Superman Through the Ages! Forum

I wonder if any one has any feedback on the following question: I remember reading a story where Superman comes up against a villian who claims to have visited Krypton just before it's destruction.

He found that Jor-El had made some blunders in his calculations and that Krypton wouldn't explode. However, he initiated some chain reaction that eventually led to Krypton's destruction.

Superman eventually defeats the villian, and turns him into stone. I'm sure Superman had the help of some one fropm the Phantom Zone, because this character breaks the statue, arguing that someone could find a way of restoring him.

A major part of the story was set in the Fortress of Solitude. It is possible that Batman may have been involved in the story? I probably read this story in the middle-to-late 1960's, possibly the early 1970's.

Any ideas on the name of the villian? Whenever I look up details on the detsruction of Krypton this story never seems to be mentioned, always going along with the standard view that Krypton was destroyed due to natural causes as predicted by Jor-El. Is this a forgotten story, or has it been decided that it was not to be part of the accepted Superman history?

I'm drawing a blank on that one....

This sounds like Black Zero, from Superman #205 (April 1968).  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Zero (Pre-Crisis Black Zero)

Sounds like one of Julian's Mopees to me!

And its an Otto Binder story... ;D

I added it to Supermanica.

Cool!

Checked up dto's suggestion and this seems to fit. For those interested the story is:
Black Zero appeared in Superman #205 (1968), in a story entitled "The Man Who Destroyed Krypton"

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Zero#Pre-Crisis_Black_Zero).

Following the links, there was a suggestion that Black Zero cancelled out the attempt by the Green Lantern Tomar Re's to prevent the destruction (as seen in Superman #257 (1972)), meaning the two sets of interference cancelled each other out, and Jor-El was right.

However, looking at http://www.supermansupersite.com/1972.html this doesn't seem to fit to well?

Thanks, Jimmy-Neutron

Its just one of those awkward stories that takes more explaining than its worth (for example the attempt to integrate it with Tomar Re).

You can read almost the entire story here:

http://www.thenostalgialeague.com/cr/forgotten-superman.html

Wow, what an incredible story, thanks for the link!  I don't think this tale needs to be explained, nor do I think it belittles Jor-El in any way.  All of Jor-El's observations were correct, and if Black Zero hadn't plotted to destroy Krypton, Jor-El would have observed that the planet was going to surivive.  But because Black Zero activated his device, Jor-El accurately observed it's effects, and thus sent Kal-El off in the rocket - saving him from the evil space pirate.

A great story --but I think it does kind of change our perception of the tragedy of Krypton.  Instead of a parable of the failure of science and human pride/folly it turns into a criminal conspiracy/epic space opera.

I liked the Jax-Ur team-up.  So much happened in thos Silver Age stories!  Even the sloppy ones.  And how sloppy could it be when all the other continuity aspects were in place.  Maybe sloppy is too harsh ..it's just a retcon that wasn't needed.  You can imagine Superman's writers (or maybe it was a Swan cover idea, fan submission of Weisinger dream) had the Superman mythos so deeply ingrained on their brains, struggling to come up with a new variation, that occasionally they went over old ground, poking and prodding, throwing things at the wall to see what stuck, and sometimes they were stuck with a deadline or a family crisis and just hacked it out in their sleep!  The gilding of the great art and DC production values could make even the most ill-considered writing look like a professional job!

I appreciated the link, too.. what a hokey ending "Okay, Superman... send me back into the Phantom Zone!"

Yeah, Jax-Ur... I would have taken off into space and found my own planet

Felt dismissing the story was too harsh (OK, there were some problems like Superman hearing Black Zero's two hearts only once, but many stories have relatively minor errors).

As far as the connection with Tomar-Re is concerned, the following link gives the story:
http://superman.nu/tales2/greatestGL/
In this story "The Greatest Green Lantern of All", Tomar-Re's mission to save Krypton is thwarted by an accident, and he only manages to reach Krypton in time to see it explode.

I can't see that this is a problem with Black Zero's relevation? Tomar-Re and Black Zero don't meet.

The Wikipedia link qoutes Bridwell's suggestion that what Black Zero had noticed was Tomar-Re's attempts to prevent the destruction, and that the two sets of interference somehow cancel each other out, seems rather contrived in order to try and preserve the accepted story-line of Jor-El prediction of the destruction of Krypton?

[Admittedly, I couldnt find any link developing Bridwell's argument.]

Another site that people might find useful is:
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/database/index.php

Some stories are placed on the site in their entirety.

Cheers, Jimmy-Neutron

Bridwell was a lovable genius.

Seems a bit like Mopee from the flash. That being said this is how I think comicbook continuity should be handled. It can be changed at any time but if no one liked it then it really doesn't count.  Its like a history book. Some historians would say that Krypton blew up by natural forces but a few may say its Black Zero.

If accepted, the Black Zero story doesn't seem to offer any insurmountable contradictions to the previously accepted continuity, it just adds to something that wasn't known at the time.

I could imagine if a reader had pointed out the problem of Superman hearing two heart beats, then being unable to, that the Editor would suggest that Black Zero realised this and turned off on of his hearts (something that has happened in the British sci fi series, Dr Who, where Romana was able to turn off both of her hearts) to try and fool Superman? I must admit, I missed the Fortess of Solitude continuity error. It is a strange error but suggest that should be treated just like that, i.e. an error.

The only time a later story should be rejected over previously accepted story lines if accepting it leads to such arkward explantions (time travel, cloning, ....) that it ain't worth it.

Ultimtately I'm not sure who decides on the acceptance or otherwise of a story.

Well, nobody does, Jimmy, but my money's on posterity. Fact is that everyone prefers to think of the destruction of Krypton as a natural disaster rather than some rather bizarre interplanetary contract hit. It makes more sense in terms of story: if Krypton were wilfully destroyed, Superman would perforce have to be some sort of avenger, but that's not what the character is about.

I guess if Marvel acquired the rights to Superman and did an Ultimate Superman title, they'd make it so that some nasty communist, or worse, a Frenchman, destroyed Krypton, so that Kal-El could track him down and get medieval on him with his heat vision. Let's be thankful for what we've got.

To me, its just an example that doesn't destroy continuity, it just forces more in than is good - it diminishes an earlier story (rather than saying it wasn't true).

If there was one thing I didn't like about the times was that too much was being crammed into the past, a rush for "untold stories" that got a little tedious.  There was once a Superbaby story that told of criminals who adopted baby Kal before the Kents had time to get back to the orphanage.  The criminals planned to substitute Superbaby for a look-alike millionaire's child that they wanted to hold for ransom. Even though I was just a kid, I thought it was dumb to play an adventure into every undocumented second of a baby's life.

There's a difference between making the mythos deeper by exploring Krypton in more depth and plotting new fantastic details behind every story that was told before, especially when the older stories were good before.

I'd tend to agree.  Of course, the DC editors perceived just such an attitude (cynicism about retcons/convoluted continuity) among their readers, leading to Crisis.

Didn't Kirby create the Black Zero's ultimate nemesis, the White Zero?

It beats the name White One, I suppose.