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Author Topic: A clear rule needs to made with regard to the Crisis.  (Read 3120 times)
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Admiral Chew
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« on: March 08, 2005, 12:37:11 AM »

My reference to the Crisis has been deleted in my multiverse entry.

I know there's a note saying not to include the EVENTS of the Crisis and certainly the Crisis on Infinite Earths maxi-series is not in the canonical sources.

But the crisis crossover issues of Superman and Action ARE in the canonical sources.

It's silly to have a rule that something from a canonical source cannot be mentioned in the database.

This rule needs to be clarified and until this is cleared up people need to stop deleting parts of other people entries if they aren't inacurate or they're not replacing them with something more detailed.
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The Starchild
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2005, 12:50:28 AM »

The section that was deleted read:
Quote
Most of the universes in the multiverse appeared to be destroyed in the cosmic event known as the [[Crisis on Infinite Earths]], and the remaining universes were apparently merged into a single universe, but the true fate of the the multiverse has since come into question.

I didn't do the deleting, but I agree that this should have been removed.  I guess my first question is: Was any of this ever explicitely mentioned in the canonical sources, or do we just "know" this from elsewhere?  Do you have a reference?  I think the best way to approach writing articles is to put yourself in the pre-Crisis reality (not pre-Reboot, but pre-Crisis) when doing so and limit yourself to what is mentioned in the canonical sources.

Here's another thought:  Was the term "Multiverse" ever used in any of the chronicles that we are limiting ourselves to?  If it wasn't, I don't think we can use it.
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ShinDangaioh
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2005, 01:13:21 AM »

Different universes by name?  Yes.

Earth-X, Earth-2, Earth-S, and a few others via DC Comics presents.  But, the multi-verse in paticular?  Not that I recall until post Byrne-boot in Action Comics with the Metal Men guest starring.

The multi-verse seemed to be more used in books like JLofA, Wonder Woman, and  few others.
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2005, 02:04:54 AM »

The rule is very clear, this will be 100% PRE-CRISIS, not pre-reboot.

Quote
ut the crisis crossover issues of Superman and Action ARE in the canonical sources.


No they are not!

I repeat this is pre-crisis only, that means once crisis starts, canonical issues end.

Every issue right before Crisis is fine and is 100% canonical, even silly stuff unless it was reconned before crisis even started.

No one can write about Crisis or what happen afterwards aka current continuity. That goes against the whole point of this project.

What you wrote was talking about not only what happen before and after crisis but also current continuity.A big no no! Last guy who did that got banned (but not by me).

So I deleted it, since it didn't belong.
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Admiral Chew
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2005, 02:29:30 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
The rule is very clear, this will be 100% PRE-CRISIS, not pre-reboot.

Quote
ut the crisis crossover issues of Superman and Action ARE in the canonical sources.


No they are not!

I repeat this is pre-crisis only, that means once crisis starts, canonical issues end.


The Superman and Action crossover issues ARE listed among the canonical sources on the Supermanica site.

Go see for yourself.

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Canonical_sources
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Great Rao
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2005, 02:54:28 AM »

There is a grey area here.

Yes, the "canonical sources" include the issues that were published before, during, and after the crisis - up to but not including the Byrne reboot.  Remember that Crisis was published from April 1985 to March 1986 - running for about a year.  Six months later, in September 1986, Superman #423 and Action Comics #583 came out.  So essentially, the canonical list includes the end of the Bronze Age - everything up to and including Superman #423 and Action Comics #583.  This means there is a year of material published during Crisis and a small number of issues that are "post crisis" but "pre reboot" - that six month window.  Some of these issues are included here on STTA:

http://superman.nu/tales2/superboyprime/
http://superman.nu/tales2/einstein/
http://superman.nu/tales3/murdered_evil/
http://superman.nu/tales4/thedream/
http://superman.nu/tales3/imp/

Based on earlier discussions on this forum, we all decided that these stories should be included, but that crisis itself should be heavily downplayed.  I agree with Starchild when he says,
Quote from: "The Starchild"
I think the best way to approach writing articles is to put yourself in the pre-Crisis reality (not pre-Reboot, but pre-Crisis) when doing so and limit yourself to what is mentioned in the canonical sources.


So as far as the paragraph which was deleted from the Multiverse entry is concerned - I don't think we can mention things that take place outside the list of "canonical sources."  So where was it ever mentioned that all the universes merged?  I honestly don't know.  If you're putting material in an article that others might question, just be sure to include your references.

None of this is cast in stone and we can certainly re-open the discussion.  But I think it is important that we all be on the same page.

I'd also like to clarify my role here:  When it comes to Superman Through the Ages!, I am supreme ruler and dictator, and create my own preferred reality using bits and pieces of every continuity that ever existed and some that didn't.  But I see Supermanica as very different - it's more restrictive in that it has a strict set of "canonical resources," limited to one comic-book continuity, and not everyone may agree 100% with that list - but we all agree to stick to it, partly because we've all worked on creating it, and partly because we all know that there have to be common guidelines.  On the other hand, Supermanica is also less restrictive - it's a collaborative effort, where we all have to work together - it's not the one-man soap box that STTA is.  However, when we've all agreed that we've needed someone to cast a final decision, and that that someone should be me, I've acted in that capacity and I am willing to continue to do so.

S!
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Admiral Chew
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2005, 03:08:47 AM »

Quote from: "Great Rao"
There is a grey area here.

Yes, the "canonical sources" include the issues that were published before, during, and after the crisis - up to but not including the Byrne reboot.  Remember that Crisis was published from April 1985 to March 1986.  Six months later, in September 1986, Superman #423 and Action Comics #583 came out.  So essentially, the canonical list includes the end of the Bronze Age - everything up to and including Superman #423 and Action Comics #583.  This means there is a small number of issues that are "post crisis" but "pre reboot" - that six month window.  Some of these issues are included here on STTA:

http://superman.nu/tales2/superboyprime/
http://superman.nu/tales2/einstein/
http://superman.nu/tales3/murdered_evil/
http://superman.nu/tales4/thedream/
http://superman.nu/tales3/imp/

Based on earlier discussions on this forum, we all decided that these stories should be included, but that crisis itself should be heavily downplayed.  I agree with Starchild when he says,
Quote from: "The Starchild"
I think the best way to approach writing articles is to put yourself in the pre-Crisis reality (not pre-Reboot, but pre-Crisis) when doing so and limit yourself to what is mentioned in the canonical sources.


So as far as the paragraph which was deleted from the Multiverse entry is concerned - I don't think we can mention things that take place outside the list of "canonical sources."  So where was it ever mentioned that all the universes merged?

None of this is cast in stone and we can certainly re-open the discussion.  But I think it is important that we all be on the same page.

S!


Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm certainly glad to live by whatever rule everyone else wants.

I won't make any future mention of the elements of the Crisis that aren't in the canonical sources.

Also someone needs to edit the Main Page because it now says that no mention of Crisis events is permitted and that the Superman Crisis Crossover issues are not canonical.

I'd fix it, but I'm not comfortable editing the main page.
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2005, 04:17:20 AM »

Quote from: "Admiral Chew"
Quote from: "Super Monkey"
The rule is very clear, this will be 100% PRE-CRISIS, not pre-reboot.

Quote
ut the crisis crossover issues of Superman and Action ARE in the canonical sources.


No they are not!

I repeat this is pre-crisis only, that means once crisis starts, canonical issues end.


The Superman and Action crossover issues ARE listed among the canonical sources on the Supermanica site.

Go see for yourself.

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Canonical_sources


Well, the text is still there and can be put back in if need be. We shall see what the poll says.

I have no personal stake in it, I was just trying to make sure everything is   kosher.
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