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Poll
Question: Should DC Comics Presents be included in the canonical sources?  (Voting closed: February 26, 2005, 03:21:53 PM)
Yes, all the issues should be included - 5 (50%)
No, none of the issues should be included - 0 (0%)
Just some of them (explain) - 5 (50%)
Total Voters: 10

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Author Topic: DC Comics Presents: Yay or Nay?  (Read 8466 times)
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Spaceman Spiff
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2005, 04:52:13 AM »

I see that I'm the lone (so far) voter for "All". Not that I consider them to all be canonical, but I also don't consider all of any other 1938-1986 series to be canonical. I seem to recall a Superman/Dr. Fate crossover in World's Finest Comics where Kent Nelson had made a career move from archaeologist to surgeon. The problem with "Some" is that someone (read "Great Rao") must decree which are to be included and which are to be excluded.

It appears I'm also in the minority on the Earth-One/Earth-Two concept, because I think it should be included. I doubt Fleisher ever made mention of it, since he only covered 1938-1964. Superman, Action Comics, & World's Finest Comics ran uninterrupted from the Golden Age through 1964. Unlike the case of the Flash, there was no need to explain the appearance of a new Superman. Of course, after the JLA/JSA team-ups began it became clear that there must be an Earth-Two Superman.

I suggest that Justice League of America, All-Star Comics (both Golden Age and Bronze Age), and even All-Star Squadron should also be included. The articles can point out where these stories differ from previously established facts. (Of course, in the case of All-Star Squadron that would be practically the whole series.)
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2005, 05:25:21 AM »

I think that Earth-2 Superman should be included, his stories appear on this very site!

http://superman.nu/a/History/e2-superman.php

http://superman.nu/tales2/wife/

http://superman.nu/tales2/e2-origin/
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2005, 05:34:00 AM »

Gotta have Earth 1& 2 - what would Julie say if we didn't?! :shock:
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dto
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2005, 07:58:32 AM »

I voted an unashamed "Yes, all the issues should be included".  Really, what's the matter with DCCP #67?  Don't you believe in Santa Claus?   :wink:

(Confession time:  as a kid I thought it was rather neat that there were TWO secret bases in the Arctic.  And who would dare disturb the Jolly Old Elf if his workshop was NEXT DOOR to Superman's Fortress of Solitude?)

Seriously, I have deep reservations over arbitrarilly "picking and choosing" specific issues of a series.  While it is an editor's prerogative -- nay, DUTY -- to screen out unsuitable material, this project poses a big question:  Will this "Supermanica" be a COMPLETE and COMPREHENSIVE reference of the "Pre-Crisis" Superman, or simply reflecting what a relatively small contingent of online fans CONSIDER "canon"?

I assume many who frequent this site are unabashed Silver/Bronze Era Superman fans.  We have staunchly defended "traditional" Superman themes and elements such as a Kryptonian Supergirl, a "Buck Rogers Sci-Fi" Krypton, a Super-Menagerie of Pets, a miniaturized and bottled Kandor and the Superman Emergency Squad against a generation (and more) of derisive Byrne followers.  But now that we set out to create a massive online reference on our favorite Man of Steel, have we suddenly become self-conscious and embarrassed about a few "less-than-serious" stories?  If so, what else do we self-censor?  The Super-Sons?  Super-Pets?  Every "Imaginary Story"?  I always disliked that prankster Mr. Mxyzptlk -- should we now proclaim that his stories "never happened"?  And frankly who are WE to say, "This is the TRUE Superman, this isn't..."?

Folks, if I wanted a totally serious (if not absolutely dreary) Superman, I'd cross over and join the Iron Agers.  Humor was an essential element of the positive and optimistic nature of the Silver Age.  The burdens of the world did not weigh down the Man of Tomorrow -- he could even smile at his own expense at times.  It was certainly reassuring to know that the Most Powerful Man in the Universe didn't take himself too seriously all the time.

If we want to celebrate the ENTIRE Silver/Bronze Age Superman, then use everything, "warts and all".  What some fans consider abyssmally hokey, contrived and overly-sentimental is considered by others to be an essential part of Superman's enduring charm.  IF something just "doesn't fit", then make an editorial footnote briefly explaining why in an objective manner.  A story belonging in the "gray area" between Crisis and the Reboot can be simply identified as such.  Obvious contradictions could be tactfully pointed out with brief supporting citations.  Other oddities might be flagged with an explanation of its context.

So, let's examine DC Comics Presents.  The appearance of Santa Claus in #67 is a prime example of how DC heroes interacted with the Christmas holidays ("Christmas with the Superheroes" being the most obvious instance).  It also reflected some of the whimsy that occasionally surfaced in the DC Universe.  He-Man in #47 could be portrayed as just another "alternate universe" crossover, while final issue #97 could be warped due to the temporal uncertainties of the Crisis.  (The contradictions between DCCP #97 and "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" might be explained by the fact that the latter tale even proclaimed itself to be "An Imaginary Story".)  In any case, whatever happened in DCCP #97 was immediately "retconned" by The Man of Steel, so whether events really DID happen as portrayed is moot.

Thus, I say keep all of DC Comics Presents, but at least note which issues occurred post-Crisis.  Besides Superwoman's adventures, DC Comics Presents was the main source for Superboy-Prime and Superman's great-grandfather Var-El.  And didn't the Global Guardians debut in DCCP #46?  Finally there was the great battle with Mongul and the immediate aftermath in #27-29, where Supergirl nearly dies after performing the most astonishing exhibition of her true strength prior to the Crisis -- performing a kamikaze dive right THROUGH Mongul's Warworld!  I think Supermanica would be sorely lacking without these tales -- ALL of them.

Perhaps I'm being so adamant about DC Comics Presents because JUST TODAY I finally completed my collection.  (HOORAY!)   Cheesy   And I actually have Annual #1 (featuring Superman, Luthor and Lois from Earth-1, 2 AND 3!) sitting next to my scanner.  But if we feel DC Comics Presents is unworthy of consideration, well...   :twisted:
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DTO
Bill 9000
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2005, 12:58:23 PM »

Quote from: "Klar Ken T5477"
Gotta have Earth 1 & 2 - what would Julie say if we didn't?! :shock:

He'd probably say "Include them or I'll slap you in the head!" I would.  :twisted:  :wink:
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TELLE
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2005, 03:34:30 PM »

Quote from: "dto"
I voted an unashamed "Yes, all the issues should be included".  Really, what's the matter with DCCP #67?  Don't you believe in Santa Claus?   :wink:

(Confession time:  as a kid I thought it was rather neat that there were TWO secret bases in the Arctic.  And who would dare disturb the Jolly Old Elf if his workshop was NEXT DOOR to Superman's Fortress of Solitude?)

:


There is a Santa entry in Fleisher.  A story from the 1940s.
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2005, 12:46:58 AM »

Well, I guess we can add Santa this x-mas Wink

BTW, I change my mind and I now think that all DCP issues that star Superman which happen before crisis should count.
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2005, 12:51:59 AM »

If they happened before the crisis then I think they should be included, afterall even tho some were humorous in nature they are part of the myth.  What I don't think we need to include are the "Imaginary" stories, since these were always "May or not happen"
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