Superman Through the Ages! Forum

How about a few "What if . . . ?" discussions?

(1) What if Robin had been a woman? Imagine young Dora Grayson's husband (and trapeze partner) is murdered by Boss Zucco. The Batman brings the gangster to justice, but in the process gains a female partner and enduring love interest. Would this Dynamic Duo work? Would this make Dr. Wertham happier? Would the concept be copied as much as the "boy sidekick" concept was actually copied? (Sandy, Bucky, Speedy, Toro, Buddy, Pinky -- they're all gonna be girls!)

Free Karma point for the first poster who guesses why I chose the name "Dora". It's goofy, but it's worth Karma!  ::)

(2) What if Schwartz/Kanigher/Infantino had re-introduced Jay Garrick as the Flash in 1956, instead of creating Barry Allen? Imagine a story where Jay returns to action, "after a few months of inactivity". Imagine that he leaves his old costume in mothballs, and dons the "Barry Allen" version. Thus, he looks just like the Silver Age Flash we are all familiar with (at least in costume), but he has the history of the Golden Ager. Would this work? Would other Golden Agers follow suit (same characters, new costumes)? Would the JSA re-form with new members Aquaman, J'Onn J'Onzz, and Green Arrow added to the ranks?

(3) Assuming number (2) did not happen, what if Schwartz/Fox did not create Earth-Two and revive the Golden Agers. Imagine they continued to introduce new Silver Age versions of Golden Age heroes. What would 1960s versions of Starman, Hourman, Black Canary, and others look like?

Dora Grayson? Taking a wild guess here, but does she have a portrait of herself in her attic?

Permanuses answer is cleverer, but my thought was Dick and Dora like Nick and Nora Charles

jamespup is the winner of one shiny new Karma point. Please use responsibly. No warranty expressed or implied. Before using, ask your health care professional if Karma is right for you.

I shall indeed use it wisely.

Think I'll contact my Mom's cousin Dora, haven't spoken to her since my Mom passed away

That'd be a good thing

It's just as well: I'd only have spent my Karma point on booze and loose women.

Oh?  Do we have any here?  Had i known, I would have spent differently

(1) I haven't read Seduction of the Innocent, but I'm guessing that Werthem would not have approved of Dora and Bruce living together without benefit of marriage. If they got hitched, no problem. As for female sidekicks becoming the norm, that's unlikely, given that pre-teen boys made up the vast majority of the readership back then. They didn't like mushy romantic stuff much. It might've brought in more girl readers, though.

(2) Having Jay Garrick, Alan Scott et al resume their previous roles probably would've worked out fine, if the editors had chosen to go that way. Readers of the late '50s and early '60s were largely unaware of the Justice Society heroes, so the old Flash and Green Lantern would've seemed like new characters to them. Eventually, the stories from WW II would've likely been forgotten or retconned away. These characters, like SA Superman and Batman, could not grow perceptibly older.

(3) Assuming that the JSA heroes instead got Silver Age counterparts, they would probably have had the same powers but with new origins, secret identities, and costumes. And fewer capes. Capes were not as prevalent in the Silver Age.

Wertman was a man on a mission - and what a poor mission it was.  Bruce and Dora would have become infinitely worse than Bruce and Dick.  Underage girl and older man?  Considering the public uproar on Jerry Lee Lewis, well - it would have been ugly and I wonder if comics would be here today.


If the bent went towards simply bringing back the heroes out of mothballs - then all the Golden Agers plus new guys would likely have developed - but with more a Sci-Fi bent.  I don't think it would have worked as well as it did in reality.  It's not so much the fans - but the creators.  Would Captain America have worked so well, or Namor for that matter - if Kirby/Lee hadn't given them new spins?  I think there'd be a bit of a rush of old creators on the older heroes and they would have gone stale pretty quick.  As for the League - didn't that take off after the new heroes were an established success?


Well, they did update the older heroes to a marked degree.  Dr. Mid-Nite got the "Super Tuber?!?"  Jay Garrick got vibration powers.  The lean on costumes during that time was more typically towards the form fitting uniforms of pilots and such than circus performers.  That being said, costume creating is almost anything goes - but we'd probably see a lot less of trunks over tights.

:o Whoa! Look again, guys! I clearly said that Dora was of marrying age. After all, I said her husband was murdered. And I certainly didn't mean to suggest that Bruce and Dora would co-habitate out-of-wedlock.
Hmmm. I agree that few readers would have remembered Jay in 1956. Yet Barry's origin references Jay (albeit as a fictional character). Schwartz et al could have easily ignored Jay, and introduced Barry as a totally new character without any connection to the Golden Age. That's what they did with GL, the Atom, and Hawkman (except for the Carter Hall identity). Maybe they realized that most readers hadn't heard of the originals.
The successful Silver Age "updates" (the Flash, GL, the Atom, and Hawkman) did have more sci-fi in them. So it might have been possible for DC to revive the originals--with updates: Alan recruited by the Guardians? Al invents size-and-weight controls? Carter and Sheira discover they are aliens from Thanagar? New costumes all around? It's interesting to imagine, but all in all, it was probably easier to create new characters.
It's somewhat disappointing that Schwartz and company stopped "updating" the Golden Agers once the JSA returned to action. We might have had Earth-One versions of Hourman, Black Canary, Starman, even Red Tornado (a woman, like the original, but serious) in the Justice League. And you're probably right about the capes, even though I like them.
I think you mean cyrotuber. "Super Tuber" sounds like a genetically enhanced potato ;D. But that's not much sillier than cyrotuber. Or Sandman's gun that could manufacture concrete and glass.

Yeah, I read that and thought of the psychedelic potato from that Moore Swamp Thing story.