The OTHER alien cities Brainiac shrunk

[Captain Kal]

That bugged me too about the Pre Crisis Superman.  He was supposed to be super-intelligent, have a super-brain, etc. yet he kept being classified as 6th level compared with the Brainiac line's 12th level.

The problem is 'level of intelligence' was never really defined.  So, they could keep making those statements and we'd have no way of disputing it.

The facts that Superman continued to outwit Brainiac in encounters, and Superboy being the only person Brainiac 5 could find who might challenge his own intellect in recreational games, and how Luthor seemed to be the more successful and intelligent of the two primary superfoes, that makes me believe Superman/Superboy operated at levels rivalling the 12th one.  Indeed, Brainiac learned quite a bit from studying Kandorian science while he had the city captive which suggests that Kryptonian tech rivalled his own in general.

And Luthor is at least Brainiac's equal in intelligence.

But intelligence consists of many aspects not a linear, single factor, so it could be the above characters excelled in some areas of intelligence while the others had their own strengths.

That's how I differentiate between Batman's greater deductive and intuitive/lateral thinking strengths compared with the 'brute force' of Superman's arriving at conclusions faster through conventional logic.

[llozymandias]

i always saw luthor as being more brilliant than brainiac & superman.  lex was the one who upgraded brainiac from 10th level to 12th level.  also the way he discovered brainiac's true nature & origin says a lot.  in his early teens lex devised an antidote to kryptonite.  superman was unable to do that despite several decades of research & experiments.

[Captain Kal]

Absolutely agreed, llozymandias.  Luthor is demonstrably the most intelligent of the bunch mentioned above.  Indeed, IIRC, Von Neumann proved mathematically that one cannot create something more intelligent that oneself so Luthor had to exceed the 12th level to make those changes to Brainiac.

Just the same, the difference between Kal and Lex should be that of one intellectual giant to another not a genius to a moron.  That's Lex's key flaw in battles of wits with Superman: He refuses to acknowledge that Kal is almost as bright as he is so he consistently underestimates the Man of Steel.  At least that's how it's described in The Einstein Connection/The Ghost of Superman Future.

http://superman.nu/tales2/einstein/?page=3

http://superman.nu/tales2/einstein/?page=5

OTOH, Kal could devise a perpetual motion machine which was clearly beyond Lex's capabilities, so, at least sometimes, Kal could be the intellectual superior not counting underestimation.

http://superman.nu/tales2/einstein/?page=7

http://superman.nu/tales2/einstein/?page=8

Lex not only could create an antidote for kryptonite poisoning, he also devised a holographic system so sophisticated Kal could not duplicate it.

http://superman.nu/tales2/ghost/?page=2

Again, they're intellectual peers with Luthor having the slight edge, IMHO.

[ManSinha]

With all due respect to this marvellous discussion of the levels of intelligence; I have but 2 token points to make:

a) Intelligence was all Luthor had to even place him in the class of Superman's foe. Most of the other challengers of the vaunted Man of Steel had some super human attribute and Luthor had only his intelligence (add to that cunning, wiles etc) going for him. Hence the focus IMHO. Think back to the SA Superman, I can say with a fair degree of certainty that he would not have been nearly as popular as he was if all he (Superman) had done was use his brains. What is the difference between him then, and say, a Sherlock Holmes?

b) Luthor had all the time in the world to plot. Whether he was in prison or out of it, he contiued to plot and scheme and one of his greatest, if not the greatest obsession was the Man of Tomorrow. On the other hand, (and this could be a quirk of the writers) Superman was shown as mainly reacting to the emergency that cropped up, having to "think on his feet" and figure things out as he went along.
In this case, his pal Batman does a better job of scheming ahead and making preparations!

[Super Monkey]

How smart was Superman?



Some fun Super Feats of his Super Smarts:

In January 1942, Superman is able to converse fluently with a mermaid despite the fact that her tongue is completely foreign to him because his advanced intellect instantly comprehends her strange language. (Superman #14)

In April 1955, Superman is described as having used his photographic memory to memorize all the files of the Daily Planet.

In January 1958, Superman is able to match up a suspect's fingerprints with those on file in Washington, D.C., as the result of having used his super-memory to memorize the entire fingerprint file of the F.B.I.

In June 1958, while relaxing at his Fortress of Solitude, Superman defeats a great robot he has built in a game of super-chess, despite the fact that the robot - which possesses a super-electronic brain - can think and play with the speed of lightning and plans a million moves at once.

A text dated August 1963 notes that Superman possesses the super-intellect of a score of the world's most brilliant minds put together!

Source: http://superman.nu/a/Encyclopaedia/powers.php

[llozymandias]

thanks for the reminder super monkey.  this is one of the main reasons i prefer the pre-crisis versions of superman & luthor.  a battle of wits is more interesting than a simple slug-fest.

[NotSuper]

Indeed, IIRC, Von Neumann proved mathematically that one cannot create something more intelligent that oneself so Luthor had to exceed the 12th level to make those changes to Brainiac.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The Coluans created the super-computers and they were much more intelligent than their creators. The super-computers also could've made Brainiac more intelligent than themselves as well. The Coluans said that ALL humans have a 6th level intelligence. For Luthor to exceed that, he would have to have super-intelligence himself (which would mean he DID have a super-power).

[ManSinha]

To play the devil's advocate to Mr. Super Monkey   , having a photographic memory does not in my opinion equate with super intelligence. If that were the case, Dustin Hoffamn in Rain Man would have also been portrayed as super intelligent!

The other facts though, I completely agree with.