Superman Through the Ages! Forum

A few predictions of mine on what would have happened:

1) Expect Billy Batson to have aged past ten, possibly into his teen years. This is what happened to Dick Grayson and other characters. Hey, it's the sixties! Teens were the in-thing, between Rick Jones and the Legion of Super-Heroes.

2) As times go by, look for a reduction in the cartoonishness of the art. Of all the artists that were working outside of DC and Marvel at the time, the ones that jump to mind right away are Wally Wood and Steve Ditko, and neither of them draw like C.C. Beck. In fact, C.C. Beck would be treated much less like Marvel's Curt Swan, much more like Joe Shuster: an early, rough and cartoony version of the character instead of being the "definitive" Red Cheese.

This is actually a very interesting question, I think. Certainly Captain Marvel would have been incorporated into DC at some point. It's absurd to think of Fawcett surviving, when Tower and Charleston didn't.


    It's not absurd to think of Fawcett surviving.  There were two main reasons for Fawcett discontinuing its comics line.  One was the long-running DC lawsuit.  The other was the fact that comics sales were dropping.  DC's intent (in the lawsuit) was to eliminate the Marvel Family.  Fawcett stopped publishing the Marvel Family titles as part of an out-of-court settlement with DC.  Fawcett wanted to eliminate the legal fees that fighting the lawsuit was costing them.  You can lose a lawsuit without losing in court.  Without the Marvel Family titles Fawcett's line had no real moneymakers.  Also it's unfair to compare Fawcett with Tower & Charlton.  Fawcett was a major publisher.  Tower & Charlton were not.




A few predictions of mine on what would have happened:

1) Expect Billy Batson to have aged past ten, possibly into his teen years. This is what happened to Dick Grayson and other characters. Hey, it's the sixties! Teens were the in-thing, between Rick Jones and the Legion of Super-Heroes.

2) As times go by, look for a reduction in the cartoonishness of the art. Of all the artists that were working outside of DC and Marvel at the time, the ones that jump to mind right away are Wally Wood and Steve Ditko, and neither of them draw like C.C. Beck. In fact, C.C. Beck would be treated much less like Marvel's Curt Swan, much more like Joe Shuster: an early, rough and cartoony version of the character instead of being the "definitive" Red Cheese.

3) Depending on how long Captain Marvel lasts...look for Neal Adams covers!

4) If Otto Binder was still writing it, expect it to have jumped the shark in a phenomenal way. Ever read any Otto Binder story after 1961? They're beyond sad. Consider Binder's Insect Queen/Oggar-Kan Superboy/Legion story, which (I'm not kidding here) is the story that followed up the Sun-Eater and the death of Ferro Lad.

Kurt Busiek followed up MARVELS with ASTRO CITY. What chased down the greatest Legion story of all time? A gimmick story about Lana turning into Insect Queen "forever" (yet, I'm betting she was normal by the end of the story) and, in true Mary Sue fashoin, saving the universe and making all the Legionnaires LOVE her.

I wonder what Otto Binder's journal entry that day would look like. I'm sure it would be hilarious schadenfreude:


Dear Diary,

Some days, you can just TASTE the oil on the barrel of the gun you're going to put in your mouth.

Curt Swan laughed right in my face today. "Nice script there, Otto," he said. "What, did you get it from a wormhole leading to 1952? I think it's missing something, though. Hey, how about a few magical elves looking for lost cookies?" I'm going to strangle that Swedish jackass if its the last thing I ever do.

The fan mail's already come in for that punk kid Shooter's Legion stories. Me, I think it's not bad for the sort of thing a thirteen year old would come up with, but a mature professional like me would do it with more panache. Where's the ending where Ferro Lad comes back on the last pageand tells his friends he actually only pretended to die to teach the Legionnaires a lesson about friendship? Where's the Red Kryptonite?

The mental defectives that buy ADVENTURE lap it up, though. Validus, Persuader, Karate Kid, Princess Projectra? In ten years, nobody'll remember their names. Now the Goatman and Crocodile Men from Punkus C.C. Beck and I did? Now there's classic material.

This story about Lana Lang transforming into stuff is going to blow that punk out of the water. I'm Otto Frickin-Binder! I refuse to be outdone by a thirteen year old kid.

- O.B.

       Who do you hate more Otto Binder, Grant Morrison, or Jerry Siegel?

A bit off topic, but I wonder how the Binder family feels about the surviving Seigel clan's claim of ownership over an overall property that includes several of Otto's creations?

I am not as swift to dismiss the possibility of a Captain Marvel update as others are.

The reason is that Captain Marvel was denied something that Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman all received: continuous publication.

Superman as a character changed from the 1940s to the 1970s and was still demonstratably Superman. I think it would be unreasonable to assume that Captain Marvel would still be fighting Crocodile Men from Punkus and the earth coming to life and throwing all humans, once we get into the more science fiction and adventure elements of the 1960s, a period with very different storytelling and emphasis. Note how different the trolls and paint-faced robots of the Monster Society of Evil are from the time travelling tyrants of the Jerry Siegel Legion of Super-Villains. Note how different late 1950s-early sixties space foe Brainiac is from Marvel's space enemy, the Goatman.

Cap on the other hand, suffers from permanent arrested development. When we think of Captain Marvel, we think of 1940s-1950s Cap with Otto Binder. Now, try to imagine a world where Batman was canceled in 1962, when we had the Bat-Family of Batwoman, Bat-Girl, Ace the Bat-Hound, and so forth, and without Len Wein and Englehart and others to give us their take, which led to Batman and his world being viewed as radically different.

Obviously, this comparison is inexact as Batman and Captain Marvel are different in many ways. However, all this said, I cannot blame nor hold it against any creators for not being 100% in tune with the Lieutenant Marvels and Mr. Tawny, or with the very, very 1950s vibe of the entire series.

Granted, Captain Marvel has had a few series here and there, but even so, he has something that Superman has never had to contend with: the perception that his 1940s-1950s take as his "definitive" one.

Now, note this is an entirely different question than saying, "Will Judd Winnick deliver on Captain Marvel," as I have never read anything by Winnick I really like. I'm just talking about the IDEA here.

Interesting. What's the status of this?

Ordinarily I'd say some sarcastic comment here, something like "What, you think the Siegels will just walk away and leave a crown jewel like Krypto the Super-Dog?"

But then I remember that kids show, which is making beaucoup bucks. Who wouldn't want to sicc their lawyers to get a piece of that action?

I've said this before, but Supergirl is such an obvious idea to do that NO ONE deserves credit for "creating" her.

I wonder what Otto Binder's journal entry that day would look like. I'm sure it would be hilarious schadenfreude: