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dto
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2005, 04:57:30 AM »

Thanks for providing the link, DarkMark!  And thanks again for your work indexing all those comics!  My Supergirl collection is almost entirely due to your list  -- I was able to avoid some expensive early Action Comics purchases when I discovered that several stories were reprinted in issues I already had.

Ms BonJovi, I'm glad to help.  Peter David was able to salvage Matrix (who was generally unpopular for many reasons) and cast her in a new series that lasted far longer than all of Kara Zor-El's series combined.  Some might bristle at his incorporating various "classic" elements (the "Linda Lee Danvers" identity, Richard Malverne, Comet, Guardian Angel "Kara" etc.), but so long as DC mandated that the earlier Supergirl "never existed", these little "tribute" references were about the closest to the "real thing" that despairing Supergirl fans could hope for.  

And of course there were many devotees who still rejected the "Goo-Girl" or took offense at the overly-spiritual "Earth Angel" aspect that was completely foreign to the original Supergirl concept.  There may be good reasons to suspect that Peter David had an original character and story in mind and simply injected that into Matrix's protoplasm while adding old Kara Zor-El trimmings to further camouflage his creation.

This particular website is dedicated to the Pre-Crisis Superman universe, so for most regulars here "Supergirl" was, is and always should be Supe's little cousin from Argo City.  Thus, despite her own long career (1986-2003) the Matrix/Linda Supergirl is still considered an impostor, the animated Kara In-Ze from the PLANET Argo is "closer, but not the same" and the less said of Cir-El the better.   :wink:   Time will tell whether the newest Supergirl will fully win acceptance, even if she DOES bear the magic name, "Kara Zor-El".

As for me, I'm not too discriminating (though I still cringe a bit about Cir-El).   :wink:   If Superman was fine with Matrix and Linda wearing the "S", then who am I to say "No"?  I do consider the Silver Age Kara to be "First Among Equals", though.  Having met several alternate Supergirls in her career (Power Girl, Marvel Maid, Luma Lynai, Louise-L, Earth-D's Supergirl, etc.), I suspect Kara Zor-El would only modestly accept that distinction rather than the "One TRUE Supergirl".

As you already noticed, originally Linda was a lost soul.  Peter David's Supergirl series is about the path to redemption, though poor hard-luck Linda never achieved the lasting happiness and peace of mind she desired, and finally considered herself unworthy of wearing the "S".  I actually think at that point nobody else desired it more -- no one TRIED harder to maintain the impossibly high standard that "Supergirl" represented, and no one save perhaps Kara herself ultimately paid so tragic a price.
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DTO
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2005, 05:03:58 AM »

OK, I'll dive in.

Wasn't the Matrix Supergirl orginally a clone of the Pocket Universe Lana Lang, whith a little DNA manipulation thrown in?  Sounds to me like this is where the assignment came from.
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"I just wish that you could all see the Earth the way that I see it - because when you really look at it, it's just one world."
- Superman, Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
dto
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2005, 06:29:11 AM »

Starchild, you're very close.  Created by the "Good" Lex Luthor of the Pocket Universe, Matrix was a protoplasmic artificial lifeform that could assume the appearance of Lana Lang or Supergirl.  "She" could even transform "herself" into SuperMAN!  But Matrix was not really a clone of Lana.

The protoplasm aspect is a "nod" to the classic Superboy story where Lex attempted to create artificial life, but the protoplasm experiment was destroyed in a lab fire that also cost Lex his hair.  See http://superman.nu/tales2/howluthormetsuperboy/?page=4.
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DTO
Ms BonJovi
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2005, 02:19:18 PM »

Hi again. Sorry to be annoying ye. I know I have very limited Superman knowledge and it must be frustrating me asking questions but I'm just wondering some things.

The last Supergirl merged(as such) with Linda Danvers. Can this constitute in some way, genetic engineering. It's artificial and human life-forms moulded together to create another life-form of sorts. Also, after this all takes place, Supergirl begins to question her own identity and in a sense her place in the grand scheme of life. This seems to me to be diluted with religious overtones. The idea of the soul is hinted at when she wonders is she Linda or Super-girl. She doesn't accept that she is both initially because traditional religion assures us that we are one person with one soul. Just look at how conservative Catholics deal with mental health. Here in Ireland, it has always been ignored and swept under the carpet by the churches influence who ran this country for many years.

Was Super-girl unsure of her identity because she was unsure of the possibility of 2 souls co-existing.Sartres idea of duality(1 body, 1 soul which depart from each other at death) is instantly recognisable and accepted by nearly all religions.

Or on the other hand, has Super-girl any comprehension of what a soul is and when she received one through Linda, this lead to her distressed and confused behaviour. I know that this is a lot of analysing but unfortulately as an English student, they make us do it.

Have ye any ideas. It requires a very open mind I suppose. And I also was wondering, what beliefs had the author when he wrote this?

Bye for now
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Bubbles
dto
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2005, 08:18:59 AM »

Ms. BonJovi, I'm not a Matrix/Linda expert, but certainly the "merging" created a new lifeform with Supergirl's powers and Linda's (albeit tainted) soul.  Was this merging "scientific" or "spiritual"?  Hard to say, considering that Matrix probably had no conscious intention of combining her artificial lifeform into Linda's dying body -- she just wanted to save Linda in any way possible.  Such a selfless sacrifice alone could produce an Earth Angel, but since this act of salvation occurred in the midst of a satanic ceremony one wonders if this interplay of Good and Evil forces helped produce this "miracle".

As Matrix/Linda questioning her identity/identities, on one level this is understandable -- who's REALLY in the driver's seat?  It certainly appears that Matrix is predominant in the beginning, but along the way as more of Linda's memories resurface the distinction blurs.  Is Matrix simply assuming the identity of a dead girl?  This is certainly a distressing thought, since Matrix had promised the Danvers that she would rescue Linda, not impersonate her.  Or as Matrix comes to understand Linda more, does she allow Linda to assume control so she will have the opportunity ("free will") to atone for her past sins and "redeem" her lost soul?  

Matrix had earlier questioned whether an artificial non-human lifeform could possess a soul.  After the merging, Matrix provides the "body" for Linda's "soul", but still there seems to be two conscious beings in play.  After the separation in Issue #50, Linda feels an emptyness that's not entirely due to her severely reduced powers.  But at this point Linda is her own person.  When did she "recover" her own soul?  Was it in Issue #50 or later when Linda sacrificed herself and was restored to life?  I suspect the latter, but admittedly my direct knowledge of this series is incomplete at best.

I somewhat hesitate to suggest this, but you might find better Matrix/Linda experts on the DC Message Boards, particularly the Supergirl board at http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/forum.jspa?forumID=29209082.  Be warned that compared to the welcome civility in the Superman Through the Ages! Forum, the DC Message Boards can be a "rough neighborhood".  There are some particularly boorish posters in the Supergirl boards who I will not identify.  However, there are also some Linda fans who are well-spoken and very knowledgeable.  You might want to post your question there, and hope the thread doesn't get hijacked in one of the ongoing flame wars.

Again, good luck with your project.
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DTO
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2005, 12:02:42 PM »

I somewhat hesitate to suggest this, but you might find better Matrix/Linda experts on the DC Message Boards, particularly the Supergirl board at http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/forum.jspa?forumID=29209082. Be warned that compared to the welcome civility in the Superman Through the Ages! Forum, the DC Message Boards can be a "rough neighborhood". There are some particularly boorish posters in the Supergirl boards who I will not identify. However, there are also some Linda fans who are well-spoken and very knowledgeable. You might want to post your question there, and hope the thread doesn't get hijacked in one of the ongoing flame wars.


It's least it's not the Comic Rescoure Board, where it's POSTER beware!
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dto
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2005, 07:13:13 PM »

Hmm.  Somehow that link is off.  Let's try again:

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/forum.jspa?forumID=29209082&start=0

Hopefully that should work.  Be careful out there.   :wink:
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DTO
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2005, 10:45:11 PM »

It's amazing how many guys jump at the chance to help out a girl when so many topics go unreplied to.  :wink:
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