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Author Topic: Timeline: 1st Appearances of each Supergirl, Superwoman, etc  (Read 13755 times)
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Maximara
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2005, 12:35:45 AM »

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Nice article...

Lucy (the queen of that one country) from the Superboy story exists on Earth-1, since that's where all Superboy stories took place (the Earth-2 Superman was never Superboy); it just seems as if the more familiar Silver Age stories and subsequent issues almost never referred back to the Golden Age-era Superboy stories from "More Fun Comics", "Adventure Comics", and the pre-mid-50's Superboy comics...


Actually there are two another Earths involved - Earth E and Earth-B. Earth-E (also called Earth-2A by some) was a way to deal with the stories of the flux era 1948-58 and the occational Golden age comic that would mix elements of what would become defined as Earth-1 and Earth-2 years later begining in 1966.

For example as reshown in in Crisis Earth-2's Lex Luthor had a full head of hair so any Golden Age appearance of a bald Luthor happened on Earth-E. The same is true of any Golden Age story where Clark Kent worked for the Daily Planet  under Perry White (rather than the Daily Star under George Taylor) Earth-E was later (1977) used to deal with the Super-son stories before some genius at DC who in 1980 revealed that the whole thing had been a computer program (And you thought that season ending of Dallas or the Spider Clone idea was bad) Then to to deal with the wild and woolly way the Brave and the Bold #70 through #130  (roughly 1967-1976) many stories there were said to have been from Earth-B.

So for the flux period you have a total mish-mash of Earth-2, Earth-1, and Earth-E and perhaps a little proto-Earth-B throw in for good measure. Efforts to hammer out somthing resembling an Earth-E timeline or at least some defining features to set it apart from Earth-1 and Earth-2 have been tried but it is largely a hit or miss affair.

So far as Superman goes Earth-E had these elements:

1) Clark Kent worked for Daily Planet  under Perry White as he did on Earth-1 but in the early 1950's (the Fleischer superman cartoons can be concidered an Earth-E varient where Clark Kent workd for the Daily Planet in the 1940's and fought the Nazis directly)

2) As Superboy the Earth-E Superman is kept occupied by varies 5th column Axis efforts and Lex Luthor keeping him at home and out of the conflict (Superboy #59, #153, #163). On Earth-1 Superboy was not active until the mid 1950's.

3) Superman marries Lois Lane as he did on Earth-2 but here he has a son.

4) Other than Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman there are no major heroes on Earth-E until the Flash appears in 1955. So Earth-E has no JSA as far as can be seen though it may have had a JLA.
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2005, 06:51:02 PM »

Quote from: "Lorendiac"
Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Nice article...

Lucy (the queen of that one country) from the Superboy story exists on Earth-1, since that's where all Superboy stories took place (the Earth-2 Superman was never Superboy); it just seems as if the more familiar Silver Age stories and subsequent issues almost never referred back to the Golden Age-era Superboy stories from "More Fun Comics", "Adventure Comics", and the pre-mid-50's Superboy comics...

Power Girl was launched from Earth at the same time as her cousin, but her ship took longer to reach Earth, arriving 60 years after Superman did.


I had not realized that anything published as early as 1949 was to be taken as strictly Earth-1 continuity after the Earth-1/Earth-2 concept was formally introduced years later.

I knew vaguely that the Silver Age is frequently considered to have begun with the coming of Barry Allen, the Silver Age Flash (eventually revealed in a later story as the Earth-1 Flash) in 1956. I also knew that the dividing line is much fuzzier for Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, none of whom were Obviously Rebooted with new and different versions who had radically different costumes, secret identities, and even hair colors than the previous Golden Age versions.

Live and learn! I'll remove any reference to Lucy Regent as an Earth-2 character in my second draft, in about a week.

I'll also fix the bit about Power Girl. I think I must have assumed that her situation was parallel to that of the Silver Age Supergirl, instead of being a traveler who came to Earth straight from a dying Krypton - except for a few unfortunate delays along the way (what's a few decades between friends?) - the way the newest version of Supergirl claims to have done.


Yep, for the most part, the earliest Superboy stories were one of the very few exceptions of 40's/early 50's stories taking place on Earth-1---making "More Fun Comics" #101 in 1944 the first apperance of the Earth-One universe (and Earth-One versions of Clark Kent, Kryptonians, etc.), though it would take until the mid-50's or so for all of DC's books to more or less take place there; various Superman origin stories between the mid-40's and late 50's would oscillate back and forth on including Superboy or not, for instance, and it's obvious the 1940's Superman being published alongside these Superboy stories is still the Earth-Two version. All retroactive declarations of course, as you noted (since the multiverse wasn't around in the 40's or 50's), but still...

Earth-B was where "all the stories that didn't make sense" took place (stuff like Catwoman killing, Superboy meeting "Marsboy"---since Martians are supposed to resemble J'onn J'onzz---probably the "Lana's younger brother" stories, etc.), from what I recall.

Finally, Superboy's debut/operation decade varied by whatever the current year was, thanks to Earth-One's sliding-scale timeline (to keep everyone perpetually young) and editorial whim. When Superboy debuted, his stories were seemingly set in whatever the then-current year was (a 1952-published story for instance had Lana competing for "Miss Smallville 1952"). In the late 50's, Mort decided that Superboy would take place in the early to mid-30's (per Superman's 1938 debut date). This held until around 1970, when they decided to update Superboy's era by putting him on a floating timeline of circa 13-15 years behind the present year---hence, in the 70's, Superboy was moved up to the 50's. With 1980's "New Adventures of Superboy" series, Superboy got moved up again to the late 1960's, with the setting apparently moving into the early 1970's when the series was cancelled (one sign: Smallville got threatened by having its first shopping mall built, which would've put the Kent General Store and other small stories in Smallville out of business; also, Lana asks Clark to go with her to a Carpenters concert in the last issue...).

Note: Is this the same Lorendic on Toonzone.com? If so, hi there (I go by the screen name "Brainatra" there...).
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TELLE
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2005, 08:13:19 AM »

My head is spinning!
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2005, 04:50:08 PM »

Quote from: "TELLE"
Can't be sure, but does any of that cover the appearance of the Kara from the so-called imaginary story, "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"


That was indeed the Silver Age Kara Zor-El, in her younger days as a Legion of Super-Heroes member.  I once tried to categorize all the Post-Crisis appearances of "Kara Zor-El" ("May Auld Acquaintance Be Forgot?", "Many Happy Returns", etc.), and the following was my entry for "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?":


Superman #423
“Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?”
September 1986

WHAT IS IT?  This sentimental farewell to the Earth-1 Superman (concluding in Action #583) was written by Alan Moore, with artwork by Curt Swan and George Perez.  In this “Imaginary Story (which may never happen, but then again may)”, Superman’s enemies have succeeded in driving him and his closest friends to the Fortress of Solitude.  Besieged in his Fortress, Superman is visited by the Legion of Super-Heroes the night before the final attack – and Superman realizes that his friends from the 30th Century have come to pay their last respects.

But there’s a surprise guest – a young Kara in her original costume!  Since Supergirl died over a year ago during the Crisis, Superman is justifiably upset with Brainiac 5.  Brainy explains that Kara insisted on joining them, completely unaware of her fate.  Already emotionally upset, Superman can barely contain himself as Supergirl innocently inquires about her “future” self:  “As the Supergirl of THIS era, am I away visiting another TIME PERIOD or something?  Because I thought you couldn’t materialize in an era where you already EXISTED.”

In a heartbreaking response, Superman blurts out:  “Uh, yes.  Yes, you’re right…right now, Supergirl…Supergirl is in the PAST.”  No wonder Superman is left weeping after the Legion departs.

HOW IS IT?  Anyone who loved the pre-Byrne Earth-1 Superman should treasure this affectionate “goodbye”.  (Both issues have since been released as a single volume.)  The meeting with Supergirl on pages 21-23 is full of pathos – Superman steers Kara away from one section of his Fortress, possibly because that’s where the Kara memorial statue (in her blouse and hot pants outfit) is seen on page 20.  Kara also naively assumes that she must be a "Superwoman" by this time.  There are about a dozen panels of Kara, and the close-ups truly recapture her younger appearance beautifully.  Highly recommended.

WHO IS IT?  This is indeed Kara, possibly soon after joining the Legion.  However, remember this IS an “Imaginary Story”, so her actions in this issue “never really happened”.
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2005, 01:38:25 AM »

Ah, so.  I guess I was kind of hoping for a more elaborate answer.

Great recap: I just re-read that story and noticed that Brainy is upset as well --he is downcast and in shadow when Superman tells Kara that her other self is "in the past".
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2005, 03:08:14 AM »

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Earth-B was where "all the stories that didn't make sense" took place (stuff like Catwoman killing, Superboy meeting "Marsboy"---since Martians are supposed to resemble J'onn J'onzz---probably the "Lana's younger brother" stories, etc.), from what I recall.


Knew about that one - the catchall function of that parallel Earth, that is, though I don't specifically recall Marsboy or Lana's kid brother Smiley. For instance, when Bob Haney died last year, I read a few online articles about his work for DC back around the 60s and 70s and I believe at least once of them said a fair amount of his work should probably be considered to have only occurred on Earth-B, given the continuity problems if you tried to shoehorn it into Earth-1 or Earth-2 Smiley And I had heard that said about Earth-B before in more general terms.

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Finally, Superboy's debut/operation decade varied by whatever the current year was, thanks to Earth-One's sliding-scale timeline (to keep everyone perpetually young) and editorial whim. When Superboy debuted, his stories were seemingly set in whatever the then-current year was (a 1952-published story for instance had Lana competing for "Miss Smallville 1952"). In the late 50's, Mort decided that Superboy would take place in the early to mid-30's (per Superman's 1938 debut date). This held until around 1970, when they decided to update Superboy's era by putting him on a floating timeline of circa 13-15 years behind the present year---hence, in the 70's, Superboy was moved up to the 50's. With 1980's "New Adventures of Superboy" series, Superboy got moved up again to the late 1960's, with the setting apparently moving into the early 1970's when the series was cancelled (one sign: Smallville got threatened by having its first shopping mall built, which would've put the Kent General Store and other small stories in Smallville out of business; also, Lana asks Clark to go with her to a Carpenters concert in the last issue...).


Knew something about that. I've got something like the first two years' worth of "The New Adventures of Superboy" series, and toward the beginning it had one or two essays about the past history of the character and how his stories sometimes seemed to be set in a timeframe that was not a decade or two earlier than whatever the "modern" timeframe was in the adventures of the grown-up Superman being published at the same time. (Who needs logic, anyway? Smiley)

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Note: Is this the same Lorendic on Toonzone.com? If so, hi there (I go by the screen name "Brainatra" there...).


Yes, that's me.

I try to stick to using the name Lorendiac in any comics-related online writings I crank out, and I've never met another Lorendiac in all my wanderings. (A few people who use "Loren" as their name or part of their name, however.)
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2005, 06:05:23 PM »

Quote from: "Lorendiac"
Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Earth-B was where "all the stories that didn't make sense" took place (stuff like Catwoman killing, Superboy meeting "Marsboy"---since Martians are supposed to resemble J'onn J'onzz---probably the "Lana's younger brother" stories, etc.), from what I recall.



Knew about that one - the catchall function of that parallel Earth, that is, though I don't specifically recall Marsboy or Lana's kid brother Smiley. For instance, when Bob Haney died last year, I read a few online articles about his work for DC back around the 60s and 70s and I believe at least once of them said a fair amount of his work should probably be considered to have only occurred on Earth-B, given the continuity problems if you tried to shoehorn it into Earth-1 or Earth-2 Smiley And I had heard that said about Earth-B before in more general terms.


Saw a panel of it online somewhere once of "Marsboy"---basically some guy that didn't look a thing like J'onn J'onzz or his people. Only showed up in a few early 50's stories; guessing probably one of the many examples of a lifeform from Mars showing up in various DC stories of the 50's, before they decided that J'onn was "officially" what Martians would look like.

Quote

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Finally, Superboy's debut/operation decade varied by whatever the current year was, thanks to Earth-One's sliding-scale timeline (to keep everyone perpetually young) and editorial whim. When Superboy debuted, his stories were seemingly set in whatever the then-current year was (a 1952-published story for instance had Lana competing for "Miss Smallville 1952"). In the late 50's, Mort decided that Superboy would take place in the early to mid-30's (per Superman's 1938 debut date). This held until around 1970, when they decided to update Superboy's era by putting him on a floating timeline of circa 13-15 years behind the present year---hence, in the 70's, Superboy was moved up to the 50's. With 1980's "New Adventures of Superboy" series, Superboy got moved up again to the late 1960's, with the setting apparently moving into the early 1970's when the series was cancelled (one sign: Smallville got threatened by having its first shopping mall built, which would've put the Kent General Store and other small stories in Smallville out of business; also, Lana asks Clark to go with her to a Carpenters concert in the last issue...).


Knew something about that. I've got something like the first two years' worth of "The New Adventures of Superboy" series, and toward the beginning it had one or two essays about the past history of the character and how his stories sometimes seemed to be set in a timeframe that was not a decade or two earlier than whatever the "modern" timeframe was in the adventures of the grown-up Superman being published at the same time. (Who needs logic, anyway? Smiley)


Yep... the 40's and some of the 50's stories seemed to take place at the same time (saw some cover online of a 50's Superboy or Adventure comic where the Kents in Superboy's time are watching TV.... um, OK. :-) ).

Can see why they'd want to move Superboy to the 50's at least, though---seems there'd be more storyline possibilities in an era where computers, space travel, television, robotics, radar, nuclear weapons weren't just science-fiction or as experimental as they were in the 30's (not that that made the 30's-set Superboy stories [which had space travel and robots anyway] any less entertaining or anything...).

Quote

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Note: Is this the same Lorendic on Toonzone.com? If so, hi there (I go by the screen name "Brainatra" there...).


Yes, that's me.

I try to stick to using the name Lorendiac in any comics-related online writings I crank out, and I've never met another Lorendiac in all my wanderings. (A few people who use "Loren" as their name or part of their name, however.)


I didn't think "Brainatra" would be an appropriate user name for a Superman-oriented forum (though "Pinky and the Brain" does have a connection to Superman that'd be on topic here, via the episode "Two Mice and A Baby"---the mice apparently are on Earth-One 30 years ago and briefly take in the infant Kal-El after he lands on Earth...). Hence, "Johnny Nevada."
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2005, 01:15:21 AM »

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
I didn't think "Brainatra" would be an appropriate user name for a Superman-oriented forum (though "Pinky and the Brain" does have a connection to Superman that'd be on topic here, via the episode "Two Mice and A Baby"---the mice apparently are on Earth-One 30 years ago and briefly take in the infant Kal-El after he lands on Earth...). Hence, "Johnny Nevada."


Johnny, there's a hilarious Pinky and the Brain / Pre-Crisis Legion of Super-Heroes crossover at fanfiction.net.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1288113/1/

Enjoy!  ("Narf!")   :wink:
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