Superman Through the Ages! Forum

I've been reading comics for a very long time (going on twenty-five years) and DC has always been my preference. Superman and The Batman are my two favorite characters, and I have read their books on and off again due to constantly changing quality.

I was hoping that "Secret Origin" would be the beginning of a new era in Superman comics, but now that's going the way of "Birthright."

This reboot stinks to high heaven, IMO, from the new costume "designs" to the statement that Grant Morrison (highly overrated, IMO) is going to "re-imagine" Superman.

I was only reading Green Lantern and the Flash these last few years, and now those titles are going to be changed as well.

I've been giving it a lot of thought and I think that the reboot might mark the end of my regular comic book reading for a good while, if not for good. I'm still picking up Cap and Iron Man (consistently good writing that, while event-driven, doesn't resort to reboots and revamps like DC does) but I think that's going to be it going ahead.

Is anyone else in this same boat? I get the impression that some of you guys haven't been reading the titles for a while now anyway, but I'm curious who else is going to say "bye bye" to DC as a result of the reboot.

For me, it's a matter of voting with my wallet. I just don't like this new approach, and I think it's going to fail in a few years. But until or unless that happens, DC won't be getting my money.

Eh, I stopped buying the main books when Busiek left. Kept up by reading friends copies. The only new Superman comic material I've bought the past couple of years was Cary Bates' Elseworlds book and JMS' Earth 1.

I'll likely read some of the revamp the same way, but I'm not putting down money for it.

I honestly don't care what DC does with the property anymore. We've had 3 different origins in the past 10 years, numerous retcons, and only a small amount of good material. The character has been portrayed as an uncaring, revenge-minded maniac in some stories and an inept wimp in others. There is no consistency anymore.

If I had to put my finger on where I said to hell with the titles, it was during New Krypton. They take the main character out of his books for the duration and replace him with C-listers that are about as interesting as linoleum. They do some decent character development in WONK and Supergirl, but never explain in story why Lois Lane's father is suddenly Thunderbolt Ross because a Geoff Johns retcon is late as usual. Now, how much sense does this make to readers when the last time they saw the character in any capacity was during OWAW when he went out a hero and still had his Post-Crisis history intact. The story kept on going and going and going and going. Until War of the Supermen where DC decided that nearly two years worth of character development and world building was useless blew the planet up and had Zod reveal that those two years were a ruse and he was just a one-dimensional character. To add insult to injury, readers are supposed to buy that 15, 000 Kryptonians lose to Earth. That type of half-assed writing and editorial decisions are why I don't care anymore.

You know, Chuck Dixon was right. Dan DiDio is a directionless, gladhander, with a ouija board. This revamp is just his latest attempt in a decade of retcons, reboots, and Crises at throwing crap against a wall and seeing what sticks.

Well, I "jumped" around 1993, and if my experience is anything to judge by, I say embrace the change in your life...set yourself free.

Seriously, I know it's hard to give up monthlies for tons of reasons.  You don't want to desert your neighborhood shop owner.  You don't want to give up on a part of your life you once cherished.  Maybe, like me, you even define yourself largely by your hobby.  But when something stops being fun for you...something voluntary by nature...it's time to let it go.  You don't owe DC anything. 

I have no desire to see DC "fail" or "go under" but frankly, I've gotten what I wanted, and they got lots of my money, so it's an amicable split.

Welcome to the forum, Apex.  You say that you've been reading comics for about 25 years - which puts your starting point at 1986, the same year as Byrne's MOS mini-series (http://superman.nu/portal/History/end.php), another major Superman/DC reboot.  Although we can't know exactly what this reboot will be like until it happens, I gave that one a chance and I plan to give this one a chance.

I've read Grant Morrison's work in Superman 2000 (http://superman.nu/portal/History/2000/), The Flash (http://superman.nu/portal/History/grant.php), JLA (http://superman.nu/portal/History/grant.php), DC One Million, and All-Star Superman (http://superman.nu/portal/History/allstar/).  I think he's one of the top Superman writers there is, up there with Jerry Siegel (http://superman.nu/portal/Creators/siegelBio.php) and Elliot Maggin (http://superman.nu/portal/Maggin/maggin.php).  He gets it.  I also really enjoyed Perez (http://superman.nu/portal/History/EarthTwo/great.gif)'s work on Teen Titans, the Wonder Woman reboot, and his brief Action Comics stint in the 90s.  I'm looking forward to seeing what the two of them come up with.

I think that Superman has been through far worse times than what he'll go through during this reboot (however long-term or short-term its effects may be) and I plan to pick up the first few issues, then decide -- just as I've always done with any new creative team on the books.

Having said that, I will be staying far away from the new JLA:

(http://superman.nu/images/new-jla-sdcc-promo.jpg) (http://superman.nu/portal/History/2011_relaunch.php)

Yes this will be my official jumping off point for new DC comic magazines. I admit to being curious about some of the new books, but the tipping point for me was the re-numbering. If I bought those books I would be sending a message that I approve of the re-numbering--which I definitely don't. So I have to stick to my guns and refuse to choose the number ones.

The renumbering bothers me too.  But back in 1986, we had a new Superman #1, a new Flash #1, and a new Wonder Woman #1.  Granted that this time it's an across-the-board renumbering, but I don't think this is a radical new idea.  I don't follow Marvel Comics that closely, but I think they're doing something similar in at least some of their titles.

Well it's a gradual erosion that has taken decades. At least in '86 they kept the old numbering of Superman by changing the title to Adventures of..., and ultimately going back to the original title after Infinite Crisis. While Detective, Action, and Batman kept their numbers. They never tried to do an across the board re-numbering before.

And just recently they returned Adventure Comics with its old numbering and Wonder Woman got re-re-numbered. So they give with one hand and take away with the other.

Each little bit that they take away might not seem enough to break one's attachment to the whole, but all those little bits accumulate into a large chunk of everything that I used to like about DC.

I find it impossible to explain this to people on the DC message boards. Because, when taken bit by bit, it seems like I am being unreasonable. "What you're going to give up on these comics because of______?" But it's the totality of everything. It's hard to get that across. And when you've been getting these books for 45 years, every little failure adds up to one big oppressive wrong.

Not a chance. I'm a big fan of Superman. I'm a big fan of everone in the JLA (except Hal Jordan).
I'll boycott Batman for a little while, because I want Dick Grayson back as a Caped Crusader. But I'll get over that too, and I'll pick up Batman again.

And Superman? There's no way I would abandon my favorite character of all time to a reboot. Maybe this won't kill him. Maybe he'll be okay. And maybe it'll even work. I doubt it but you never know. I've got many years ahead of me though. I'm If I let go of Superman now, it'll be for most of my life. So I'll stick with Man of Action even if this story arc isn't much good.

That's very nicely put, and sums up my own story.  There was no one thing that put me off DC comics.  Indeed I wonder if there really was anyone who stuck to his guns after declaring "that's it! I'm quitting!" in the wake of a single slight, however huge it may have seemed at the time.  Rather what drove me away was an accumulation of little things; my interest  died the death of a thousand cuts.  One day I just looked around and realized there was nothing left.  Actually I probably kept going as much as six months or so before it sank in.

Rao, that latest JLA image, ironically, is the first one yet to make the redesign look good to me.  It helps that Lee got his face right this time.  And if he looks young, he's not alone.  Batman looks like Bob Haney's "Batman Junior" character.

Yep, pretty much the same here; over the last couple of years, I seem to have lost my interest in comics almost entirely as a result of too much style over content - and not particularly attractive style, at that. I still drop by the shop every now and then, but I just feel overwhelmed by a tsunami of interchangeable, badly-drawn covers. Hey! I grew up!

I've largely ignored the Superman books since Busiek left, but I'll be buying the "Superman" and "Action Comics" titles of this reboot. I'm pleased to see they're also selling digital comics (though $3-$4 for a digital book's a ripoff IMO). I liked Morrison's Superman (and like Perez), so willing to give it a shot. That said, I do have some concerns about the reboot (summarized here: http://www.anthonynotes.com/2011/05/31/dc-announces-a-complete-continuity-reboot-again-post-flashpoint/ ).

the premise is stupid

but I'd like to see Morrison's early adventures of superman even though I hate the "early" adventures of anyone especially compared to their normal regular adventures (no offense superboy or Young Indiana Jones)

I'm kinda disappointed in Mr. Morrison. I've never always agreed with his beliefs or his approach to stories, but I've always thought he was a man who lived according to his own code. I get the feeling he has sold out.

While Dan DiDio might not understand the historical worth of DC, Morrison surely does. He should see that they are breaking faith with certain traditions.

Why would he allow his run to appear in a comic called Action Comics no. 1? He's never struck me as the ego-tripping type like Byrne or McFarlane who would need to have his own number 1 of a pre-existing title. And he has such schlep with DC that he could have easily said NO to that.

Aside from Legion, this is the one title that I am the most interested in reading--but I will never buy it, because of the numbering and the flagrant disregard for DC's history.

With just a few small changes, DC still could have had their relaunch AND retained the loyalty of old guard fans like me--who may be stick in the muds, but still want a good reason to continue buying DC. Even if they don't respect our futzy little concerns about tradition, they could have easily given us that, just to keep us in the family.

It's been so long since I was on this message board, or any message board for that matter, that I found myself looking for the "Like" button to register my approval of this post.

Oh please. Superman and Action comics are gonna be back to their original numbering scheme soon enough. Certainly in time for Action 1000, many many years away.

Jumping off because "they changed it, now it stinks" is a bad idea. These stories aren't going to be awful. Probably most of them will be good. I don't like that they changed the numbering, but I'm not going to boycott Morrison's run on Action and blame him for not leaving the numbering how it is! He probably never even considered that, and even if he did, I don't think it would matter. It would just make the company look inconsistent to reboot everything but Action Comics, and he probably understands that, and realizes that there is no way the history will just all be abandoned.
It'll be back to it's traditional numbering within ten years at the longest, probably much much sooner then that.
Until then, we'll probably get some decent stories, even if they don't involve the mythology we're used to.

I can wait for them to get back into it. Just ride the wave when it's good and roll with the punches when it's bad.  ;)

This is more of a "jumping-on" point for me than a "jumping off."  In one of the original announcements about this revamp (and note that DC has never called this a "reboot" - in fact, they've stated that it isn't a reboot), someone - possibly Jim Lee - invoked the memory of Byrne's "Man of Steel" mini-series and how excited he was back when it came out, that it was his own version of the character, he could start reading right at the beginning.  Although I later came to dislike the series, at the time I felt the same way.

I have no idea what "Blackest Night" or "New Krypton" is - and I don't want to know and I'm tired of seeing references to them.  I've forgotten "Infinite Crisis" and I have no idea what other mega-cross-over events have happened since.  I actually hope that this is a full-on reboot - so that I can just dive right in at the beginning of the story, know everything that's going on, and forget about Doomsday and all the stuff that's happened since - especially the last 5-10 years, which I have pretty much completely missed and have no interest in at all.

So I'm actually looking forward to it.  To those who dislike the idea - have you been reading Superman recently?  Do you have an attachment to the character that he currently is?  Do you even know his current origin?  I sure don't.

I have to confess there's nothing they could do at this point to bring me back, so I'm not going to lobby for anything, or lament anything. I don't have a vested interest either way.  I wish them luck with whatever it is they've got planned.

Morrison paid his dues back in the days he was forced to write mullet Superman and electric boogaloo Superman in JLA, and this is his chance to write -- indeed redefine -- the character the way he wants. He'd be crazy not to go for it. Love or hate the '86 reboot, people 20+ years on are still calling what we've got now the "Byrne Superman," and let's face it not many creators get a chance to make that big a dent in the character.  This is Morrison's shot.

Or look at it this way.  With "All-Star Superman," Morrison already racked up experience writing a Superman who started off with a #1 and lasted 12 issues.  This will just be a case of history repeating.

I'd rather read Superman written by Morrison
then read Morrison's Superman

if that makes any sense
 :)

It does.

Makes PERFECT sense and I agree 100%.

I've decided I'm going to only pick up Action, Superman, and Frankenstein from the new titles. I'm going to give the new \S/ titles a few months and go from there.

My expectations are higher for the Frankenstein, Agend of S.H.A.D.E book. What a shame to say that.

Is it so hard to make Superman, the first and best, the top title? The biggest seller and the must-read comic?