Superman Through the Ages! Forum

A while back I said that only one man could save Superman now: KURT BUSIEK!

I tell you, I love being right.  ;D

I’ve got to hand it to the guy, he is, far and away the best supercomics writer of his generation, and he’s doing it again with his Superman. I've been saying for a while I need to share my observations on this.


SUPERMAN 654:

Carlos Pacheco, I have a big, fat man-crush on you. Look at his Lois waking up in a t-shirt. I never thought anybody but Nick Cardy could make Lois sexy, but…

This is why Busiek has gotten me to like the Super-Marriage: unlike the chaste, hand-holding relationships of other heroes, Lois and Superman have real passion. The scene at the end where they fly together? Romantic, but a real kind of romantic that long-married couples have.

Busiek’s done something here I don’t think anybody’s thought to do before: bring in the Science Police’s anticedents to mainstream DC. Here, they’re a recently created tech-squad to handle menaces.

And do I detect a Cary Bates reference? “Did you get every bit of him?” “Yep. Every ERG.” Hehehehe.

Carlos Pacheco’s Perry White looks wonderful; craggy, cigar-chomping, dignified.

I love Kurt Busiek’s interaction with spunky, cool Jimmy Olsen in this issue. Jimmy is Clark Kent’s buddy and gives him a ribbing here.

This is by far the greatest use of Superman’s superhearing in some time – he traces a guy by just the slightly irregular, distinctive sound of his heartbeat.

If I have a critique of this issue, it is that the fight with the Manheim monster was boring. Superman trading punches, melting the ground…dull stuff. If Cary Bates was writing this, he would have had Superman do something crazy like fly around and drain the oxygen from Manheim’s lungs.


SUPERMAN 655:

I love the idea of Superman hiding a million books inside each microdot and using his micro-vision to read it – an excellent use of an underrated power and plays up Superman’s intelligence.

I love they kept the Lex dead sequoia-ring desk from Morrison’s Earth-2; very visually interesting idea. The Lana running LexCorp – and being divorced from Pete Ross, is the most interesting use of the character in some time because she’s given something to do. The possibility of her and Clark starting up a romance again is both scandalous and exciting. This is the sort of long-term story that made reading Busiek’s AVENGERS so exciting.

The mystery of this bizarre creature – and its possible connection to Arion – is exciting.

I love how this issue shows up the Johns-haters as the lazy, hypocritical liars they are: here you have Arion Lord of Atlantis clearly post-Coitus with not one, but two women, and a giant one-page spread of dead Russian troops killed in the wake of a monster, which looks like a picture from World War I.



SUPERMAN 656:

Great to see Lana’s dad as an archeologist/explorer again. That’s really dipping into the Super-Mythos pot right there.

As a product of the Soviet regime (my Mother emigrated from Estonia) it was really interesting a choice to set the battle with the creature around the trappings of the Soviet Republic: the dark colors, oppressive old buildings, statues…Pacheco brings it all to life.

Superman speaks Serbian. That’s a great detail.

The does-she-or-doesn’t-she-know story with Llewelyn is compelling, as is the story where she makes a dramatic revalation. I’ll say this: Busiek knows how to plot.

I love the revalation that the monster was experimented on for decades. Suddenly it stops being a “monster” and starts being a person – sympathetic. Suddenly the battle becomes a tragedy, and I feel a little ashamed at cheering on to have Superman break the thing’s neck.

The way Superman finally beats the monster is great (he uses his head and super-powers together), but it would have been better if he had discovered it himself instead of being told so by a scientist-friend.

What an awesome last panel! And a great, unexpected cliffhanger with Arion. I wondered when he was going to show up…

I am almost intrigued enough to actually look at an issue next time I'm in a comic shop....

(I liked parts of Pacheco in Avengers Forever)

Busiek's run is a huge dissapointment fo the most part.

I was praying for a change of the post modern sueprjock portrayal back to the Authentic Superman but really, this is just a continuation of the Byrne Era's 'Peter Parker, Simperman' portrayal for the most part.

SUPERMAN 657 was wonderful - Carlos Pacheco's incredible vision of a Metropolis broken in half was real spectacle, not to mention the creepy imagery of the Parasite who had drained Superman speaking with Big Blue's voice and asking Lois to call him "Clark."

My favorite detail was the characterization of Luthor. Here, he was heroic - when that Arab Fu Manchu guy assembled the world's villains to attack together (much like Kang did in "Kang Dynasty") Luthor was actually protecting Metropolis.

Arion is my favorite DC wizard. He's got so much arrogant personality to burn.

What I like about Busiek's DC work, both this story and his JUSTICE LEAGUE, is that he takes his time to develop the worlds he's creating. He took his time to build up the threat of the Void Hound in JLA, and here with this possible future, he spent a whole issue to show what a tremendous menace the Assassin Master is, and the consequences of failure.

Now THIS is the sort of Superman story I was expecting when I heard Busiek was going to be writing the character - a massive, high-stakes battle against an over the top superfoe where even Superman (at first glance) appears to be the underdog. You feel real fear for the character and wonder how he will be victorious. It's very exciting. When I read in an interview that Busiek originally intended this story to be in his JLA (before some witless manatee at DC removed him from that book), I was not in the least bit surprised.

Never before did I notice, though, that to write a giant, high-stakes Superman story you have to plot it very similarly to a JLA or Legion battle: and since...well, to be as honest as possible here...Superman is the JLA in one man and seldom needs the other guys. If you can make a menace that challenges Superman, you pretty much have made a menace that challenges the JLA.

Subjekt 13 was great and all, but this is the story arc where Busiek is saying "okay, I'm through dicking around here. Let's get serious."

What I especially like so far about Busiek's SUPERMAN is that, apart from his story arc with Johns, he is for the most part using NEW villains: Subjekt 13 and that Fu Manchu-style Arab guy that sort of looks like Steve Gerber's Presence. What a great look he has.

Subjekt 13 is a tragic, reverse Superman story. I think considerably less of the Jerry Siegel Super-Menace story than others do, but THIS is Super-Menace done properly and tragically.

What I think is the most depressing detail about the Subjekt 13 story is that he came to earth with his parents...including his pregnant mother. Both were killed, and thereafter at no point in his life was he ever shown love.

Busiek and Pacheco created a whole world through flashbacks and history, and yet managed to be totally unique. What MORE do you want from a good-sized 23 page comic?

Best Superman story of the past seven years.


In a more just world, THIS would be the Superman book everybody would be reading.

It's great to read Busiek's Superman and wash out from one's mouth the bitter taste of ASS.

And I love Pacheco too. I was amazed by the sea-monster riding German troops in ARROWSMITH.


If you can show me one occasion of Kurt Busiek's Superman "simping" or angsting...I will send you a YouTube video of me EATING my collection of Astro City issues with ketchup and salt.

I don't really see any evidence of that. Yes, poor Clark Kent couldn't buy a break with Perry White, but Pete Parker got that from Superman, not the other way around. All the hard-luck stuff is concentrated on Clark Kent where it belongs.

"Superjock?" Yeeesh. Yes, I too was disappointed a scientist had to tell him how to beat Subjekt 13, but there are many, many other occasions Superman demonstrated not only intelligence but SUPERINTELLIGENCE. One issue had him using microscopic vision to read a microbiology journal he placed inside a single punctuation mark. He found Manheim with knowledge of medicine, and disabled Neutron with science.

And if I had a dollar for every time Busiek's Superman used Reed-Richards style fifty buck words, I could probably buy the Arion/Assassin Master story in TPB for all the forum regulars!

If anything, I don't think Superman is responding emotionally ENOUGH for my tastes. The battle with Subjekt 13, for instance, should have been more emotionally difficult for Superman than it was shown to be.

Fixed.

I enjoy Busiek's work, but I think he meanders a bit.  Subjekt-17 (not 13) should've been a two-part story, not a three-parter, IMO.  I know there's a need to reintroduce a DC universe and he went into "filler mode" trying to compensate for other creative teams, but his arcs feel a little drawn out.   

My favorite new Busiek villain, hands down, is the Auctioneer.

Julian, are you going to keep going with the Superman reviews in this thread?  If so, I look forward to reading them.

The most recent issue I have is #665, "The SECRET ORIGIN of Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen!" - quite a bit down the road from the issue numbers you mention here.  It's a stand-alone story and a great read.  It's a flashback to how Jimmy joined the Planet and became Superman's pal so it takes place before Lois was in on Clark/Superman's secret ID shtick.  I really like a small touch that Kurt threw in:  Clark did his typical feigning some problem so he could make a quick get-away to switch to Superman, and Lois immediately knew that there must be a story brewing someplace so she takes off after him to get it.  First time I've ever seen that.

What makes-or-breaks a Superman story for me is how Superman is portrayed.  In all of Kurt's stories to date, Superman has been spot-on.  No sign at all of any of the Byrne/Jurgens mistakes.  This Superman is the real deal.  Anything else is quibbling over minutiae.

My bad, 17. But actually the fight with Subjekt 17 DID take two issues 655-656.

I agree there were a couple things that could have been taken out - the flashback to young Clark Kent using his powers secretly to save Llwelyn from a space-trilobite or something was interesting, but ought to have been a "DVD extra" or "Special Feature." We already established that Llwelyn suspected Clark.

Though let's look at everything that was going on in the two Subjekt 17 issues apart from the main story:

Lana Lang taking control of LexCorp, and the tantalyzing possibility she and Superman might start their relationship up again;

Arion, Lord of Atlantis observing Superman from the 17th Century and realizing he needs help;

The does-she-or-doesn't-she subplot about Llwelyn and Superman's identity.

All that, plus the main investigative story about Subjekt 17. Is there too little going on in those two issues? Well, you be the judge.

I like that they took a whole issue to show how terrible and grandiose Arab Fu Manchu is. One of Busiek's strengths is worldbuilding. I loved his story set on the Crime Syndicate Earth during his JLA run. It was much better executed than the previous story arc that introduced the world.

Do what I do: take the first two issues of Busiek's "Syndicate Rules" ALONE, and compare it to all four issues of Morrison's "Earth-2," and make a list of everything you know about Anti-Earth. The list will be twice as long for Busiek's first two issues than Morrison's whole arc.

The introduction of the favor principle for instance...you understand how a society like that of Syndicate-Earth would work. And the connection to Qward that Busiek explored was ignored by others.


Yes I am, thanks. I'd like to count down to the latest ish and then take them month by month. I don't think I've ever been this excited about a monthly Superman book.


One thing about Busiek's Superman I've noticed is that he has a sort of swagger, a self-confidence. I'd call it "overconfidence," but really, considering Superman's abilities his confidence might just be proportional!

The more I think about it, the more it seems Len Wein may be right about the humble Clark Kent being the truer identity. There is something about Superman's behavior that comes off as the natural exhilaration of flight and infinite power: he's relentless and an easily angered force of nature. He isn't reckless, though - Superman excels in so many fields (mental, physical, etc.) and his enemies can only effectively challenge him in one. So even if it seems he's the underdog, he never really is because he's got something up his sleeve.

The Neutron fight in 654 brought this out well. He only slacked up his physical attack because he had a trump card: the nearby science police.

You're right.  It just felt "long", somehow.  At the end, it was like "here's Arion" and the entire Subjekt-17 stuff gets thrown out and it wasn't like tons of stuff happened along that main story line.

Agreed.  Let me be clear...  I think Busiek is a fine Superman writer, and I greatly enjoy his work.  I'm picking some nits that I never even got close to picking with most other Superman writers, because the starting point in terms of plot and character was so obviously crap. 

Batman would disagree.  He doesn't do obvious things that would shore up his weaknesses, except as one-offs.  Any reason that a well characterized  Superman doesn't have anti-red sun tan lotion on him along with other self made and|or Krypto-Kandorian technology, or wield a GL ring, Mother Box, etc.?  He doesn't travel to the past (or use a time-viewer) and observe how a happier Lex Luthor whipped up anti-kryptonite serum because it hadn't occured to him? 

kurts superman has more hits than misses.
He's supersmart but then again he had to go to Starlabs to get  Kryptonite radiation blocker.
He's confident but he still went home to complain to his parents.

oh well.

oh ya,
He's superpowerful again...and yet cant go faster than the speed of light??? LAME!

In Action #854, he appoints Jimmy as Krypto's keeper.

This is just a cool idea... no ifs, ands, or buts!

SUPERMAN 658:

WOW. It’s very rare that an opening splash page blows me away, but that’s Carlos Pacheco for you. The scene of future Wonder Woman was incredible. What I like most is the attention to detail. And it’s interesting to note Wonder Woman at this future point is wearing the starry “goddess garb” of Donna Troy. Actually, I like this look much better than I like her traditional outfit; she’s one of the “famous” heroes whose outfit I have never liked.

God, I love Busiek’s characterization of Luthor. Here he is building green armor and gadgets like the “seismax” for Jimmy and the rest, and telling Lois ever-so-arrogantly that “she’s almost as good as I am.” Of all the people that have characterized Luthor, Busiek’s arrogant, semi-heroic, territorial supergenius is one of my favorites. He’s more like a particularly dislikable hero than villain. The scene where he identifies himself as the only man that could battle Khyber, he was just as magnificent as Superman himself…amazing to find oneself rooting for Luthor.

Luthor’s much more magnetic and charismatic, more fascinating as an armor-wearing semi-hero. It’s somehow fitting that even in this alternate universe, he died giving food to people…who ultimately was buried right next to Superman.

Also, note the admiration that Jimmy Olsen has for Lois Lane.

I love Busiek’s description of the Ghostwolves, partially cybernetic, high-tech Arabian assassins. A quality of a good villain is how distinctive their henchmen are, like Doom’s Doombots or the Leader’s robots that can merge into a super-robot.

Luthor himself has some pretty good minions of his own: check out his protoplasmic ooze warriors, and his robot dogs. Though shouldn’t they be named “Bottweilers?” And is it my imagination, or do his Petrocommandos look like gray versions of the Kryptonite Beasts?

Can anyone else but me identify the red-haired person in the armor suit and turtleneck in the panel right above Jimmy Olsen?

I like the immortal guy, Sirrocco, that heals because of the sun quite a bit, and not just because of his cool golden sun-spear. A hero with a link to the villain, who experiences his immense crimes, who always appears to fight him? It’s a novel way to account for why a hero can be so fixated on stopping him. Though I get a feeling, good as he is, that he was created to deflect charges of prejudice. This is actually something of a tradition in movies: give the hero a sidekick that’s the same ethnicity as the villains.


SUPERMAN 659:

If Busiek is going to have a co-plotter (what that means exactly, I don’t know) it’s good to know it’s Fabian Niceza. I loved his stuff since he did PSI FORCE for the New Universe. His NEW WARRIORS was the most consistently entertaining team book since the Wolfman/Peréz Titans.

Though it doesn’t get off to a good start: Superman saving a random person by just brute-force stopping a car. Even Superman himself admits this wasn’t clever. When Cary Bates or Len Wein had Superman perform superfeats against generic gangsters, it was interesting because the WAY he did it was so clever. For instance, he once stopped gangsters with Kryptonite by not going through the door as they expected, but LIFTING THE ENTIRE BUILDING UP and shaking them out. It’s only entertaining to see Superman do a “generic” superfeat like saving a crashing plane, if he does it in an interesting way: like for instance, easing it down with Superbreath as he did in one Bates story.

I like that Superman is shown here as being an understated, real, unassuming person that doesn’t pose. There’s a definite Christopher Reeves vibe to the Busiek/Niceza characterization.

Now THIS I like: the old lady’s scrap-book establishes the Challengers of the Unknown, at this point in time at DC comics, are contemporaries of Superman. As much as I like those guys, the idea they’d come before Superman is a truly strange idea.

Permanus, you said you wanted good excuses for why Clark had to change to Superman? Well, here’s your answer. Clark Kent has to go so often, the other people in the Planet assume he has prostate problems.

So far, this story about a bad neighborhood needing help and finding it in some crazy lady is interesting, but it doesn’t feel like SUPERMAN. It’s like they accidentally reprinted a comic from 1994, with all this grimy, street-level stuff. That one panel where Superman is fighting a Hanna-Barberra style electrical monster, that jolted me back and reminded me this was a Superman comic. Whoa, whoa, hold up I want to read the story with the MONSTER in Antarctica!

So far, this is the only issue of Busiek’s run that’s disappointed me. It was about Superman failing and Superman’s limitations, and while Superman certainly can fail, the whole point of the character is he doesn’t experience limitations. It’s a style of storytelling, and a mentality, that is circa-1994.

The monster story is a thousand times more interesting, and it’s just seen in flashback. Superman discovering a strange, exotic kind of monster is really innocent once he discovers a means of communication and diplomacy? See, THAT’S a Superman story, based on a science fiction concept, an exotic locale, and a resolution based on a combination of intelligence and diplomacy where the “humanity” of so-called “aliens” is affirmed.

Maybe I shouldn’t be too hard on it because it was obviously a fill-in issue. But STILL.


SUPERMAN 660:

I like this story already. Here, we get a window into the Prankster’s day-to-day life. A wonderful bit of characterization that redeems a “loser” villain. The detail Busiek added about being wanted in 57 countries is a great touch that emphasizes his real, formidability. He isn’t a joke: he’s a scary underworld figure.

I really, really love it when writers show a villain like Prankster to really be a functional villain. He really CAN go toe to toe with Superman. Not just as a joke, or a gag, but as a real villain. A worthy addition to his rogue’s gallery.

The Prankster’s debonair appearance (incongruously combined with his wardrobe) was a great addition, giving the Prankster a sort of “old Vaudeville” look. One enhanced by the movie posters in his lair and an army of attractive assistants. He is shown quoting humorists. There’s a dichotomy between his obvious erudition and attractive appearance and his tacky stunts, like causing an entire marathon to fail with banana peels, or alarm clocks that shoot out boxing gloves.

Suddenly, Busiek gets right to the core of the Prankster’s personality: he’s an erudite, old-fashoined sort of person, who values manners, and who loves comedy. LOVES it. Views it as a divine revelation, and himself as an artist. His pranks are art, and it’s more important to have art than money. The conflict: placing Loomis against a person with very modern, very thuggish sensibilities (he doesn’t even get that explosions and glue guns don’t GO together!) you see this.

(Of course, expect everyone on this forum to female dog and whine about how now that Busiek the Prankster’s a REAL PERSON and a FORMIDABLE MENACE, he’s no “fun” anymore. They’d much rather have stories like that one where the Prankster tricks Superman into breaking obscure laws, like how you can’t stick a penny behind your ear. That is why…though I love Superman Through the Ages and Superman’s great past as an adventure hero, the “core” membership is based on a perverse fixation, that fetishizes terrible stories that aren’t done anymore for a reason. I take my low karma as a badge of pride when surrounded by Bat-Mite loving savages.)

Anyone else see that the Prankster’s plan – dropping free money – is identical to the Penguin dropping bird dollar coins in “The Malay Penguin?”

All in all, a great villain-centered issue. Probably the best yet.


SUPERMAN 661:

I expected not to like this story because, except for when Marty Pasko wrote her, I’ve never understood why Wonder Woman is such a big deal. I should have had more faith in Busiek’s ability to make me like characters I otherwise wouldn’t.

Right away we see how Busiek establishes Wonder Woman is different from Superman: she’s pacifistic, humanitarian, hates violence, and is philanthropic. Good characterization.

I love the Lois-Clark repartee. They tease each other, they’re best friends as well as married. I also love the detail about Clark Kent being such a forgettable, ignorable person, that no one looks directly at him to the point where even when he is removed of clothes to reveal Superman nobody remembers what he looks like.

The story is interesting to read because it really engrosses you in the Wonder Woman atmosphere, with the Greek statues and mythological references. The story is about a piece of folklore come to life. Wonder Woman’s surprise at an internet café shows the most interesting aspect of her character: she’s superintelligent, but somewhat distanced from pop culture.

I also like the idea that Lois and Wonder Woman are friends and also something of partners. Pairing them together was one of the masterstrokes of this issue. Virginia Woolf once said that the surest way to know if female characters are real people instead of male-created objects, is if they form friendships with each other.

A person cursed to require and demand intimacy with others because she refuses to do so…this is reminiscent of Tanith Lee’s THE DEATH’S MASTER, which I’m certain Busiek has probably read.

Blink and you miss the DOOM PATROL reference to a “John Dayton,” probably a relative of Mento’s.

What I find most interesting about Khyrana’s attitude that Wonder Woman wants Superman for himself, is that…at first it sounds like she’s just being irrational. But what gets more intriguing is the possibility she’s RIGHT!

Khyrana is a very sympathetic villainess. I’ve noticed that Busiek’s run on SUPERMAN is all about the villains. Though if I have a problem it is that Khyrana’s powers are so ill-defined and unclear.

Yup, that was Scrapper of the Newsboy Legion.

Busiek really hadn't impressed me with his run until Action 853-854. This story had it all: Jimmy Olsen, Krypto, a new Titano, and a whole bunch of neat ideas. The Unternet? Genius!
I really like the idea of Jimmy as a superhero, and I like the idea of Jimmy being Krypto's keeper even more. I hope that some really fun stories can arise from this for both Superman and Jimmy.

I don't know.  I like Busiek and his superman is pretty solid but its not "wowing' me like I hoped. Its kinda slow.

I do wish DC would rediscover the beauty that is the single issue story.

Busiek did three single-issue stories. The Prankster story, the Wonder Woman team-up, and the issue he did with Fabian Niceza.

When I think of great Superman stories, I think of ones that went over multiple issues: Maggin/Bates's "Who Took the Super Out of Superman?" Martin Pasko's Amalak tale, Superman infiltrating the Superman Revenge Squad, and classic Legion stories like Jim Shooter's Sun-Eater and Adult Legion, and Levitz's Earthwar and Great Darkness.

I honestly don't find single-issue stories enjoyable. Well, I can, but they're like a dancing bear: cute for about five minutes.

What makes me CARE about a book and what goes on, are the running subplots: not just the character subplots and love triangles, but the recurring mysteries. These keep me coming back, these keep me interested. And there's something classic and grandiose and "big" about stories like AVENGERS/DEFENDERS WAR.

That's why I'm really loving Busiek's Superman: the subplots. The Third Kryptonian; Subjekt-17; Sirocco; Arion; Superman wondering if he does too much.

Let me put it another way: I can watch an episode of LAW & ORDER if I'm bored in a hotelroom or something. But I won't care about it. I won't think about it when it isn't on. In fact, right now, I'm trying to picture the cast of L&O, and I can get Sam Watterson and Angie Harmon and Ice-T, and...nobody else. I've seen 15 or so episodes, but I don't know their character's names.

On the other hand, the stuff I really love is ALIAS and LOST. Which are almost entirely serialized, almost entirely build on other episodes. It turns the entire series into one big episode, which has scope and depth that is absolutely unbelievable, which makes old-fashoined one-hour dramas like HAWAII 5-0 look old-fashoined.

Why did I have a feeling I would think exactly the opposite?  8)

I have the highest respect for writers that can bring in a believable "Hawaii Five-O" story in an hour. See seasons 2's "The Singapore File".

On the other hand, it can be bad (try to figure out how "Star Trek's" McCoy either fell in love or out of love in "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky").

I hate the bloated never ending stories that span forever, I HATE "Lost" and "Alias"...LOL...

I like his Action fill-ins even better than his Superman runs, but Superman #666 and Walt Simonson and killing the "is Supes a killer" in a killer way (and a one-issue story, no less) was worthwhile. 

Too many decompressed arcs make me think of what Mark Twain said:

“I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”

Superman 666, yes of course :)

1st time Superman become old nick : http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Satan

and here we go again ;)

Check out this cool Video of Walt Simonson talking about his devilish issue:


http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/005516888.cfm

Walts Art seems off in this issue. Still enjoyed Supes superspit though.

I liked Walt's artwork.  I felt like I was reading an old issue of The Mighty Thor or a Manhunter story.

SPOILERS

I was left wondering whether or not the Rakkar demon was a swipe at Johnny Redbeard; with the whole thing about how Rakkar kept telling Superman that he had murdered, but how the real Superman had no clue what he was talking about.   Only the false, perverted imposter Superman seemed to know what Rakkar was referring to.

Just a thought.

SUPERMAN 660:

First, let me say something right off the bat that I love about Busiek's Superman: he's "casually cosmic." There's a grandiosity about him. For instance, he's walking on the ocean floor just to get his thoughts together, and, just as an aside, he talks about taking his adopted son to visit Jupiter.

It isn't thrown out in some cartoony, Otto Binderesque manner...it's done casually, as if this is just Superman's day-to-day life. That's something I always liked about Superman: there's a sense normal limitations don't apply to him, that he can pretty much do anything.

I enjoyed very much the various single issue stuff. The Prankster issue in particular was "corkin'," like my buddies in the U.K. say. But THIS issue was great because it's weaving in all the threads and mysteries you read the book for.

Remember the X-FILES, back when it was good? Occasionally they'd do one stand-alone episode where they'd look for Bigfoot or a Fluke Man or whatever, but then...THEN they did the "mythology" shows that advanced the broader storyline.

First, there was the Sirocco/Khyber mystery, and the first appearance of Sirocco in "reality." The plot thickens, because...it turns out Khyber, the villain Arion prophesized would end the human race...is DEAD! Da-dum! Didn't see that coming. But if Khyber's dead, how come Sirocco is alive?

Then the book reminds us of the Third Kryptonian mystery, and takes time to tell us one clue: it isn't Power Girl. It was great to see her guest-star, and I wish she stayed around.

You have several brief mentions of Superman and Lois's adopted kid. This is something Johns is mostly doing, but it's great to see some tight issue-to-issue connectivity. The ACTION COMICS/SUPERMAN relationship here is very ideal: they aren't "compartmentalized," which always stretched disbelief, but then again you can read one without the other, unlike in the bad old days of the "triangle numbering."

There's also the mystery of the unaccounted for villains, briefly mentioned in the Fortress. You get a feeling that before Busiek's run is done, there's going to be a reckoning. I love it when writers do this; turn their whole "run" into one big story in and of itself and plan accordingly. My favorite story, however, is Subjekt-17, now hiding out in Tibet. I repeat my speculation in the previous thread: Subjekt-17 has some kind of relationship to Krypton or Kryptonians. You get a feeling there's something crucial in the character's backstory.

You have also the subplot of Superman wondering if he does too much for the world, which is his fundamental conflict since Maggin. I read this, I go, "yes! Yes! THAT is what Superman is about!" My favorite part about this is not just you get a rare glimpse of what Clark Kent thinks about Superman (!), but also you see Jimmy Olsen, even more than Lois, believes in Superman and refuses to take his friendship with him for granted. I've come out of the Busiek run with a lot of respect for Jimmy.

Single issue stories are great and all, but I read something like this, and I can't WAIT to pick up the next one.

Cant wait for kurts Insect Queen Story Line (with lana lang)

hopefully its the orignal insect queen. (or close enough)

Kurt will be teaming with comic's latest movie/TV-director turned writer, David Cronenberg.  Rumor is that it'll start out as a rehash of The Fly, but in a head-blowing twist, we'll find that Scanners in Smallville have really been responsible.  Can Superman be re-animated?

And no, not being serious, except in an Iron Age sense.  I hope we get something like the original Insect Queen too.  :)

Man I would be all over that comic!!!

cronberg and busiek together!!!

-I dont know why I kind of hope Queen Bee from JLA shows up too. (and maybe ambush bug)

...yeah...I still say that Busiek's Superman is bland, uninspired, directionless, and dreary. I'll put up any single issue of All Star Superman up against Busiek's entire run.

After reading that Astro City Samaritan Special, which is the best Superman story Busiek ever wrote, I remain dissapointed with bueisk's run, which had taken a year to tell a story Morrison would have finished in three months, tops.

I'm glad Busiek is developing the idea of Insect Queen, because it involves a reappearance of one of the more interesting subplots he's using in his run: that of Lana Lang as head of LexCorp. She's a divorcee so there is a possibility of some scandalous romance with her and Clark Kent. Who knows what mysteries will be examined? It's a comic like this that makes you tap dance to the comics store on Wednesdays.

I'm not a fan of the original Insect Queen concept...however, if it can be applied in an interesting way, I'm all for it. Busiek got me to like...no...LOVE the Prankster.

The original Insect Queen...ah, now there was a case of "Claremontism" before Chris Claremont was even on the scene:

1) It involved a formerly nonpowered female becoming liberated and powerful;

2) It involved a weird, unwelcome twist to a previous straightforward character.

I have just have this to say: can't some characters just be...NORMAL? I mean, what's wrong with that?

This reminds me of a moment on Byrne's run on ALPHA FLIGHT. He revealed in dialogue that Puck was "in constant pain." This was because Puck was a midget and had spinal problems.

Claremont later ran with this and revealed the reason Puck was in pain was because (are you ready for this?) he was actually a normal sized man possessed by an Ancient Arabian demon.


I agree, but that's because of how amazingly little real story there truly is in your average issue of All-Star Superman, the modern Superman titles' poor inbred cousin.

Here's issue 2 of ASS in five seconds:

SUPERMAN: "Look, my Fortress is full of shiny objects!"
LOIS: "Wow! All these shiny objects distract me from the lack of real conflict!"
SUPERMAN: "Right! Glad you mentioned that, Lois! You need to behave erratically and out of character now for a forgotten reason pulled from nowhere."
LOIS: "Okay! DIE DIE DIE SUPERJERK!"
SUPERMAN: "Great! Now let's set up issue three's cliffhanger, and have a chaste, frigid kiss."

THE END

Busiek actually has long-term subplots. What's Grant Morrison's long-term development? In issue 3, the Last Action Hebrew, Samson, reveals to Superman all the things he's going to beat up in future issues. That's not a story, that's a program for a professional wrestling event.

Actually, it's more of a statements of the fact that Morrisons packs in more concepts, contexts, themes and honest emotion in a single comic that Busiek has over a year of slow motion decompressed mediocrity.
Beautifully irrelvant strawman, by the way,

That's tons more than what has happened in any single issue of Bueiek's "Camelot Falls storyline.

hastily established, and easily forgotten.

Did you forget that All Star is a finite storyline? wutth a definite beginning middle and end?

And BTW, did that little thing about Superman's impending DEATH ring a bell? Lois figuring out Superman identity and the ramifications for their relationship?
Long term development? more Claremont-esque

Any given issue All Star Superman contains so  far more emotional depth, cosmic imagination, thematic mytho-poetic grandeur than any Superman story Busiek's ever written this side of the Astro City Samaritan Special. That's the closest I've seen Busiek come to Morrison's typical level.

So Superman perfoming feats "isn't a story"? Last I checked, performing feats are a part and parcel of the Hero's Journey.

Busiek's ru had potentially, but it was quickly wasted inn the face of lazy uses of the kryptonite crutch, out of character moral deficiencies(lois cheating for Clark), a reaffirmation of the  Peter Parker, super-farmboy persona, long paced issues with virtualy nothing happening but long-winded speeches and narration...Busiek's ru is....decent, at best. nothing reallt stands out about it, really. It's no better than some of the better issues of the Loeb/Casey/Schultz/Kelly era, as far as I'm concerned. All Star stands apart and is on a higher level entirely.

Okay, where to begin.


Yeah, but they're all misused so all the grandiosity and imagination is sucked out of it.

Superman is revealed to be able to communicate with his far-future descendants, and the only thing it's used for is a friggin' J-Lo joke?

Superman has a Sun-Eater, the most terrible creature ever invented, which can render lifeless an entire galaxy, which once required a Legionnaire to perform the ultimate sacrifice...and he uses it as a PET for a brief sight-gag?

Ideas, or concepts, are totally worthless. I have ideas, you have ideas. Here, let me tell you one of mine: I once thought it would be really interesting if Max from HART TO HART got a job at the Daily Planet. Okay, it wouldn't really be Max, but it would be a guy like him: an older, gravel-voiced working-class guy that keeps Clark Kent and the rest in touch with the common man.

Ideas don't matter. What matters is how they're used. In some ways, Green Lantern had very few "ideas:" the Lantern Corps, the Guardians, the Weaponeers. And that's pretty much it. Compare that to the sprawling mess that was Weisenger Superman. It's not because they had a LOT of ideas, but how they were developed and used.


The most important Superman theme from Maggin to RED SON, that of Superman wondering if he does too much for mankind or if he is an alien interfering with man's destiny, is not only on display in the Busiek SUPERMAN, but is the Busiek run's CENTRAL CONFLICT.

Morrison did some lip-service in the first issue of his magazine about how Superman inspires mankind to great heights, but all that was forgotten after the first issue, and even then, it wasn't a part of the story. More like a distracting sideshow: "step right up! See your blue Zero-Gee giant here...."


There was nothing more fake and artificial than that chaste Disney kiss at the end of issue 2.

Superman discovers he's dying. Imagine how gut-renching a situation that is, and none of that is explored. What if you learned YOU were dying?  Superman is a can-do, never say die kind of guy, but he's not a robot.


Busiek introduces a mystery and it isn't solved in the first issue. It makes you excited to pick up a second one.

And that's a BAD thing...how?


What strawman? That was my point: in a whole issue nothing freaking happened.

Seriously, what was the story? The conflict? Grant comes up with something totally artificial in the last few pages out of desperation with Lois wielding a Kryptonite laser. But the issue had NO conflict.

Let's compare what actually happens in ASS #2 to SUPERMAN #660:

ASS #2

Superman gives Lois a tour. (No conflict or mystery)
Lois goes crazy in the last five pages.
Cliffhanger where Lois gets powers.


SUPERMAN #660:
In the mystery of the Third Kryptonian, it is revealed Power Girl isn't the one.
Superman finds Sirocco in "our" timeline and foils terrorists.
But...it's revealed that Khyber is dead. How?
Subjekt-17 is revealed to be alive and living in Tibet.
Superman searches his soul and wonders if he is doing too much for mankind, his central conflict

...and that wasn't even one of the busier issues.

But I wouldn't say ASS is decompressed. That would be a step-up, actually. It doesn't even have a story TO decompress.


Hastily established? The guy spent TWO issues detailing the threat Khyber posed. He showed us an alternate universe and expended effort and thought into creating the world.

Something I should add, Morrison is chronically unable to do with his alternate worlds.

Do me a favor: take out pen and paper and write down everything you know about Morrison's Antimatter Earth from his entire JLA story arc. Now, take a pad and paper out and write down everything you know after just the SECOND ISSUE ALONE of Busiek's "Syndicate Rules" arc.

Now, I can forgive little things like not mentioning Barracuda, but...not mentioning the favor principle? The very BASIS of how this entire world functions? Not even establishing the teensy-weensy but ever so important little detail that...oh yeah, Ultraman and Superwoman are married? Their entire relationship made no sense until that detail was revealed.

Sad how in EIGHT ISSUES, Busiek utterly outshone and outdid everything Morrison accomplished in years on JLA.


We can't know that for years to come, but we'll see.

I doubt Khyber will be forgotten. Truly grandiose villains are so uncommon it's not like comics can afford to misplace one or two here and there.

While we're speculating about which will be better remembered...when the sensationalism and hype dies, ASS will be left with a nonexistent story and wooden characters. Twenty, thirty years from now, I'll bet the Superman comics that will be talked about will be SUPERMAN and ACTION COMICS. Not just because they are of better quality, but because  they "really" happened in real continuity. They can have significance and influence on later stories. CHALLENGE OF THE SUPERHEROES was forgotten, but people still buy TPBs of CRISIS.


...because if there's one thing that finite stories can't have, it's stories other than the main one in each issue!

And yes, I did forget it was a finite story, because the last issue came out sometime during Ancient Rome. To be fair, this isn't Morrison's fault, but still. It's a strike against the book.


Though Claremont could be ham-handed, there's nothing wrong with the technique of viewing an entire arc as one big story. Englehart did this, and Gerber did this too.


"Morrison doesn't suck! Because, look! Joseph Campbell!"

I'll say one thing Busiek has over Morrison (unworthy to be mentioned in the same breath): Busiek has Superman be cosmic and mythic by just being who he is...whereas Morrison has to come up with ham-handed, unsubtle, illiterate references to Greek Mythology.


Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Look above at all the reviews and commentary I've done for these issues. NOT A SINGLE FREAKIN' ONE has Kryptonite in it!


baloney. Give me one example.

Because here, let me give you an example of him NOT being a Super-Forrest Gump: he's clearly defined as Superintelligent. The scene of him reading the book on the plane with microphysics, for instance.


Again, baloney. Give me one example.

But I can come up with TWO pretty easy examples of comics where nothing happens but people talking: ASS: #2 (aka "Superman Travel Channel Edition") and the issue where Luthor walks around and gives an interview for a whole freakin issue.

Not to say the rest of ASS isn't wheezy and asthmatic, but those two are just the biggies.


Oh, I agree it..."stands apart." ;D

Man that last issue of Camelot falls was disapointing. NOTHING HAPPENED!! I buy two comics a week and I have been picking up Kurts Superman but I really could have skipped that issue.
For 2.99 I expect a bit more. (nice art though)

I think in retrospect it might have been a mistake for kurt to do this huge camelot falls story right from the start.
He said next year he's going to do shorter storylines (i guess like the 3 part Insect Queen). I just hope lana just has a costume and not having a gross bug bottomhalf but a normal human top half (it just looks weird)

I guess people can't be normal in comics is because their is only so much stuff you can do with normal people when all this weird stuff is going on. Though maybe in comicbook universe, weird stuff is totally normal.
Hey joe what happened yesterday? we were suppose to go to the movies??
-oh ya I got kidnapped by a time traveling tyrant from the year 20000000 AD. But Aquaman saved me so I didn't miss work.
oh again?? I hate getting kiddnaped by supervillians.  Did you get Aquaman's autograph?

PS. it was byne who wrote Alpha flight not Claremont

It's a fun little game to catch all the endless errors in his posts, ironically Kurt Busiek was the best at it.

The story where Puck was revealed to be small because of possession by an Arabian demon was written by Bill Mantlo, not Johnny Redbeard (and not Claremont as I remembered, though the confusion is rather understandable).

Here's an explanation right from the horse's mouth about the Puck origin business:


http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects (http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects)

This was a year ago, though... ;D

One day a few months ago, I found a very early post by Julian where he says nice things about Otto Binder...and then there's the poor Tawny love/hate affair... 8)

I am sure a love letter to Otto Binder is coming soon, then two weeks later a post about how much Otto Binder stinks and should be brought back to life to be killed again. Then that weekend, another post about how Otto Binder rules and Morrison is the greatest writer ever, then the very same day in the same thread one that talks about how much they should have all their books collected and burned.

J-Lo is actually the evil robotic nemesis counterpart of L-Ron.  This is really long-term planning for "Revenge of the Giffenverse", Giffen taking over ASS after Morrison departs...  there's bigger big-booty here to fry. 

I have some good things to say about Otto Binder.

He wrote one good story that I do like: the original Kryptonite Man story. It was not a perfect story by any means: there's this time-killing subplot about Clark Kent and a radioactive money that distracted from the action. Ugh. NO. ONE. CARES. Also, there is the usual problems with Plastino's art. Don't believe me? Look on page six. Man, I ain't exactly Mr. Universe, and I could pick up that Fortress Key.

Luthor can build a satellite that turns all lead worldwide into glass, but he can't notice a giant military helicopter RIGHT ABOVE HIM?

All those problems aside, by Binder standards "Kryptonite Man" was absolute genius. Unlike nearly all of Binder's output, it involves a fight with a real villain. (I know. What a concept, right?) It was unbelievably grandiose, with Superman as an underdog against an unbelievably powerful Luthor, playing Tom and Jerry with various schemes.

Even a blind monkey sometimes finds a banana.

I do, however, think that Binder was an immense loser that endured the humiliation of being utterly owned by a thirteen year old at his chosen profession.

If I could bring to film one "behind the scenes" comics story, it would be Otto Binder meets Jim Shooter. It would be the AMADEUS of comics. Ben Stiller would play Otto Binder as an especially dark version of the persecuted everyman he does in every movie, who's moved by envy to murder Jim Shooter (played by Hayley Joel Osmond).

WHICH OF THESE IS NOT LIKE THE OTHERS?

"The Sun Eater and the Death of Ferro Lad"
"The Adult Legion Story"
"Lana Lang is...the Six Legged Legionnaire!"


Yeah, but look at what I'm actually saying there:

"Whee! I'm distracted by shiny objects!'

OF COURSE  I'd wise up from that. I wised up a hell of a lot quicker on ASS than I did on something as goofy and style-over-substance like MacGregor's KILLRAVEN or the Conway ATARI FORCE (heh heh heh).

Also, we have to take into account writers that raise the bar. I liked Morrison's JLA at the time, but found myself immensely critical of Morrison's JLA when Geoff Johns showed how a DC team book should be done in JSA (and later, when Busiek and Meltzer did their bit with the book). Likewise, when Busiek and Johns started Superman, it became increasingly physically painful to read Morrison.

These things happen. After BATMAN BEGINS did so much right that other movie versions did wrong, many people, myself included, could not appreciate the nineties Tim Burton Batman movies.


Hehehe. Couldn't Giffen have named a robot after a, y'know, GOOD science fiction pulp writer? L-Brak, for instance?

(I assume he named the robot after L. Ron Hubbard because of his science fiction...because the alternative is too horrifying to dare contemplate.)

sigh... I'm waiting for the time when Julian can restrain himself from any reference to Marvel Comics...

Julian would be really happy in a Marvel Thru the Ages Forum, right?

You're whining about the Insect Queen = Claremont Woman thing now, right?

Whatever else I can say about Lana Lang as Insect Queen, at least she was portrayed as a resourceful, savvy heroine. Alas, the same cannot be said of Jimmy Olsen as Elastic Lad.

The most entertaining Jimmy Olsen, at least for me, is the "Mr. Action" strips in SUPERMAN FAMILY and elsewhere, where Jimmy Olsen was a scrappy, gutsy crimebuster that knew Judo and outfoxed diamond smugglers. That, and the Kirby take, where Jimmy was a rebel that took on bikers.

In fact, "Mr. Action" reminds me a little of Heinlein's less supermacho heroes. Jimmy embodied Heinlein's philosophy that "specialization is for insects." Mr Action could throw a punch, pick a lock, stunt drive, SCUBA dive, crack a code, create a disguise, solve a mystery, write an article, be sarcastic, be sincere, and cook (...okay, not the last one: it's been said on many occasions Jimmy could burn water. But that's alright, he's not Superman or anything.)

That's the fundamental reason Elastic Lad bugs me: if Pre-Crisis Jimmy Olsen ever did become a superhero, even temporarily, he would be effective and capable, maybe even Justice League material. He certainly wouldn't be a joke that solves crimes by accident, like in Pete Costanza's "Lone Wolf Legionnaire Reporter." Sure, Jimmy sometimes got way in over his head, but he's got the "right stuff," just like Barry Allen and Hal Jordan.

And though it's a minor thing, the outfit was terrible. I especially love the giant "ELASTIC LAD" stenciled on the chest, like he's at a cocktail party. It reminds me of Four-Legged Man from the Tick, who, in case you didn't get the point, had on his chest, in parenthesis no less, (FOUR LEGS)

what about elongated man's costume!!??


the thing is , Jimmy Olsen isn't a graphic designer. That was the best costume he could come up with. Really how could Spiderman really come up and make a costume that complex!?! (ever try drawing all those lines on his costume. yeesh ditko.)