst.

Though I have to disagree with you about how stylish Gene Colan's art was; he brought the old TOMB OF DRACULA spit and polish atmosphere to the Bat-books, and Englehart and Rogers showed that Batman is well off with atmosphere.

As for Jim Starlin...a serial killer foe like Abattoir (comics increase your WORD POWER!) would be interesting provided he was given a decent story, preferably one involving the Bat-Copter. He lacks the panache of someone like Signalman, but both stories have a different focus, and there was something neat about the idea of a crime where a man eats the hearts of a thousand white doves (TEMPLE OF DOOM, eat your heart out).



Listen to this guy, squirt. Man, does the language thing ever get my goat. Like Red Foxx, I have a filthy soul.

Anyway, complaining about language...on the internet? I thought the internet was one gigantic 24/7 German Sex Club.

Gene Colan is okay on the right book, I guess.  For me, his work has a murky, muddled quality, almost as if his figures are dissolving from human beings into some sort of liquid or maybe gaseous form and disintegrating before our eyes.  That sort of thing looked great on Dracula, a character who can turn to mist anyway if memory serves and at least has the ability to merge with the shadows.  I also didn't mind it on Dr Strange, whose tales have an other-wordly, dreamlike quality at times (and anyway, how many guys can draw Ditko's Dali-esque dreamscapes and not have it look like Ditko?  At least Colan was different).

On Batman, though, I tend to prefer solid anatomy and a bit of "realism" for lack of a better word.  Dick Sprang's stuff was highly stylized, but his Batman always had a heft and weight (if no neck!) that made him seem solid and real to me.  Neal Adams, Mike Golden, Marshall Rogers and Jim Aparo all went in wonderfully different directions with their Batman art but all managed to convey the image of a lithe, athletic protagonist, a flesh-and-blood human being under the cape and cowl.  I guess I just prefer that sense of solidity and physicality to my Batman art, and Colan draws characters like they're undulating puddles of ink with capes on.  This is the same reason I never dug him on Daredevil, another very physical character who cries out for an artist who can show a well-defined human body doing amazing, acrobatic things.

As for "atmosphere," I agree Batman needs it, but Don Newton managed to fit in almost as many blacks as Colan (which is a LOT!) while still maintaining that sense of "reality" I like.

Sorry I didn't write back right away. I was out of town.

Looking back now, I don't find any bad language besides h*ck. (which many people don't consider a bad word.) I guess that's a good thing. Sorry Super Monkey, I never meant you. I know you keep your posts clean.



No joke. I'm the same age Jim Olsen was in the 40's. I just happen to like old comics and radio shows.

By the way, what happened to the original Robin? (Dick) Did I hear he got fired? That doesn't sound like something the Batman I know would do.

Make sense to me.  I discovered old time radio shows when I was around 12 years old.  Great stuff.

I could swear we just talked about this a month or two ago...  I must be going senile in my old age.

:s:

The "firing" of Dick Grayson was a post-Crisis retcon (as was the street punk version of Jason Todd).  Here's a summary of the issue in question, part of the "Batman: Year One" re-telling of the Bat-mythos:  

Batman #408 [1987]: As Batman and Robin battle the Joker, Robin is shot and almost fatally wounded. Rather than see Dick be further endangered, Batman "fires" his partner, sidelining the Boy Wonder for a time. Months later while in Crime Alley, Jason Todd literally runs into the Batman.

You can read the earlier account of Dick Grayson's "resignation" at:

http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/dgrayson.html

Also check out the Jason Todd entry, particularly the bottom of the page which deals with the original Earth-1 Jason:

http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/robin2.html

Also these two stories excerpts:

http://bat.mulu.nu/robinnomore/
http://bat.mulu.nu/nightwing/

In between, Dick decides to give his Robin costume (and mantle) to Jason.  There are also a couple of Jason Todd stories in the Batman section (http://bat.mulu.nu/).


:s:

Perhaps you did. I thought I had gone over this whole site, but it is so big I could have missed something.

Thanks for all the links. I read through them, but I don’t like that newer stuff much. Firing Dick seem to have been pointless since they just kept trying to replace him. I still say that the best comics came out of the WWWII era. They had a good mix of danger and humor.

Kudos to the folks who are posting the online comics. Those and the DC Archives I order through the library are my only source of stories.

My favorite incarnation is the animated series and that prolly is in no small part because my introduction the character was with the late 70's stuff. A combo of that and renting Batman: From the 30's to the 80's from my local library as a kid.

Everything Miller and beyond has just been an endless ream of sludge. Jason may not have been a great character but the 1-800 number thing is a in my opinion one of the single most disgraceful things in the history of comics. I despise Killing Joke. Knightfall was laughable garbage. .and Batman as the guy who has a plan to beat everything and everybody because he's a hatefilled and paranoid loon is the ultimate in over compensation. Heh, and they say Superman is too powerful. Least he has an excuse, he has powers!

I haven't checked out the latest stuff. Frankly, it's hard to give DC mainline a chance when everytime I flip open one of their books it seems like somebody's intestines are beng splattered across the pages. Yes, I'm looking at you 52.


Then you have All Star B&R which is like everything wrong with superhero comics concentrated in a NyQuil cup. Miller needs to go back to Sin City and never set foot in Gotham or Metropolis ever again. When the only way you can justify Robin for yourself as a writer is to have Batman be a psycho who makes him eat rats, you have no business writing Batman. Go home.

As far as newer stuff I've been trying to get into the Matt Wagner stuff because I liked Trinity but something about the art is not clicking with me this time.

Hmmm... pre-Crisis Batman...

Seriously, From 1939 (Robin intro) to 1950's (pre Batwoman and Sci-Fi)... new look of the '60's... all faves of mine.

Oh, early '80's pre Crisis... Don Newton art.. ooooh