Superman Through the Ages! Forum

I've just added an entry for the Zoo Crew (of Capt. Carrot fame). I figured it'd be worth adding given the big role Superman plays in the team's origin/first adventure (though since "New Teen Titans" and the Zoo Crew series itself aren't on the "official" list of canonical sources, I wasn't sure about adding it at first...):

http://www.supermanica.info/wiki/index.php/Zoo_Crew

Unless, you can find at least one appearance in any of the canonical sources, it has to be removed.

I disagree with the entry for the following reasons:

1. I have no problem with non-canonical references being included (spelled out in full) if the character later appeared in canonical works.

2. If we allow references to  non-canonical stories, why not let in references to all DC, including Justice League etc. Tons of Justice League is referenced in Superman stories. I still think Black Lightning was a mistake, based on preferences not on guidelines.

3. There are hundreds of 70s and 80s canonical stories not included in Supermanica. I keep thinking that the Bronze Age fans could start on those rather than favorite DC comics from the time period. I don't even like the Bronze Age but I've been trying to enter the stories.

I still think that Supermanica has many hundreds of references to go before entries based on non-canonical sources should be included.

This entry is very well done, and the material it covers seems to be a part of Superman's extensive story.

I think it makes sense to keep it.

Well, you're the boss...

But i still disagree, I could write very well done entries for Kanjor Ro or Starro and Superman met them both and both are referred to in stories but they aren't canonical.

It is well written, so if it is to stay then this page needs to be edited:
http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Canonical_sources?macduff_session=264b13975f993007ad9cfa344a8085ec

Like I said, I wasn't sure if this entry was appropriate or not (there's a "Mary Marvel of Earth-S" entry that doesn't refer to any of the listed canonical sources either); the Zoo Crew characters didn't show up in any of the Superman-related titles proper pre-Crisis, so I'll understand if anyone wants to take the entry down...

I like the entry, to me it just seems like the canonical sources are getting expanded too much.

There was a Muhammed Ali entry last year that was OK but it didn't stay.

I guess I'm just a big rules person, maybe I need to take a break from Supermanica.  ;)

Yes the Mary Marvel article needs some serious work but unlike the Zoo Crew, she actually appeared in canonical comics:

http://comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=35369&zoom=4

DC Comics Presents #33
DC Comics Presents #34
DC Comics Presents Annual #3

Although I consider myself to be the "founder" of Supermanica, I do not consider myself to be the "boss" - this is why I've done the polls and such, hoping that others would eventually step up to the plate.  If people would like to alter the way that things are currently set up and nominate me for dictator, I will gladly comply - just be prepared to have the non-DC Maggin short stories, the current post-IC Superman titles, and All-Star added to the canonical sources.  These are all things that I have proposed in the past and that have been voted down.

But I prefer Supermanica the way it is - with policy set by committee - and I think the site is better for it.

The intent in my post was not to make some sort of decree about the Zoo Crew article, but merely to voice my opinion in support of it.


The difference here is that Kanjor Ro and Starro are characters that Superman merely encountered as part of his adventures with the JLA.  I agree that leaving the JLA and LSH details out of Supermanica makes sense.  But in our JLA article, we do mention that Superman is a charter member of the team - citing a Brave and the Bold issue - because this is (apparently) not mentioned in any of the canonical sources.  Similarly,  Superman had a key role in both the creation and the naming of the Zoo Crew, a high-profile and very well known team of heroes

Again - just my two cents.

As far as the JLA... I can see not all of his JLA adventures referenced (or they can be)... but why not?  The JLA crossed over into mainstream Superman titles frequently, as well as JLA foes such as Amazo.

Is DCCP canon?  Who decides what is canon and what isn't?  Why would the Zoo Crew not be canon, since Superman pretty much helped form the team?  Just because they are on an Earth populated by intelligent animals?

Why nitpick?  It's all fiction and all for our enjoyment.  Even if these events "really" happen on parallel Earths and all, who decides on our Earth that those events aren't real?

I like going through Supermanica... add to it to enrich it... if Superman or family appeared somewhere, put it in there for completeness sake, I say!  I for one, from a research and enjoyment POV, like the oddball stuff.  It reminds me of a better time in comics.

I say lighten up!

I am all for adding every Superman comic book appearance ever... pre-crisis. But, We have rules for a reason.


Well, if crap like Black Lighting is canon, why the heck not Zoo Crew?!?

I'll go make up a poll.

Maybe we should add another poll to take Black Lighting out?

MatterEaterLad can start that one.

I actually voted to include it, why not? I think Muhammed Ali should be grandfathered in too.

Just as a final crabby aside  ;D I will say that there are soooooooo many cananical comics not covered that I would rather get a handle on filling those in, but then again, there really are only a handful of people who stick with Supermanica after a few entries.

The thing about Black Lightning is that he DID have canonical appearances, I actually wrote the original entry and spelled out the non-canonical sources in full. A lot of the series were his own stories and no one ever added them anyway. So a reader now has to figure out what the BL acronym means.

So who decides what is and isn't "canon"?  I'm sorry, but it sounds like a bunch of editors at DC!

 :'(

Thanks Beppo.  And for those who care to vote, the poll is here (http://superman.nu/smf/index.php?topic=3831.msg31470;topicseen#msg31470).


I took the list of titles that The Great Superman Book worked from, extended it to 1986, and added a couple of other titles that I thought should have been included.

Since then, there have been a series of polls here which have added some more titles, and not added others.

The entire list of canon titles is posted at Supermanica (http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Canonical_sources).  And to clear up any possible mis-understanding, we're not saying that anything not listed there never happened, just that it's outside our purview.  At the time, we also wanted to keep the role and purpose of Supermanica clearly defined so that we didn't have random people coming in and focusing on Iron Age continuity or other inappropriate material.

I voted against the Zoo Crew addition. The Muhammad Ali entry on the other hand... :)

Why one and not the other?

Ali appeared in a special self-contained issue that was a "crossover" of a sort with Superman. The Zoo Crew x-over was the launch of a monthly series starring said team. To me, there's a big difference and this opens the door to making all Superfamily x-overs fair game. That would be one more step toward making every appearance of every Superfamily character canon, which would in my opinion, diffuse Supermanica's focus too much.