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Author Topic: What might you reject?  (Read 28100 times)
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ShinDangaioh
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« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2005, 01:04:16 AM »

*I've always had one major problem with Green Lantern<>Green Arrow.  Why are you using a interstellar space cop to tell street level stories?  

After I heard that Supegirl had been killed in Crisis, I left DC in disgust.  The only super-hero I was reading was gone.  The start of Crisis was the end of the Silver Age.  But, it ended before that for me.  The last issue of Supergirl and the lie they told by saying that Supergirl and Superboy will be combined into one title.  Then I heard about her 'Secret Marriage' and then that she never existed in the first place.   :evil:
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2005, 01:52:34 AM »

Quote from: "ShinDangaioh"
*I've always had one major problem with Green Lantern<>Green Arrow.  Why are you using a interstellar space cop to tell street level stories?  


Yupper, that was my problem, I was not really indifferent to the issues of society when I was 10, I just could not reckon a Green Lantern being an idiot about it...
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2005, 02:26:59 AM »

But they both have green costumes and the word Green in their name  Tongue  

Seriously, that was the reason  :?
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2005, 02:45:03 AM »

That can work for me... :wink:
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2005, 07:58:19 PM »

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
and being able to see African-American characters show up more and more in 70's stories also probably helps from my perspective (speaking of "Though I can see Linda Danvers with a black boyfriend. She seems like the type.", I'd imagine Linda wouldn't care about her boyfriend's ethnicity; just as long as he's "dreamy"... :-) ).


Heh! I was being facetious there about Supergirl, but it does bring up one interesting aspect about Superman (and Supergirl's) heroism: he is an alien, he is not from the earth.  As a result of this, he does not see the differences that human beings make amongst ourselves to be truly meaningful. Anybody that says Superman's heroism is cookie-cutter doesn't get the character.

As for the black characters of the 1970s, I would consider them more an embarassment than a sign of social progress. Black superheroes in the 1970s came in two varieties:

1) the sidekick of a white superhero (Black Goliath to Giant-Man, the Falcon to Captain America),

2) A street-level guy with a gigantic afro who fights crime in discos (Luke Cage: Power Man, Black Lightning)

The obvious, and perhaps only exception, was the Black Panther, who broke nearly every stereotype: he didn't talk jive, he didn't have an afro, and he prefered Mozart and Bizet over KC and the Sunshine Band. What is it about the Black Panther that his solo efforts always get the best writers? His 1970s Silver Age JUNGLE ACTION series by Don MacGregor was one of the highlights of that decade, and his BLACK PANTHER series by Christopher Priest is one of the few diamonds in the coal of the creative desert that was the 1990s.

There also was the confident, assertive, and devoted to family Monica Rambeau Captain Marvel, but she was created by Roger Stern at the beginning of the 1980s, not the 1970s.


Quote from: "TELLE"
A fun comic for long-term teen and adult fans (I read some issues I bought at a garage sale), but basically points to what is wrong with the last 30-odd years of superhero/adventure comics writing: insularity, continuity obsessions, nerdish nostalgia. Could someone who had never read Avengers appreciate it at all?


Well, as much as I wish that my comics collection could help me score with chicks, alas! There is something inherently nerdy about science fiction and superheroes and that isn't  likely to change no matter how they're written.

And I don't see what you're talking about as a drawback at all. It's a PLUS, not a minus that this story, and many like it, exist in an engrossing, detailed, rich world. Yes, a "new reader" would not know who everyone is at least right away, but the fact that there is so much there to know, the fact there is so much there there is enough to arouse curiosity and fascination: the Forever Crystal, the Immortus/Kang/Rama-Tut dynamic, the android Human Torch, Rick Jones and the Destiny force. It's the greatest hypocrisy that  the same fans that praise Tolkien's LORD OF THE RINGS for his detailed worldbuilding (even down to creating languages!) and rich backdrop of historical events and personalities, excoriate and flay Kurt Busiek and others like him for DOING THE EXACT SAME THING: using well-defined world bursting at the seams with history and depth (except it's one the creators work with and contribute to instead of creating whole cloth like Tolkien did).

One of my ex-girlfriends, when I mentioned how convoluted Avengers history is, only laughed. "Boy, you only think it's complicated because you don't watch soap operas." Seriously, nothing irks me more than the bleating, goggle-vision whining of illiterate anti-history fanboys nodding like bobbleheads when some hack creator like Morrison or Ellis complain that they shouldn't have to have a character behave as they have been shown as behaving.

And if "continuity" is killing comics, then MELROSE PLACE, THE O.C., BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, SMALLVILLE, and DAYS OF OUR LIVES ought to be the least successful shows ever.

Most of my friends that are atheists deny not the fact that God exists, but the various stupid ways of thinking about God: God as a ruthless, nationalistic General that is on the side of one nation or race over another; God as a "Little Mary Sunshine" that never condemns, and so forth. In the same way, the people that honestly don't like what is termed as "continuity" only dislike its incorrect applications at the hand of bad writers. Continuity, at its heart, is a tool for characterization and a history that can be used to create and tell new stories.
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Maximara
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« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2005, 12:08:36 AM »

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
>>The Superman of 2965. They kind of already have a 30th Century with the Legion of Superheroes, which had a much more interesting future world. Saying either one or the other is the true future means the other didn't happen, and if I had to pick one, it would be Legion's.
<<

Which is why they soon retconned his time-era into being *2465*.

Granted, I don't ever recall Professor Zoom, the "Reverse-Flash", mentioning there was a version of Superman running around in his era, seeing as how Zoom was *from* 2465 (or thereabouts; see that "Flash" cover with Barry punching Zoom back to 2465)... ;-)


Except that as Superboy Superman had visited the 50th century (Adventure #279, Dec 1960) and they were just above 30th century tech levels. They even believed that Superboy along with the other heroes of the 20th century were myths on par with Santa Claus, Mercury, and Peter Pan. What happened to the LSH and their technology (like time travel) was never explained. In fact given that by this time Superman had a Fortress  (Action Comics #241 ,1958) which should have had something survive into the 50th century so there were many problems with trips into the future.

By the Bronze age the seperate timelines became accepted canon. In one story a scientist trie dto to tot he LSH 30th century and instead tranformed Metropolis into that of a 30th century where a great war had happened putting animals into control of mankind.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2005, 01:32:37 AM »

All of this is why I think that time travel and continuity have inherently huge problems of co-existing, and why I can cut it some slack...that fact that any individual can time travel introduces that they will, and any LSH member that travels back to see Superboy on a particular timeline (if there is just ONE, and I guess this is true, Superboy/Superman is always aging at the same rate, Braniac 5 didn't travel back to a pre LSH contact time to warn Superboy that SOMEDAY Mr. Mxyptlyk would go psycho), would still use that same technology to travel forward  to any one time where they could gain even more advanced technology or back to a moment where they could have prevented any problem from even occuring...

Maybe I have a premise that time travel cancels continuity, or certainly has that potential!
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NotSuper
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« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2005, 02:03:57 AM »

I'm always interested in threads like this, mostly because I'd like to write a version of Superman's origin myself one of these days.

I've recently written a short story that was partially based on Krypton, but there are no names or dialogue, and it's written in such a way that it could be seen as being either another planet or Earth in the distant future. The way I portrayed these people was to make them very alien, but also to make their culture very beautiful and thriving. That being said, it might be a bit much for some people, so I may go with another of my origin ideas (I have quite a few).
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