Superman Through the Ages! Forum

It occurs to me that if Krypton had a population that looked exactly like humans, then they would probably have lower primate analogues as well. (I'm looking at the  Kryp and Toon story as a legend--two people populating a planet wouldn't really work.) And it also seems likely that Jor-El would test his son's ship with something resembling a humanoid Kryptonian.

I'm bringing this up because Beppo is often considered to be one of the more unbelievable characters in the Superman comics, but is he really? Frankly, it seems like he makes more sense than Krypto, and I say this despite liking Krypto much more than Beppo.

So, what does everyone think? Does Beppo get a lot of undue criticism?

Because Kryptonians resemble humans, is it necessary that they evolved from something like primates? One of the coolest moments in the Wolfman/Perez NEW TEEN TITANS was General Immortus's De-Evolution Pit: a classic comics deathtrap, where all the Titans started transforming into apelike creatures...except the alien Starfire, who became something catlike.

It would be interesting to look at the fossil record for Krypton. One of my favorite elements of L. Sprague de Camp's "Viagens" books is that his Krishnans have a Neanderthal or Homo erectus sub-race that survived: as scattered forest-dwelling tailed people. I can TOTALLY see something like that being a "World of Krypton" backup.

Also, it's not 100% sure that Kryptonians evolved on their planet; even discounting Bates's story, in LEGION there's some amusing debate whether Krypton or Daxam is the colony.

(We've had this discussion before, but I'm inclined to think Daxam was the founding world and Krypton the colony, because what little we saw of Daxam in the "Mantis Morlo, Chemical Conqueror" story, Daxam was the more settled, sophisticated society, whereas Krypton has always been a "Wild West" planet with huge wilderness areas and occasionally hostile flora and fauna.)

As for Krypto being "identical" to earthly dogs...HA. Krypto, to me, always looked less like a dog, and more like a kind of albino rat monster.

I agree Krypto makes less sense than Beppo, and that writers should come up with some sort of explanation that doesn't involve dubious parallel evolution theories. I dislike the whole idea of parallel evolution; it's lazy and credibility stretching, and gives us nonsense like those approximately 12.5 billion STAR TREK episodes where they find a world identical to earth except the Roman empire never fell or there are only kids left, or 1920s gangsters, or Nazis.

One possible explanation for Krypto may be found in that Martin Pasko Flash/Superman race, which has something of a Mopee-ish quality: it had the revelation that Krypton and Earth were both settled by genetic material from the same pair of warring alien planets.

i think whats more dubious than the animals that are identical on krypton/earth is the krypton exclusive creatures like the thought creature... what it plans to attack appears on a big movie screen on it head... that should count as a disablity, kudos to them for not dying out!

to be honest, the whole parallel evolution idea doesnt both me in pre crisis DCU. this is a universe, which obvously works on rather different laws of physics and common sense (like supergirl watching supermans feats on earth though a telescope at argo city.. according to the laws of physics this doesnt work, but according to a childlike common sense, its obvous)

as for the idea of Kryp and Tonn fathering the kryptonian race... well its canonical to me! its just a such a nice idea.. i just use my fan speculation that after they had their first batch of kids, some outside influences (like say the guardians of the universe, who were trying to breed Kal-El as their successor werent they?) worked their lil hyper science-so-amazing-its-like-magic powers to create a race of at least 500 kryptonians (i think thats the minimum needed to repopulate a planet) from the original batches data

Science fiction has been creating worlds with humans for a long time.  It just makes it more identifiable for people.  Even the strange "creatures" are almost always bilaterally symmetrical, with two sets of limbs on either side of the spine (occasionally, like in the middle ages, a dragon will have another set of limbs as in wings).  Creating truly interesting worlds with radially symmetrical life or all kinds of colonial symbiotic types of things would be cool, but those things would have a harder time convincing Lois that they were really Clark Kent.

Generally, Krypto looked more like a dog than a lot of renderings of Ace the Bathound. ;D

Kryp and Tonn can be cannon and still be an allegory, like Romulus and Remus founding Rome.

Of course he makes sense, but that's not why I pick him as my namesake, I did it to rib Iron Age fans ;)

One thing that they got wrong is that Jor-El used a freaking dog and a puppy at that as a test pet for his baby boy.

On Earth-Prime and our Earth aka Real Life, NASA used a MONKEY to test the rocket before sending human astronauts into outer space.

Yet Beppo's origin is that he went into Kal-El's rocket and fell asleep and ending up on Earth, kind of dumb.

All they have to do is switch Krypto's and Beppo's origins and they would make perfect sense.

Real Life Space MONKEYS:

http://history.nasa.gov/animals.html

Strange but true!

The use of dogs and apes in the Kryptonian space program, a clear analog to the early Earth programs of the USSR and USA, is entirely understandable, needing very little suspension of disbelief.

The continuity evidence for Kryptonian evolution from "lower" primates, hidden away in the dark corners of DC comics publishing history, is harder to make a case for.  Unless of course we find a clear reference in a Silver Age tale, all we have to go on are Kryp & Ton, Maggin's reference to "2 lonely space explorers" in LSOK, and various Tales of Krypton, in which the local fauna does not really have clear analogs with Earth fauna.  The dog adopted by Nightwing and Flamebird is hardly like Krypto, and all other animals we see on Krypton, besides being (mostly) four-limbed, vary a great deal from Earth-type animals.

As to the fossil record, I can't think of any refs.  Lana trained as an archeologist in Kandor, but I think she only dealt with material culture, not fossils.

The fossil record does indicate the crystal birds that formed the Jewel Mountains. Again, bilaterally symmetrical and of a form like all earth birds.

Don't forget these guys:

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/King_Krypton

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Super-Ape

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Yango


Really, I have said many times before, that the old school writers didn't care if this stuff actually make any real sense in the grand scheme of things, only that it was fun for kids to read.

And as adults, it is fun for us to speculate on these matters.  Surely, we also are part of "the grand scheme of things!"  Maggin taught us that in Miracle Monday!

Yeah, I doubt Binder, Hamilton, Siegel et al had any idea this would be discussed and debated some forty plus years after publication.

And what's more fun than super dogs and chimps? A Super cat and a super horse. (Im not getting into Biron/Comet/ Bronco Bill's weirdness love "triangle" with Supergirl...) 

There's the Zelkot and Volkir stuff in DC Comics Presents #1/#2.

Would you be more inclined to believe in a God if your race clearly came in from somewhere else and hadn't clearly evolved with the other species on the planet? 

That doesn't seem to stop people on this Earth.

Anyway, it is really hard to explain why they look so much like humans and for that matter all those others races in the Legion do as well, storyline wise anyway.

In real life, the reason was of course is it was done for marketing reasons. Little boys and girls could relate more to aliens that looked like them rather that some odd looking creature. This is why only alien villains look like monsters. Of course they are some rather disturbing racial subtexts to this "those who look different than us are evil" mentality. This was the same reason why Japanese people in WW2 era comics look like vampires and grotesque sub-humans.

Martian Manhunter was the 1st one to change all of this.

Star Wars made it cool to have Aliens who look like Aliens who were good guys.

I don't know if they actually THOUGHT that or not, but they did put a lot of care into their work...usually. And E. Nelson Bridwell was certainly paying attention.

Incidentally, do the thought-hounds of Kandor remind anybody else of Otto Orion's thought-tracker hounds? Chameleon Boy disguised himself as one, to his chagrin. Both had antennae, both were telepathic, both were white. I suspect its the same creature.


Remember when MTV gave a Lifetime Achievement Award to Chewbacca?

"Ladies and gentlemen, the reason I got into show business in the first place...Chewbacca!"

Not exactly proof of evolution, but there was a stone age on Krypton:

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Super_Caveman

To get back on topic, the first animal in space was a dog -- the Russian mutt "Laika". Laika was lost.  Then the US sent up "Ham" - a chimp. (Were they fans of Doc Savage?)

I think HAM was an acronym for something, like 2001's HAL.  Very unimaginative scientists.

monkey in space gets comic

http://www.onipress.com/display.php?type=bk&id=252