Superman Through the Ages! Forum

We all know that for at least the past forty years marvel and dc have been the dominating houses of the comic book industry.  But in the past 10 years new houses have developed like image darkhorse.  But why haven't their names become as big or their characters as recognized?  After all "Mighty" Marvel started out much the same in the 1960's, they even had to have dc as their distributor.  I'll tell you why its because the new houses haven't made any bloody innovations.  Look at nearly every third party superhero comic book.  They all range from pastiches to blatant ripoffs of superman.  I mean really.  Why haven't they tried anything new? Lets look at an example.  The dark horse character Invincible, he seems original enough.  He's supposed to be the son of a superhero.  Okay lets take a look at his personality, ok he seems to fit into the spiderman teenager mold.  That's always fun.  But now his powers: superstrength, superspeed, ability to fly, etc.  Look at any new superhero they are all made to be superman.  There have been precious few new characters like spawn, hellboy and dynamo 5.  The reason marvel prospered was because they moved away from the superman mold.  With new character who didn't wear capes and had lower power levels.  Why are there not many new unique superheros?  Is it because of the public's association of the term with a musclebound adonis who wears a cape and has letters on his chest?  Or is it because there are no new ideas left, certainly the well cannot run dry so fast.

Invincible is an image comic. But, anyway, the readership just isn't there like it was in the 1960's, it would be next to impossible for the next Superman to be created in this climate. Most kids do not read comic books anymore. So unless the new character gets a hot TV show and a hot Video Game and a Hit Movie, then no one will know they even exist. Well,  besides the typical middle age comic book reader.

But besides that, other than the characters I mentioned none of the new companies have been making original ideas.  Look at spawn he was created in the 90's.  He was at least original and the stories were solid.  Now he's got 2 spin off series, a movie, and a video game.  The same with Hellboy.  But other than them there are no new ideas.

I think there will always be innovation in sci-fi and fantasy comics, of which superhero stories are a subgenre.  That said, there are many reasons for the lack of new characters or "power" types, especially in Marvel and DC.  Copyright and creator rights are a big issue.  Look at the new Zuda --basically an idea harvesting scam-- and DC's inability to give up trademark and publishing rights to creators (Watchmen?).  Why create something unique and powerful for something like DC?  Why not go with a real publisher or self-publish?

The lack of innovation seems generational as well.  Many of today's creators are content to play in the toybox created by giants like Siegel and Shuster, Kirby, Ditko, Lee, etc.  As well, the success of the iconic characters created by these gents leads to alot of homages, etc.  Writers also recognize that it is a rare character who is made more interesting by the exact nature of his superpowers/abilities and that it is character and plot that really drive stories and make them memorable.

On the whole, though, I've seen tons of characters created over the last 20-30 years with a bewildering array of weird abilities and origins.  This didn't make them bestsellers.  And how original are Spawn (Dr.Strange meets the Spectre meets The Demon) or Hellboy (The Demon), really?

The world of manga has tons of superpowered characters who are superstars and kept in print and translated to various media for decades.

 I remember when Image first came out and I didn't think there was anything original about any of it. Spawn just looked like the hideous love child of Spider-Man and Batman. Savage Dragon was the eighties Hulk with a fin on his head. Youngblood (anything with Rob Liefield gets an automatic "ugh!"), Wildcats, etc. were just variatons on the X-Men. I couldn't understand what all the big deal was. It's was like they took the whole Marvel line and gave them new names. 

I would agree that Image and Dark Horse didn't do anything innovative.  That's why they never became as Big as Marvel and DC.

"innovative" is just a means to an end, namely "entertaiment".  Invincible and The Moth (to cite examples of Image and Dark Horse stuff I have right in front of me) aren't innovative as far as "powers" (unless "better half of a formerly siamese twin" counts as a power), but they're both fun to read and look at.

A lot of the fun and big time adventure is is missing from DC and Marvel can be found elsewhere. The best comics today are not being made by Marvel and DC, that's for sure.

I'd say that it depends on what you read comics for. Outside of a couple of licensed properties and PAD's Fallen Angel, I read comics for the superhero genre, primarily Superman.

And with the current teams on the books, imo, the Super-titles haven't been this good since the end of the Bronze Age.

There are lot of good superheroes books from DC and Marvel today. On the top of the list there are All Star Superman, by Grant Morrison, and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, by Sean McKeever. Both are out of continuity comics that explore the iconic nature of te characters, in a brighter tone that don´t require years of fanboy knowledge. That´s why they are so successful with young readers and non-comics shop guys.

On the ohter hand, even with good writers like Kurt Busiek (Superman) and Bryan K. Vaughan (Runaways), the Marvel and DC Universes are trapped in multiple crossovers like the Skull thing (Bendis) and Countdown (Dini). Of course, Mark Waid´s The Brave and The Bold is the exception to the rule. Best in-continuity book in years! If Morrison´s Final Crisis is really FINAL, with ideas from his old Hypercrisis project and the sentient DC Universe, Dan Didio stops his madness and the good writers can concentrate on good stories.