Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Superman Comic Books! => Infinite Crossover! => Topic started by: TriSaber on January 07, 2004, 11:01:46 AM



Title: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 07, 2004, 11:01:46 AM
I'm currently working on putting together a site that'll showcase my illustrative takes on the various versions of Superman and the characters that are directly related to him (which will include biographical material on each character). I've got most of the "canon" characters in my to-do list. Here they are:

1. Golden Age Superman (Earth-2)
2. Silver Age Superman (Earth-1)
3. Modern Age Superman (Post-Crisis)
4. Kingdom Come Superman
5. Superman 1,000,000
6. Supergirl (Kara Zor-El)
7. Supergirl (Matrix)
8. Supergirl (Linda Danvers)
9. Supergirl (Cir-El)
10. Supergirl 1,000,000
11. Superboy (Kal-El, Earth-1 Superman as a boy)
12. Superboy (Kon-El)
13. Superboy 1,000,000
14. Superwoman (Kristin Wells)
15. Power Girl (Pre-Crisis)
16. Power Girl (Post-Crisis)
17. Steel (John Henry Irons)
18. The Eradicator
19. Mon-El (Pre-Zero Hour Lar Gand)
20. M'onel (Post-Zero Hour Lar Gand)
21. Nightwing (Van-Zee)
22. Flamebird (Ak-Var)
23. Bizarro (Pre-Crisis)
24. Bizarro (Post-Crisis)
25. The Composite Superman
26. Anti-Superman (Perry White)
27. The Quarrmer (alias the "Sand Superman")
28. Ultraman (Pre-Crisis)
29. Ultraman (Post-Crisis)

What I need help on is how many Elseworlds versions of the "Superman Family" there were, and what they looked like. Any ideas, anyone? And should I include Wildstorm's Mr. Majestic since Wildstorm operates under DC's banner (especially in light of the Mr. Majestic story arc in the Superman titles)?


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Defender on January 07, 2004, 06:36:43 PM
Hm. . .off the top of my head, I can only think of a few of the characters from Superman/Batman: Generations.

 Let's see:

 Superboy/Superman (1920s through 30th century)

 Supergirl/Kara Kent (daughter of Clark and Lois)

 Nightwing (son of Joel Kent, adopted son of Batman II/Bruce Wayne Jr.)

 Don't forget Superman from the Red Son Elseworlds series, and there's also Speeding Bullets and Batman: In Darkest Knight to consider. Oh, and JLA: Age of Wonder is a great little series too. Superboy and the Legion, if for nothing else than the Superboy/Kal-El costumes. :p

 Does it show that I like Elseworlds? ;)

 -Def.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 07, 2004, 07:05:47 PM
Oh there's just so many you could drive yourself crazy trying to account for 'em all.

Like Earth 2/"golden age" Superboy (unofficial--but Superman was a boy in  More Fun and Adventure during the forties).

Many Superman look-alikes (including Gregory Reed--I would base his appearance on Christopher Reeve as Superman).

The Superman of the future (of 2965/66), and other future Supermen besides the 1,000,000 and Kingdom Come versions.

Hyperman--of Oceania, and Hyperman of Montreal (Kal-El in an imaginary story).

Other imaginary story Supermen--like Lex Luthor as Superman (and Clark as Batman).

Earth Prime Superboy.

Various imaginary and non-imaginary versions of Lois as Superwoman.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 07, 2004, 09:52:00 PM
This is terrific! Keep 'em coming while I'll investigate these. Incidentally, does anyone have a scan of Hyperman that they could provide for me? I'm also planning an illustration of (I guess it's techinically an early Elseworlds story since it's imaginary) Kal-El as the non-super-powered crimefighter called Nova.

By the way, thanks a lot. I plan to have my take on the Golden Age Superman done by the end of the week at the latest.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Dylan Clearbrook on January 08, 2004, 01:19:56 AM
Quote from: "TriSaber"
I'm currently working on putting together a site that'll showcase my illustrative takes on the various versions of Superman and the characters that are directly related to him (which will include biographical material on each character


Have you got a url set up yet or a host even?

Dylan


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 08, 2004, 10:58:07 AM
Quote from: "Dylan Clearbrook"
Quote from: "TriSaber"
I'm currently working on putting together a site that'll showcase my illustrative takes on the various versions of Superman and the characters that are directly related to him (which will include biographical material on each character


Have you got a url set up yet or a host even?

Dylan

Not yet. I've only started with this idea at the beginning of this week. Heh! I haven't even got the first illustration ready yet.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on January 08, 2004, 12:54:09 PM
Quote
Many Superman look-alikes (including Gregory Reed--I would base his appearance on Christopher Reeve as Superman).


Except that he pre-dates the Superman movie by several years.  So I'd make him look more like George Reeves.

Quote
Hyperman--of Oceania, and Hyperman of Montreal (Kal-El in an imaginary story).


Ah, Hyperman.  Whose fatal weakness is Ritalin.

You know, quite a few of these have been done already as "Micros" over at the Big Red S site.  You might want to check them out:

http://www.greatkrypton.com/superman/micro.php


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 08, 2004, 02:40:53 PM
Pressed for time I couldn't find pics for the Hypermen (I'll try later).  Oceania Hyperman has a magenta/purple and green and orange colour scheme but looks a lot like Superman (similar colour scheme to Nova, by the way).  While Montreal Hyperman is Kal-El in the usual super-suit but with a red H (his brother in Metropolis has the regular red S suit, but brown hair--see Superman first series no. 200).


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 08, 2004, 06:44:12 PM
Unfortunately I'm not  having luck finding Hyperman pics.

However, even though the GCD is down, if you know the code it's possible to pull cover pics.  So here's a pic for Superman of 2965 (when this was reprinted in the early seventies the date was changed to 2465)--

(http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/116/400/116_4_181.jpg)

The main difference is in the hair that swoops across his forehead (not easy to see from this profile shot) and a difference in the chin.


If I knew the code for Action Comics I could probably pull some other useful cover pics.


I said I would use Christopher Reeve's likeness for Gregory Reed, because even though George Reeves was the inspiration originally, I feel Chris is more appropriate given overall continuity.

In his first appearance Greg was drawn by Swan and Anderson.  And I've always felt the Swanderson version of Superman much resembles Christopher Reeve (by a stroke of sheer coincidence, since Reeve hadn't got the Superman part as yet in those days).   So Swan and Anderson drew Greg (in full make-up) to look just like Supes.

Before the Superman movie came to the screen, when Chris was announced as the new Superman in Amazing World of DC Comics they made sure to point out the striking resemblance between Chris and the Swan Superman.

Later in the seventies, when Greg was used (he had been miraculously restored to full health so he now indeed resembled Superman) it was clear that the writers were intending him to be the Earth 1 version of Christopher Reeve (or at least an amalgam of both Reeves and Reeve).


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 08, 2004, 07:46:43 PM
Also the concept of future Supermen (this time in the near future) was revisited in the early eighties--see the Starlin heads at the bottom of this cover from Superman 355:


(http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/116/200/116_2_355.jpg)

(that's "Superman of the Year 2020")


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 09, 2004, 09:14:30 AM
Thanks a lot, Nightwing and India Ink. These really help me out. I appreciate the time you folks took to give me a hand. And that goes for everybody else, too.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Kuuga on January 09, 2004, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: "Defender"

 Does it show that I like Elseworlds? ;)

 -Def.


I think Elseworlds is something whos full potential has yet to be realized. If the whole point is to offer up alternative version of famous DC charcters then why not use it to tell stories with the Golden or Silver Age Superman that are no longer part of mainline? Or maybe some stories set in the continuity of the radio show or the movies?

Something a bit more than just "what if", dark future,  "You've got your power ring in my Kryptonian physiology!" or Batman as a pirate stories.

For example, I was totally with Superboys Legion right up until someone got their hand chomped off and they had to do another fall of the superheroes thing with the backstory.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 09, 2004, 02:21:14 PM
>oops< Looks like those cover scans aren't showing up anymore--at least not on my computer screen.  Hope everyone got to see them before they disappeared.  You can also peruse (some of) these cover scans on Mike's Amazing World of DC Comics and the Mile High Comics internet store--it's just that I cant img them on the message board.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 09, 2004, 05:39:36 PM
All this discussion about the various versions of Superman is great, and it's helping me to keep my focus as I'm designing my site. However, I haven't seen anyone comment on my Mr. Majestic question yet. Any thoughts, anyone?

Oh yeah ... I'm forgetting the Kryptonoid from SUPERMAN #328-329.


Title: Golden Age Superman
Post by: TriSaber on January 09, 2004, 09:54:54 PM
Well, it's finally done. I present you with the very first in my new series of illustrations dedicated to the Superman Family. Here's my own personal take on the Golden Age Superman done in my own animated style. This one took a while because I was trying to decide what the definitive look for Kal-L was. Do I draw the triangular "S" emblem? Do I make him look more like the Superman of the Fleischer Animated serials? Do I make him look more like how he was portrayed in All-Star Squadron and prior to the Crisis on Infinite Earths? But I finally opted for patterning him after the 1940s painting (shown beside my illustration. Hope y'all like what ya see, and as usual comment is invited from everyone.

(http://www.wuji-web.com/uploads/post-34-05126-Superman__Golden_Age_.jpg)  (http://superman.nu/FanArt/moon0.jpg)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Dylan Clearbrook on January 09, 2004, 10:51:20 PM
You continue to amaze me, Tri :)

Looks fantastic.

(But I hope this doesn't delay the Legion too much  :wink: )

Dylan


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 09, 2004, 11:37:15 PM
wonderful!

You must take a look here : http://superman.nu/Costumes/


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Defender on January 09, 2004, 11:39:32 PM
Dylan, you've got Legion on the brain. ;)

 Impressive pic Tri, as always. As to your Mr. Majestic query, I say go for it. You could even have a little homage to Superman's "dopplegangers" in various non-DC titles. Hyperion from Squadron Supreme, Majestic, Supreme, Captain Marvel/Shazam. . .the works. :)

 -Def.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 09, 2004, 11:47:59 PM
Here is another great site for ideas! http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/asimov/20/anuales.html

oh, and don't forget to draw Super Monkey  :P


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Dylan Clearbrook on January 10, 2004, 12:09:22 AM
Quote from: "Defender"
Dylan, you've got Legion on the brain. ;)

 -Def.


Sigh..... Guilty as charged :)

Dylan


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Klar Ken T5477 on January 10, 2004, 01:33:49 AM
Hey dont forget me- the Superman of the 30th Century who has no time for those teen age LSH whelps--Im just like the Superman of 1965 except sea water makes me hurl and I have bangs and a less pronounced jaw.

There's a computer I work for who's meaner than Perry White and I battle Muto, he of the big yellow head, who was born in a dimensional rift.

Yeah okay I love the 30th century and the LSH myself, Tri - but couldnt you do them in Silver Age garb.  What's Lightning Lad without a cape and metal arm?  Oh, Starfinger that's right. :wink:


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on January 10, 2004, 02:15:35 PM
Awesome GA Superman, Tri-Saber!  

Yes, there were a lot of "S" designs to choose from in the Golden Age, but I'm not sure this was one of them (!).  It was, however, used in Ward's painting as you say, and starting with that wedding issue in Action Comics, it was consistently the "S" assigned to "Earth-2" Superman, as seen in the "Mr and Mrs Superman" feature, at least one JLA/JSA crossover and the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

So while it probably rules as the most-often used "S" for GA Superman, ironically it may never have actually appeared on his chest in the Golden Age (!?).

Anyway the important thing is it looks terrific.  And while I like the Legion, I hope you'll continue to create these other Supermen for us to see.  It's great stuff!


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 11, 2004, 01:40:47 AM
I've been doing some thinking about what you wrote, Nightwing ... and I've come to the conclusion that you have a valid point. I want to have my version be as close as possible to the Golden Age Superman that actually appeared in the Golden Age. This, plus my first look at the Superman & Batman: Generations 2 trade paperback where John Byrne drew the Golden Age Superman with the triangular "S" emblem, convinced me to rework my interpretation of the Golden Age Superman and replace the "Earth-2" emblem with the triangular crest of the early Siegal/Shuster days. Plus, I've abandoned the Wayne Boring art style in favor of my own, and made much more use of gradient shading to bring the figure out more. I think this version of Supes looks more "Golden Age" than the previous one. Opinions, everyone?

(http://www.wuji-web.com/uploads/post-34-02781-Golden_Age_Superman.jpg)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Defender on January 11, 2004, 03:50:03 AM
Good stuff Tri. The piece has a lot more definition, this Superman has the Golden Age sensibility combined with modern cool. I like.

 -Def.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 11, 2004, 12:26:56 PM
Beautiful work once again!

You can edit the other one to make him into the Earth-2 Superman.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Kuuga on January 11, 2004, 10:35:26 PM
Or better yet, make his eyes squinty and put the Fliesher \S/ on him!  :D


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on January 12, 2004, 07:53:31 AM
Quote
Or better yet, make his eyes squinty and put the Fliesher \S/ on him!


I was trying to figure out what was nagging at me, and I think this is it.  I think of GA Superman as having a perpetual grin and squinty eyes.  This image, he looks a lot more PO'd.

Which is not to say he never got mad in the old days, mind you.  This image works as a "I just broke down your door, and now you're gonna get it, Nazis!" as opposed to "here I am being Superman for the cameras."

The darker colors, especially on the trunks, are a nice touch.  And now you have TWO Superman for your collection...GA Supes and Earth-2 Supes.

Now you just need to do me a "Superman as Nightwing" and we'll both be happy. :-)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 12, 2004, 10:14:12 AM
Hows about my take on Superman from the Elseworlds Story "The Once and Future League" published in JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA ANNUAL #8 (1994)? Plus, a bit of a revamp on my original Golden Age Superman. Coming up soon.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 12, 2004, 04:56:10 PM
That's all well and good, but he must do all of our Superman related namesakes, well maybe not brainaic ;)  :P


Title: Superman: The Once and Future League
Post by: TriSaber on January 14, 2004, 11:58:13 PM
And here he is folks. I present you with the first Elseworlds Superman rendition. His name is Perry Ross, and through genetic engineering he's assumed the role of the Man of Tomorrow in a future Justice League that will save the world from the tyranny of the evil Felix Faust: Superman: The Once and Future League from JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA ANNUAL #8.

(http://www.wuji-web.com/uploads/post-34-13521-Superman__Once_and_Future_League_.jpg)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 15, 2004, 11:39:02 AM
I have no idea who that is, but the art is great, I think that your style fits the spirit of Superman perfectly. How is your website coming along?


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 15, 2004, 10:19:44 PM
Quote from: "Super Monkey"
I have no idea who that is, but the art is great, I think that your style fits the spirit of Superman perfectly. How is your website coming along?

Well, I'm just fleshing out how the page layout is going to work, where the images will go (and what size they'll be), what categories I'm going to have, and so on. I think I've got the final look of what the pages will look like, and right now I'm in the process of piecing a couple of them together to see how well they'll work.

More to come. Stay tuned!


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: WILL_GILLIES on January 20, 2004, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: "India Ink"
Oh there's just so many you could drive yourself crazy trying to account for 'em all.

Like Earth 2/"golden age" Superboy (unofficial--but Superman was a boy in  More Fun and Adventure during the forties).

Wouldn't that just be the Silver Age Superman as a boy?

Whilst the Golden Age Superman was in Action Comics,Superman,his younger Earth 1 Counterpart was in More Fun.

remember there was No Earth 2 Superboy except in a story where Superboy of Earth 1 meets the young Earth2 Clark Kent.


Title: Supergirl (Cir-El)
Post by: TriSaber on January 20, 2004, 03:37:50 PM
And now for the latest in the Superman Multiverse series. She made her first appearance in SUPERMAN: THE 10-CENT ADVENTURE, and she claims to be the daughter of the Man of Steel and Lois Lane from the future. Love her or hate her, here she is ... Cir-El.

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/Supergirl_Cir-El.jpg)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Kuuga on January 20, 2004, 04:08:02 PM
Sorry man. Not even your talent and care can save that design.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 20, 2004, 09:04:35 PM
I hope she dies soon.

At least you tried, but Da Vinci could draw her and it would still be terrible.


Title: Re: Supergirl (Cir-El)
Post by: Dylan Clearbrook on January 20, 2004, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: "TriSaber"
And now for the latest in the Superman Multiverse series. She made her first appearance in SUPERMAN: THE 10-CENT ADVENTURE, and she claims to be the daughter of the Man of Steel and Lois Lane from the future. Love her or hate her, here she is ... Cir-El.



I would be one of those that hate her :)  And thank you for putting her HERE instead of the Supergirl forum :)

That said.    The art work is still fantastic, Tri!.  Good work.

Oh...and Super Monkey...she IS dead :)  Cir-El is no more :)

 (At least that is what I am being given to understand)
Dylan


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 21, 2004, 04:57:37 PM
Quote from: "WILL_GILLIES"
Quote from: "India Ink"
Oh there's just so many you could drive yourself crazy trying to account for 'em all.

Like Earth 2/"golden age" Superboy (unofficial--but Superman was a boy in  More Fun and Adventure during the forties).


Wouldn't that just be the Silver Age Superman as a boy?

Whilst the Golden Age Superman was in Action Comics,Superman,his younger Earth 1 Counterpart was in More Fun.

remember there was No Earth 2 Superboy except in a story where Superboy of Earth 1 meets the young Earth2 Clark Kent.


I had hoped that I would get support from Mike's Amazing World of DC Comics (www.dcindexes.com), but his site not only supports Will's view, it develops it into a rigid scheme that reinterprets those 1940s stories as if they were set on Earth 1--overlaying the continuity of a later date onto these stories and ignoring contrary continuity as anomalies.

This tortures logic.  Of course these stories were published in the 40s and are therefore "golden age" in the true sense  that we usually intend that term.  And of course these stories weren't set on Earth 1.  Because the concept of Earth 1 didn't exist until the sixties.

Anyone can force a retroactive continuity onto these stories if they want, but we have to be honest and admit that's what we're doing.  So I can say these stories occurred on Earth 1, or Earth 2, or Earth B--but in doing so I'm making retroactive judgements based on later stories, and not based in fact.

There was only one Superman in the minds of the readers at the time, and the stories (on the covers of Adventure Comics) were advertised as stories of SUPERMAN when he was a boy.  Therefore the boy presented to the reader is intended as the junior version of Superman (in the "golden age"--who we now identify with the Earth 2 Superman).  And he's wearing the current costume of that Superman (with the differently styled red 'S').

Will is right, being as his assertions are based on later fan judgements about retroactive continuity (ie. this must be Earth 1 Clark Kent as a boy, because Earth 2 Clark Kent was never supposed to have been Superboy).  But I'm also right as I'm using entirely different criteria.

My main point stands as this version of Superboy looks different from the usual George Papp/Curt Swan styled version--he's younger (about eight or ten, I'd say) and therefore shorter, and he has a different style 'S' emblem--so that should be enough to qualify him for treatment by TriSaber if he so chooses.  Which was what I meant.

Given anomalies of continuity have been used to retroactively establish alternate Earth versions of characters, there are enough anomalies between this Superboy and the later Earth 1 Superboy to suggest at least that this could be another alternate version of Superboy.

The other day I was reading an early sixties Legion story where Chameleon Boy was shown meeting with an alternate universe version of himself, so if that existed in Legion continuity even back then, then it's possible Superboy had alternate versions of himself, as well.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: RedSunOfKrypton on January 21, 2004, 05:47:41 PM
I'd like to learn more about Perry Ross, the Genetic Superman. Anyone know where I could find synopses for that comic or actually buy an issue online? Great artwork by the way, I can't wait till you get your page up. :D


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 22, 2004, 12:03:18 AM
Thanks, folks. I appreciate the compliment on my work. I tried my best with Cir-El ... even though I agree with most people that, after having learned more about her background, I think she's one el lame-o character.

And, RedSun, here's an excerpt from the bio I wrote on Perry Ross. In a nutshell, it goes something like this:

In an alternate reality separate from the current mainstream universe, five key members of the Justice League of America Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash and Green Lantern were killed when the malevolent wizard Felix Faust unleased the power of the demons Abnegazar, Rath and Gast in a cataclysmic explosion. The only survivor was J'onn J'onzz, alias the Martian Manhunter. While Faust succeeded in conquering Earth, J'onzz began a secret resistance movement known as the Children of Justice disguised as an aged scientist named Dr. Martin Jonas. During this time, J'onzz launched a plan in which a new Justice League would be created by means of metagene experimentation. One of the six volunteers was Perry Ross, who manifested powers similar to those of the original Superman and was considered to be the most successful of this new team of metahumans. Each of these individuals were given variations of the uniforms worn by the long deceased members of the original JLA, and Ross assumed the identity of Superman. The purpose of this new Justice League was to foster unrest in the hope that Earth's general population would revolt against Faust's totalitarian rule. However, Faust had secretly discovered the Children of Justice's metahuman testing program, and he convinced Ross to sabotage the League's missions so that they could become the victims of negative publicity by promising Ross fame and the adoration of the masses. Ross found it extremely difficult to live up to the original Superman's heroic ideals, but still desired to be a hero at any cost. During a mission to rescue two prominent Children of Justice members, Superman finally turned on the rest of the JLA and led them into a trap where they would be killed by the same mystic spell that Faust used to destroy the original JLA. However, the spell backfired due to the intervention of the original JLA's spirits, and both Faust and Ross became trapped in an otherdimensional netherworld with apparently no hope of escape. Now finally free of Faust's spell, the souls of the original League members went to their final reward, and J'onzz and the new JLA set about the task of rebuilding their world.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on January 22, 2004, 06:27:59 AM
Re:  Earth-2 Superboy

Aside from the fact that he isn't featured in the first origin -- or the one or two brief re-tellings in the Golden Age -- how do we know for sure there wasn't a Superboy on Earth-2?  I mean, did Earth-2 Superman ever come right out and SAY "I never operated as a SuperBOY."?

Keep in mind that GA Superman and Earth-2 Superman aren't necessarily the same man.  In fact, they can't be.  For one thing, Earth-2 Clark spends his entire professional career at the Daily Star (first as reporter, later as editor) and never works for Perry White.  And yet the GA Superman clearly worked at the Planet under Perry.  So we seem to be looking at two different lives here.

Anyway, the only down side of the whole "Multiple Earths" concept was that it was the beginning of the notion that every inconsistency can somehow be explained away.  What that's given us is continuity freaks like the one over on the DC boards now yelling at Darwyn Cooke for his "New Frontier" book. ("You're destroying continuity!  All non-continuity books must show the 'Elseworlds' imprint! How do you sleep at night?" Yadda yadda.)  Too bad we've grown so "sophisticated" that we can't simply enjoy a good story for what it is, instead of judging how well it fits with all the others ever told.

Those old Superboy tales will just have to exist in some paradoxical other dimension, I guess, but so what?  Strictly speaking, so will every GA Superman story after that very early Action where he's suddenly working for the Planet.


Re: Cir-El

I don't like her, either, though the picture's nice enough.  Now that I see her drawn by a real artist instead of the psychotic monkeys at DC, I realize her costume is stolen, lock, stock and barrell, from the Earth-3 Superwoman.  Did it turn out to be her child?


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 22, 2004, 05:51:57 PM
Although the multiple Earths concept can be a lot of fun, I sometimes think it's been more trouble than it's worth.  Every time DC tries to explain a differentiation in continuity they invite a storm of fan criticism.

Yet Disney has never bothered to explain why there are so many alternate versions of Mickey Mouse.  Nor has Warner Brothers engaged in positing alternate realities for Bugs Bunny in all his forms.  And fans somehow accept this--miracle of miracles.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 22, 2004, 08:44:00 PM
Quote from: "India Ink"
Yet Disney has never bothered to explain why there are so many alternate versions of Mickey Mouse.  Nor has Warner Brothers engaged in positing alternate realities for Bugs Bunny in all his forms.  And fans somehow accept this--miracle of miracles.


Go figure! I guess DC didn't think we were as smart as your average Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny fan. :shock:  :wink:


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 22, 2004, 11:53:36 PM
Personally, I thought it was fun to have two Earths, with Earth-1 being the home of the Silver Age heroes (eg. the JLA), and Earth-2 being the home of the Golden Age Heroes (eg. the JSA). I loved the fact that the Earth-1 Superman could interact with his Golden Age counterpart, as well as the Golden and Silver age versions of the Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Wonder Woman and so on. The only real disappointment was that the two versions of Batman couldn't interact because the Golden Age Batman died while the Earth-1 Batman lived on. When the Crisis happened, I felt that something was lost in this respect, and I miss those days when JLA/JSA team-ups were major annual events that I always looked forward to. I even remember one occasion when we saw three generations of super-hero teams join forces (namely the JSA, the JLA and the Legion of Super-Heroes)!


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: RedSunOfKrypton on January 23, 2004, 12:55:44 AM
Thanks for the synopses, it was well written. Peace.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: KryptoniteKills on January 23, 2004, 01:15:50 AM
Quote from: "India Ink"
Although the multiple Earths concept can be a lot of fun, I sometimes think it's been more trouble than it's worth.  Every time DC tries to explain a differentiation in continuity they invite a storm of fan criticism.

Yet Disney has never bothered to explain why there are so many alternate versions of Mickey Mouse.  Nor has Warner Brothers engaged in positing alternate realities for Bugs Bunny in all his forms.  And fans somehow accept this--miracle of miracles.


You are comparing apples and oranges here.  Mickey mouse and Bugs Bunny are slapstick cartoon characters.  Their stories barely makes sense by themselves and they aren't really supposed to.  They are just an excuse for a series of surreal gags.  

Superman is a bit different.  Yes he is a fantasy character, and his stories aren't serious in the sense that say,  "Requiem for a Dream" is;  But the audeince is more interested in seeing how Supes foils Luthors plan than having a few yuks.  This sort of storytelling requires a bit more logic than an old school toon.  Also note that comics are a serial medium, so intuition tells us that what happened in issue #65 occured before issue #73.

Can such continuity ever be perfect?  No.  And no one should expect it to be.  Nor should fans obsess over petty details.  But some basic consistency is required for a story to make sense, and adding explanations for more innocuous inconsistencies can add more depth to a fantasy world, and is just generally fun.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Aldous on January 23, 2004, 01:34:13 AM
Quote
nightwing:

Anyway, the only down side of the whole "Multiple Earths" concept was that it was the beginning of the notion that every inconsistency can somehow be explained away.


I suppose you're right. But the problem, to be more specific, was brought to my attention by a comment of India's:

Quote
India Ink:

Every time DC tries to explain....


The company never used to explain things, or "explain away" things. Why did they ever feel they needed to start?

Now, my favourite version of Superman is O'Neil's from the "Sand-Superman" saga. But, is he the same Superman from other stories I love? Is he the same Superman as the one from "Superman's Day of Truth"? "The Super-Prisoner of Amazon Island"? The deformed Superman from "Love is Blind"? The Superman who lost his powers in "Who Took the Super Out of Superman"?

The answer is, for me, yes, it's all the same Superman. Call him the Earth One Superman if you like, and I'm OK with that. But to me he's just Superman. I don't need anyone to try to explain away the perceived differences in the character, especially not the company. I couldn't care less. I love each and every story on its own merits.

The continuity for me is that it's all Superman.

Quote
India Ink:

....it develops it into a rigid scheme that reinterprets those 1940s stories as if they were set on Earth 1--overlaying the continuity of a later date onto these stories and ignoring contrary continuity as anomalies.

This tortures logic.


It does.

Your "retroactive continuity" tells us the Golden Age Superboy must have been Earth One Superman as a boy, but this is best left as the private thoughts of random readers, or a subject for discussion between enthusiasts. I'm probably with you, in that I could read a Golden Age Superboy story and have no desire whatsoever to try to fit it into the Earth One chronology of DC's long and amazing history. I can just take it for what it is, a little gem of a story that lives or dies on its own merits, and -- I'm not sure how to put this -- my mind is firmly in the Golden Age as I read it.

The mistakes come in, I feel, when the company tries to explain things. They will never get it right and they should stop trying to get it right. Let the fans argue. That's part of the silliness of being a fan of anything.

The company could concentrate on delivering great stories. NOT on creating thin, multiple-issue episodes that owe greatly to the past and also to the future -- doubly in debt -- but on rich, satisfying stories that stand on their own merits. And this may leave the reader with a genuine and long-term desire to purchase further stories. It's like a good, hearty meal versus a junk food meal. On the one hand you may have free range roast chicken (cooked by your wife), carrots, peas, roast potatoes, and gravy -- and on the other hand you will have a franchise burger, french fries, a big Coke, a plastic-wrapped, microwave-heated dessert bar, and a little plastic tub of potato made by mixing hot water with dehydrated flakes. Now, one meal will satisfy you for the entire evening and make you feel great; the other meal will fill your guts, but not for long, and you will want another the same in maybe two or three hours, and you will feel a little "off" into the bargain, as if you missed out on something.

Now, there is a logic some may see, that says hook the customer into the cheap, greasy, sugar-rush meal, because, before you know it, he'll be back for more. And that's true. But is he a "satisfied customer"? I don't think so. I think he's coming back because he's a dissatisfied customer, only he doesn't know it. And does this produce those winning comic book sales figures? The evidence says no. Why? Because there just aren't enough people who are addicted to junk.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on January 23, 2004, 09:16:11 AM
Kryptonite Kills writes:

Quote
You are comparing apples and oranges here. Mickey mouse and Bugs Bunny are slapstick cartoon characters. Their stories barely makes sense by themselves and they aren't really supposed to. They are just an excuse for a series of surreal gags.


Well, let's take an example that may be more relevant.  In "Star Trek," we started with "Klingons" who looked like swarthy humans with greasy mustaches. In the movies and the spin-offs, "Klingons" became more "creature-like," with teeth like dogs and bony ridges coming down their foreheads.  Roddenberry's answer to this discrepancy was that the new look is how Klingons "always" looked, only in the 60s they didn't have the money to do it right! :-)  In an episode of Deep Space 9, Worf (a "new" Klingon) interacts with old-school Klingons and someone asks why they look so different.  Worf's answer: "That is something we prefer not to talk about!" :-)

Keep in mind this is Star Trek, a franchise with arguably the most devoted and detail-obsessed fan base in the world, and Roddenberry and Worf toss off "answers" that offer little more than a shrug and a wink.  And the fans -- as far as I know -- are okay with it!

This is the kind of "continuity" we need in comics; we need to see an honest effort being made to keep characters and the DCU consistent, but when some little thing doesn't add up, we should be big enough to shrug it off and not let it ruin a good story.  Especially if that discrepancy was committed decades ago by writers who couldn't very well follow rules that didn't exist yet!

Quote
Can such continuity ever be perfect? No. And no one should expect it to be. Nor should fans obsess over petty details. But some basic consistency is required for a story to make sense, and adding explanations for more innocuous inconsistencies can add more depth to a fantasy world, and is just generally fun.


Exactly.  What made the early "Earth-2" stories fun was that no one ever expected those inconsistencies to be explained, and yet Julie and company found ways to do it.  In fact, prior to "Flash of Two Worlds," Showcase #4 seems to be giving us a very different answer, saying in essence, "whatever you might have read about another guy named 'The Flash' was all make-believe.  The Barry Allen model is real."  Watching Julie Schwartz and his writers find ways not only to connect the dots between Golden Age and Silver, but even to make that previous "explanation" (from Showcase) fit in as well, must have been a true joy for readers who were lucky enough to live through both eras.  Being a bit younger, the closest I came was "All-Star Squadron," in which Roy Thomas tied up loose threads and closed gaps in logic that had been hanging around for over 50 years!  

That being said, not everything could be explained by the multiple Earths theory, and in some cases the "solution" created a new set of inconsistencies.


Aldous writes:

Quote
The answer is, for me, yes, it's all the same Superman. Call him the Earth One Superman if you like, and I'm OK with that. But to me he's just Superman. I don't need anyone to try to explain away the perceived differences in the character, especially not the company. I couldn't care less. I love each and every story on its own merits.


Well, I don't love them all! :-)  Another benefit of your approach (which is my own) is that when a bad story does come up, you can just reject it.  A good example is "The Master Mesmerizer of Metropolis." I have no doubt DC meant it as THE answer to the secret identity issue, but when readers rejected it, it was forgotten.  Similarly any other story I read where I didn't think Superman was "in character," I just rejected it as apocrypha.  When "continuity" becomes oppressive is when it forces us to accept changes whether they work or not.  And that happened a lot when the super-titles were joined together, and every storyline led directly into every other one.  I reserve the right to reject Executioner Superman and President Luthor just as I rejected Clark's hypnotic glasses.  





[/quote]


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: India Ink on January 23, 2004, 03:08:23 PM
For me too, in essence, they're all the same Superman (and all the same Batman).

In the sixties, the comics seemed to negotiate between the Scylla and the Charybdis of the mutliverse and the one universe.

Most of the time, one assumed that we were in a strict universe where the character was totally set in a distinct continuity--but other times we understood that we had shifted context to this multiverse.  And the editors did a good job of signalling this to us, without resorting to drawn out explanations about why this was so.

I grant that Bugs Bunny was always in it for the laugh, but I don't see that much difference between Bugs and the old Supes (Supes wasn't usually in it for the laugh, but he would go for the grand spectacle).

"What's Opera Doc," however, isn't just a yuk-yuk cartoon.  I could watch and have watched that episode again and again and never entirely explore all its depths.  This is Bugs, but it isn't Bugs.  Bugs is a contemporary bunny in a world of skyscrapers, jackhammers, and rocket launch pads, yet here he is in an ancient mythic Teutonic setting.  How does this happen?  Some Bugs cartoons tell us that he's an actor for the Warner Brothers studios, and he and his repertory company put on these shows for the viewer--so are these episodes staged events or are they real--or is the idea of Bugs as actor itself a conceit?

It's fun to think about these things--even if I often was driven nearly mad by thinking about them when I was a kid--but I'm glad WB never made it clear what was supposed to be "real" and what wasn't.  I was left to compartmentalize these different types of Bugs cartoons, and I could accept all of them as being equally important to the "continuity" of the character.

I grant that Superman isn't usually played this way.  But I admit I sometimes wish he was.  I think that's what Schwartz was trying to go for in the Action Comics just before Crisis--especially stories like where Supes met "Asterisk" (or a version of the same).


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Aldous on January 24, 2004, 12:07:49 AM
I wondered about your previous "opera" comment, India, and now I know what you meant.

Quote
India Ink:

Some Bugs cartoons tell us that he's an actor for the Warner Brothers studios, and he and his repertory company put on these shows for the viewer....


I love this angle on Bugs. But it's not unique to Warner Brothers. This was also (sometimes) Mickey's angle, if I remember rightly.

Mickey's "adventures" were not consistent with any particular continuity. He was an "actor" for Disney. One storyline could see him as the captain of a boat, the next as a crusading newspaper editor, in yet another as the civilian assistant and investigative drive behind O'Hara, Chief of Police. In some adventures he was a daring aeroplane pilot...

Even Goofy was an actor, really. I have a healthy collection of SUPER GOOF, a real childhood favourite of mine -- yet, when convenient, in many stories Goofy was just plain ol' Goofy.

Quote
India Ink:

It's fun to think about these things--even if I often was driven nearly mad by thinking about them when I was a kid--but I'm glad WB never made it clear what was supposed to be "real" and what wasn't. I was left to compartmentalize these different types of Bugs cartoons, and I could accept all of them as being equally important to the "continuity" of the character.


I couldn't agree more!

Now, Superman isn't a Warner Brothers cartoon ( :shock: waitaminute!), but of all the super heroes, he more than any other lends himself to a little flexibility when it comes to "continuity". He is the first, the best, the longest-lived, the most famous, and the archetype for the whole super hero bunch. Think of all the eras in which he has been top dog. Part of his success is his flexibility. And this also requires a little flexibility from his readers.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 25, 2004, 01:01:45 AM
Have you guys seen this website?

http://www.geocities.com/the5earths/home.htm

Quote
At the end of the Crisis on Infinite Earths the last remaining Earths were merged into one and became the present-day DC Comics Universe. However...
...what if...

...the five surviving Earths no longer remained merged at the end of the Crisis but continued on, independent of each other?

What would they be like...?

Welcome to The Five Earths Project



Also more Earth-2 Superman Fun :

http://westwood.fortunecity.com/mcqueen/309/the_superman_of_earth-2_tribute.html


Earth-3 evil delights :

http://m.homestead.com/csa.html

http://blaklion.best.vwh.net/timeline3.html


Title: Silver Age Superman
Post by: TriSaber on January 26, 2004, 09:34:23 AM
Those sites are great ... especially the one about the Crime Syndicate of America (including Supes' evil counterpart Ultraman).

Here's the latest offering. In his secret identity as mild-mannered Clark Kent, he's an ace reporter for Perry White and the Daily Planet, and the main anchorman for Morgan Edge's WGBS Television News. But he also battles evil all over the world ... and beyond ... as the Silver Age Superman.

In this piece, I tried to go for more of a Curt Swan look, since he's the artist who's most associated with Superman's Silver Age run (just as I based my Golden Age Superman on Wayne Boring's style).

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/Superman_Silver_.jpg)


Title: Superman Imagery Class Part I: Pencil Sketching
Post by: TriSaber on January 31, 2004, 07:35:09 AM
Here's the first part of my little tutorial on how I create my illustrations. Since I wasn't really 100% happy with my first Silver Age Superman pic, I think redoing SA Supes would provide the perfect opportunity to kick off the lesson. First of all, I sketch each one individually in pencil on my handy-dandy sketch pad. I've always done this with my illustrations ... otherwise I feel I don't get the proportions or the look that I want. Plus, I'm a traditionalist and I'll never abandon manual illustration.

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/sa_supes_sketch.jpg)

Next: Inking


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on January 31, 2004, 09:10:43 AM
Stop right there! And mail me this sketch.  It's perfect already!

 :love:


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on January 31, 2004, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: "nightwing"
Stop right there! And mail me this sketch.  It's perfect already!

 :love:
Hold on ... I'm not exactly sure about this ... but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess ... you like it.  :lol:

But seriously, I'm glad you do. Stay tuned to see how it develops.  :wink:


Title: Super-Tutorial Part II: Inking
Post by: TriSaber on January 31, 2004, 06:25:49 PM
Once the pencil sketch is complete, I scan the drawing into a vector-based drawing program like CorelDRAW or Adobe Illustrator (my personal preference is CorelDRAW). I then use the path tool (called a Beizer Tool in CorelDRAW) to digitally ink over the pencil sketch and fix certain miniscule imperfections in the sketch that I deem worthy of repair ... like maybe I might not like the size of his hands, his head, or his emblem. Or maybe I might want to add or eliminate a few lines as I see fit. The advantage of doing this in a program like CorelDRAW or Illustrator is that in a vector-based drawing one can reduce or enlarge a drawing or parts thereof without losing any resolution whatsoever. It also allows the line work to be crisp and clear (if you're wondering why the emblem is black, that'll be made clear in the next installment).

For the record, Coreldraw defines a vector graphic as an image generated from mathematical descriptions that determine the position, length, and direction in which lines are drawn. Vector graphics are created as collections of lines rather than as patterns of individual dots or pixels.

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/SA_Supes_Inked.jpg)

Next: Applying Base Colours


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on January 31, 2004, 06:40:46 PM
(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/sa_supes_sketch.jpg)(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/SA_Supes_Inked.jpg)

Maybe it's just me but I like the pencil version much better, it just has more fine detail that has been lost in the digital version. Have you tried hand inking it then scanning it or just coloring the pencils with Photo shop like Disney does it?


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on January 31, 2004, 10:02:33 PM
I have to agree with SuperMonkey...I love those pencils!

I totally understand where you're going, though, TriSaber.  You're doing these "animation" style and that means the less lines, the better. But it's almost painful to see those subtle, delicate pencils give way to something so comparatively minimalist.  And I know in your next step you'll re-introduce depth and dimension with colors, but still...

Just for my own amusement, and SuperMonkey's, I played with your pencil image in Photoshop and got some so-so results:

(http://nightwing.supermanfan.net/images/sa_supes_alt-inks.jpg)

Of course, this is more "comic" style and not so much "animation" style.  And it's not as pretty as what could be done with a real brush.

But man, you need to be doing real comics!  You're head and shoulders over the dolts DC's had on the super-books for years now.

BTW, just noticed you're from Nova Scotia, one of my fave places ever (my wife and I honeymooned there).  But while I enjoyed Halifax, Baddeck, Lunenburg, Antigonish, Cheticamp, Peggy's Cove and Sydney, I can't believe I missed Kryptonopolis!!  That's what I get for trusting my wife when she said there was nothing notable south of Pictou! :-)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on February 02, 2004, 10:53:46 AM
Quote from: "nightwing"
the dolts DC's had on the super-books for years now.

BTW, just noticed you're from Nova Scotia, one of my fave places ever (my wife and I honeymooned there).  But while I enjoyed Halifax, Baddeck, Lunenburg, Antigonish, Cheticamp, Peggy's Cove and Sydney, I can't believe I missed Kryptonopolis!!  That's what I get for trusting my wife when she said there was nothing notable south of Pictou! :-)

LOL! Yep. A lot of people seem to blow right by Kryptonopolis during their travels through my home province here in Canada. Many a tourism support group has tried to lobby for the provinical government to recognize Kryptonopolis as an official heritage site and get it included in all the tourism literature, but to no avail. *Sigh*

In reality, Halifax itself is my home town. I like to call it Kryptonopolis because many of my friends seem to think I look like the Pre-Crisis Superman as drawn by Wayne Boring (especially when I crop my hair really short).  :roll:  :lol:

But you and Super Monkey bring up an interesting point that I failed to explain. As for why I chose a more "straight-lined" animated approach rather than the traditional inking techniques used in comics, the answer is simple. I really want the colouring to do all the "talking" when it comes to "fleshing out" the character and giving him/her more definition. Just take a look at the artwork in the current Superman: Birthright miniseries to see what I'm talking about. You'll see how it unfolds in the next few installments of my tutorial.

And speaking of Birthright, do you guys think I should make the Birthright Superman a distinctly different version than, say, the Post-Crisis Superman? This means we'd have four major versions of the Man of Steel as follows by my reckoning:

1. Golden Age Superman
2. Silver Age (Pre-Crisis) Superman
3. Modern Age (Post-Crisis) Superman
4. Birthright Superman

Lemme know what you think.


Title: Super-Tutorial Part III: Applying Base Colours
Post by: TriSaber on February 03, 2004, 12:56:18 PM
Once the sketch has been inked over in Coreldraw, I drop the imported sketch image and export the whole thing as an Adobe Photoshop PSD file. Customarily, I set the resolution of the image to be exported at 400dpi so the resolution can be nice and high. Once in Photoshop, I select all the black lines and areas with Photoshop's Magic Wand tool and place them on a separate layer to make it easier to colour. It's important to note that I export the emblem as a separate graphic so I can import it into the main Photoshop image as a separate layer in order to have it outline-free. This is why the emblem is black in the Coreldraw file. Just to make sure that the lines are crisp and black, I adjust the Brightness and Contrast of the lineart layer as low as it can go. I also remove any white pixels that may have gotten caught up in the selection of the black line areas, too. I do this by using the "Remove White Matte" command, which is off the Matting option in Photoshop's Layer Menu. Trust me ... this is a lot easier than it seems. Once that's done, I create a layer for the base colours, and use the Magic Wand tool to select the areas that I want to fill with whatever colour I choose. The result of all this should look like what you see in the image shown below.

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/sa_supes_base_co.jpg)

Next: Shadows


Title: now it can be found
Post by: India Ink on February 06, 2004, 07:21:26 PM
As Super Monkey noted on "Who's Who"--a lot of characters can be found on that site.  So here's Chester King/Hyperman--

(http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/superwhoswho/hyperman-act265.JPG)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on February 07, 2004, 08:16:49 AM
Yup ... that sites' a veritable treasure-trove of material for my site. I can't thank him enough for finding it!


Title: For Julius Schwartz
Post by: TriSaber on February 08, 2004, 10:36:19 PM
I was going to put off posting this image until the end of my little online tutorial. But in light of Julius Schwartz's passing, I decided to forego the delay and post it in his honor. I give you the Pre-Crisis Superman that we all knew and loved.

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/Superman_Pre-Cri.jpg)

For you, Mr. Schwartz ... and for Curt Swan, too.  :cry:


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on February 09, 2004, 06:13:33 AM
Great coloring on that pic, it looks fantastic.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: lastkryptonianhere on February 09, 2004, 07:15:07 AM
Superboy once met Mighty Boy - a boy from Earth whose family saved him from certain death due to a tidal wave on the tropical island they lived on (by shooting him into outer space no less).  On a distant planet Mighty Boy would develop super human powers and along with mighty dog they fought for justice.  The two became super pals but it turned out that due to the conditions of the planets solar system Superboy was actually "red kryptonite" for Mighty Boy - thus the two could not share adventures or be super playmates together.  Story was first printed in Superboy #85 and later reprinted in one of the Superman Giant Annuals in the early 1960's (which is where I found the story)

(http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/superwhoswho/MightyBoy-Superboy85.JPG)

Thanks to the Superman Who's Who page for the picture.  That is one awesome site[/url]


Title: The Golden Age Superman Revisited
Post by: TriSaber on February 16, 2004, 08:37:14 AM
And here's a re-do of the Golden Age Superman with a few improvements over the old. I wasn't really happy with his pose, plus I wanted to rework the colour to fall into step with the style I'm using for Cir-El and the Pre-Crisis Superman. One more thing I wanted to add that I didn't in the previous version ... the patented Golden Age squint!

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/Superman_Golden_.jpg)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: nightwing on February 16, 2004, 04:00:12 PM
You nailed it! Stocky build, short cape and that Wayne Boring "I'm not flying, I'm running in mid-air" pose.

Great stuff.


Title: Re: The Golden Age Superman Revisited
Post by: Super Monkey on February 16, 2004, 06:10:21 PM
Quote from: "TriSaber"
And here's a re-do of the Golden Age Superman with a few improvements over the old. I wasn't really happy with his pose, plus I wanted to rework the colour to fall into step with the style I'm using for Cir-El and the Pre-Crisis Superman. One more thing I wanted to add that I didn't in the previous version ... the patented Golden Age squint!

(http://www.wuji-web.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/tri/Superman_Golden_.jpg)



Perfect!

Amazing job!

Superman's a lot harder to draw than it looks huh ;)

When I draw Superman, I always draw him with the Golden Age squint ;)


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on February 17, 2004, 11:57:20 AM
Yep. It is harder to nail down Superman's appearance than most people believe ... especially when you're trying to capture the period look that you're shooting for.

For example, most people would look at the Pre-Crisis Superman, the Post-Crisis Superman and the Birthright Superman and say "Meh! What's the difference?" In actual fact (and I'm sure all of you posters here are aware of this), there are a few differences that distinguish each one.

The Pre-Crisis Superman's emblem has a more curved shield shape and a thicker "S" than the other two versions, the cape only goes as far as the knees in length, and attaches more snugly to the collar of Superman's shirt, and the blue in his uniform is more of a sky-like blue than the other two, as well. Also, the emblem is not as large. This is the look that Curt Swan developed for the Pre-Crisis Superman, and I take it as the definitive appearance for this version of the Man of Steel.

The Post-Crisis Superman has a larger, more angular shield shape to his emblem, and the "S" is not quite as thick. The cape is much longer, going down to the ankles, and the collar attachments are much more loose. His facial features should reflect a somewhat younger look than in Curt Swan's Pre-Crisis version. Also, his hair is somewhat longer and sports no curl, being only parted on the left side. This is the look that John Byrne developed for the MAN OF STEEL miniseries, and even Curt Swan himself followed this pattern when he and Jerry Ordway provided the art for SUPERMAN: THE EARTH STEALERS.

The Birthright Superman is basically an amalgam of the previous two incarnations. Like the Pre-Crisis version, the hairstyle has fallen back to the classic curl look with the hair slicked back, but with the addition of sideburns now. Also, his facial features are more chisled than either the Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis versions. The emblem is still angular and crisp like the Post-Crisis version, but now approaches the size customarily used by Alex Ross in his many paintings of Superman. The length of the cape is still long, but the collar attachments reveal much more of the neck and shoulders, harking back to the days of the Golden Age Superman. This is the look he now sports in the SUPERMAN: BIRTHRIGHT miniseries.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: SuperThinnker on February 18, 2004, 08:46:05 AM
Here's some new ideas...


1. The new Supergirl (name unknown, but might be Kara Zor-El again)
2.  Kara In-Ze (from the animated series)
3. Pre-Crisis Lois Lane
4. Pre-Crisis Jimy Olsen
5. Pre-Crisis Perry White
6. Pre-Crisis Lex Luthor
7. Post Crisis Lois Lane
8. Post Crisis Jimmy Olsen
9. Post Crisis Perry White
10. Post Crisis Lex Luthor.
11. Superfriends' Superman
12. WB's animated Superman
13. JL animated Superman

So what do you think? See ya!

S


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Kuuga on February 18, 2004, 10:09:42 AM
I do to actually. It just gives his face a bit more personality. The only downside is figuring out how to portray any of his vision powers when his eyes are just flat lines.   :lol:


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on February 18, 2004, 11:58:18 AM
Okay, after much consideration, I've finally figured out the five main entries for my site. They'll be as follows:

1. Golden Age Superman
2. Earth-2 Superman
3. Silver Age (Pre-Crisis or Earth-1) Superman
4. Post-Crisis Superman
5. Birthright Superman


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: REDBAZ on March 07, 2004, 02:02:56 PM
Hi TriSaber,

Found his topic and can't wait to see your site. I've been looking for a site that would explore the Superman Multiverse and having not found one yet, was about to start one up myself! But it looks like you've got it covered!

If you need any help doing renditions of any of the alternates/versions let us know, and I'd be happy to help out.

I've got a fan comic I'm putting together, one I was to showcase on the site, that would incorporate as many variations on Kal-El as I could find, and I'm still researching. I'd also welcome any fan designs people might be interested in contributing?

Cheers

BAZ


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Super Monkey on March 07, 2004, 04:00:51 PM
You can try this site : http://www.greatkrypton.com/superman/micro.php


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on March 09, 2004, 02:34:27 PM
Thanks, Redbaz ... and Super Monkey's recommendation is a big help (Lord knows it's helping me with my renditions).

Sorry I haven't posted any new works of late, people ... but I've been busy with my Superman/Hulk submission piece for DC Comics (just pencilling out the splash page now. I'll post it when the finished pencil work is done so y'all can have the first gander.

 :wink:


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: Defender on March 09, 2004, 06:02:52 PM
Superman/Hulk? Wow, Tri you're gonna try following in Steve Rude's footsteps? I salute your chutzpah, my friend. Best of luck. :D

 -Def.


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: REDBAZ on March 09, 2004, 06:57:31 PM
Cheers for the link Supermonkey, top stuff. Look forward to your site Trisaber, is it already up yet?

Cheers

baz


Title: Re: The Superman Multiverse
Post by: TriSaber on March 10, 2004, 12:19:40 AM
To Redbaz: My site's not up yet, and I'm afraid it's on hold until I get my sumbission pieces done. But rest assured ... I'll be getting back to that as soon as time permits.

To Defender: Thanks for the vote of confidence, Defender. Yeah, I have to agree following Steve Rude's magnificent work on The Incredible Hulk vs Superman will be a tall order indeed. The most challenging thing for me is how to best portray both the Man of Steel and the Green Goliath. Like Steve Rude, I'm seriously considering putting a Silver Age spin on both characters. I always thought the best portrayal of the Hulk was during the 70s when Sal Buscema and Ernie Chan were rendering beautiful work on The Incredible Hulk (with Sal doing the pencils and Ernie handling the inks). But I also love the almost Frankensteinian look that Jack Kirby gave the Hulk during his early days, too. So I think my version will be a compromise between the two styles. As for Superman, I want to make him a homage to Curt Swan's 1960s work when he was being inked by George Klein, but I also want to put the crispness of the style that Wayne Boring made famous (and was used by such artists as Al Plastino and Dick Sprang). I'm also going to insist on using Wayne Boring's version of the "S" emblem to give everything a 1960s early Cold War look.