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Author Topic: Re: Preliminary thoughts  (Read 4301 times)
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Super Monkey
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« on: February 13, 2005, 02:30:42 AM »

Superman# 423 and Action Comics #583 should be the cut off points for this.
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Bill 9000
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2005, 04:11:52 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
It looks great!

It would be great to have Bill 9000 do a drawing for every character in order to keep a consisted uniform look. Of course he should get billing as the illustrator for the site so that he can use it for his resume/art portfolio and get assignments from it.

Thanks, SM. I'm up for it. Like I said, this is gonna be soooooo fun!!! And I agree. The cut-off point should be just prior to the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths. And I, for one, would vote to see material from both World's Finest Comics and DC Comics Presents included in this project. This would allow great characters such as Black Lightning (who made his home in Metropolis' Suicide Slum) and the Composite Superman to be included in the encyclopedia. Entries on the Earth-2 Superman and Power Girl should also be included since they were integral parts of the Superman legend.
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The Starchild
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2005, 06:39:07 PM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
I'd cut off this expanded history with the last pre-Byrne issues; the few issues between "Crisis" and "Man of Steel" may not technically be the Superman of Earth 1, but then Fleischer's book treated him as one guy from 38 to 64 anyway.

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
Superman# 423 and Action Comics #583 should be the cut off points for this.

Quote from: "Bill 9000"
And I agree. The cut-off point should be just prior to the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Super Monkey and Bill 9000, you guys are actually talking about two separate cut-off points as if they are the same:  There's "just prior to Crisis" followed by, about a year later, Super Monkey's S 423 and Act 583, the "last pre-Byrne issues."

I don't really know which cut-off I'd pick.  The time between Crisis and Byrne was a sort of grey twilight dimension, that continued a Superman continuity that was much like the Earth-1 Superman's continuity, but with a number of stories that don't really fit and perhaps shouldn't be included.  Stories like Crisis, the last issue of DCCP, and Supergirl's secret marriage.  So maybe the cut-off should be just before Crisis.  But then we'd be cutting out some Bates, Maggin, and Swan and one could make a pretty good argument that their stuff is always canonical.

On the other hand, I don't think we can just pick-and-choose some stories and not others from that final year.  So if I had to pick (which I don't Smiley) I'd side with Bill 9000 on this and cut it off right before Crisis - sorry Beppo and Nightwing - I don't think Crisis itself nor that last year of pre-Byrne stories really fit.
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2005, 08:04:33 PM »

Perhaps a compromise?  We concentrate on the Pre-Crisis "Glory Days", BUT also mention (and specifically identify) events that occurred during the Crisis and the "Twillight Zone" between Crisis and the Byrne reboot.  Thus what happened during and immediately Post-Crisis can be seen as "technically canonical, but then again..."  

In this latter category we can also include other "tribute" stories that definitely are dated post 1985, but have glimpses of the earlier continuity -- the "Kara" appearance in Christmas with the Superheroes #2 comes immediately to mind.
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2005, 09:06:25 PM »

Ulimately this is all up to The Great Rao, it is his site and he makes the final call.
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2005, 12:23:42 AM »

Agreed. We'll leave it to Rao to make the final decision. As for Wonder-Man, I'll include his invulnerability to kryptonite and the fact that his super-powers are identical when I upload the finished image to the site. And to answer your question, Starchild, that was an original composition that I did after re-reading the issue in which he appears (which, of course, is conveniently found right here on this site).
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2005, 12:52:03 AM »

I agree the year or so of post-Crisis/pre-Byrne issues don't neatly jibe with Earth-1 continuity, but my point is that much of Fleischer's book does not fit into Earth-1 continuity.  I thought Rao was suggesting we use that book as a springboard and continue it from 1964 on to cover what the original author missed.  If so, we could easily continue Fleischer's tack of treating Superman as one man who operated from 1938 onwards, and not two men, or even more, as postulated with the invention of the "Multiverse." Fleischer's book does not recognize the existence of Earth-1 or Earth-2, and we can ignore them, too.  So if a story doesn't fit neatly into Earth-1 continuity, it need hardly matter.

The point is, these stories still had a nebbishy Clark Kent, a Superman who revered Krypton, a mad scientist model Luthor, Steve Lombard and all the other trappings of pre-reboot Superman.  Byrne gave us a whole new character from the ground up, so it shouldn't count.  Anything that used the "old rules," even if it took a few strange turns, should be in.

I will grant you however, that it gets sticky after the Crisis because things like Supergirl's death, etc can't be acknowleged without referencing the Crisis itself, which I think we all agree is non-canon for the purposes of this project.
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2005, 03:52:51 AM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
I will grant you however, that it gets sticky after the Crisis because things like Supergirl's death, etc can't be acknowleged without referencing the Crisis itself, which I think we all agree is non-canon for the purposes of this project.


If it is going to be pre-reboot then it would include crisis and all the issues right before the re-boot. If it is going to be pre-crisis then it should stop at the last issues right before Crisis #1. That means no mention the Death of these characters and no Superboy-Prime (I am sure he didn't appear before then, unless I am mistaken)


I do think we should include things like Earth-2 Superman, Earth-3 Ultraman, Muhammad Ali, and even the infamous Super-Sons of Earth-E!
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