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Author Topic: "High" Power Level vs. "Low" Power Level  (Read 50380 times)
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NotSuper
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« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2005, 11:58:24 PM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
Quote from: "NotSuper"
I've been tossing around the idea of Superman not getting his powers from a yellow sun in my head. This would mean that the Kryptonians would have had the same powers as Superman on their own planet, they'd get their powers through years of genetic engineering. "How would that work," you may ask, "wouldn't they just fly away when Krypton was going to explode?" No, they wouldn't fly away because they wouldn't be able to leave their planet. That's right, I'm proposing that the Kryptonians be genetically bonded with their planet. This would be different from the post-Crisis version in that the Kryptonians wouldn't know why they're stuck on their planet. The Raoists would put forth the theory that Rao (the sun itself) was displeased by Krypton and made them unable to leave their home. A more rational theory would be that the Daxamites who seeded the planet put a flaw in the genetic structures of the first Kryptonians (they didn't want them leaving).

Does this mean that Superman will be the last of his race? No, it doesn't. You could still have Kara (with Power Girl's origin) and Kandor (if you wanted it). The Phantom Zone criminals might get the shaft here, though.


That's an interesting take, NotSuper.

But that would imply that their natural invulnerability was somewhere below Krypton-shattering levels or else a mere planetary explosion wouldn't kill them.

One of the chief reasons Kryptonians were changed from having native powers was not only being able to fly away to escape the explosion, but they would be invulnerable to it in the first place.

Of course, the energies to destroy a giant world like Krypton would be far greater than those needed to destroy a more modest planet like Earth, so maybe that's an out here.

I guess depending on the genetic bonding to the planet, that could be another out as well.  If the destroyed planet ceased to have the characteristics their bodies were genetically keyed to, then they'd all die in space despite being otherwise invulnerable.

The genetic bonding is one reason they'd die, but not the main reason. The radiation coming from the planet (which creates green kryptonite) would completely annihilate them. I have a similar version of this idea where the the increased gravity of Krypton keeps the Kryptonians from using their full powers (they're as strong as the Golden Age Superman).

This is only one of my ideas, though. I've always playing scenarios for how Krypton explodes and how Superman gains his powers in my head. It's almost like a hobby of mine.
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Captain Kal
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« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2005, 01:52:16 AM »

OK, guys, here's those references I promised earlier.

Superman (1st series) #321 - 322, Mar. - Apr. 1978, written by Martin Pasko:
The Parasite tricks Superman into thinking he's growing more powerful and out of control (he really stole Superman's holding back reflex).  As Superman grew ever more powerful and unable to control himself, he finally decided to coat his body with a chemical lotion that blocked yellow solar rays and only allowed red ones to strike his body to reduce his powers to normal levels.  It seems without his holding back reflex, our Man of Steel would have normal level super-powers under red sun conditions.

DC Comics Presents #4, Dec. 1978, written by Len Wein:
Ira Quimby's tampering with the sun to boost his own sun-triggered super-intellect also impaired the powers of Superman and the Metal Men.  Superman's non-muscular powers like heat vision and super-senses were nullified and the MM's responsometers were malfunctioning due to the magnetic interference from the increased  sunspot activity (sunspots being redder than the normal sun surface so that would explain Superman's loss).  It must be further noted that despite I.Q.'s heightened super-intelligence and spending days calculating on his blackboard his sun scheme, it only took a glance from our partially-depowered Superman to note Ira's mistake and correct it ("You idiot!  Didn't you bother to triple-check these figures?" "Wh-what are you saying?" "I'm saying you misplaced a decimal point, genius!  According to the proper figures, the sun will soon return to normal, unaided!  Your Chemo-beam will only serve to trigger the nova you hoped to avoid!").  Even non-sun-powered, he manages to outrace the lightspeed Chemo-beam to block it with his body (albeit, he had to strain to beat lightspeed with his powers not solar-energized at that point).

Action Comics #500, Oct. 1979, written by Martin Pasko:
"The Life Story of Superman" shows how both gravity and solar differences both lead to Kryptonian super-powers on Earth.  This was further exemplified in open combat between Luthor and a red sun lamp weakened Superman.  It took an artificial grav field duplicating Krypton's to completely remove all Superman's powers.  See my last post on this earlier on this thread.

Action Comics #515, Jan. 1981, written by Marv Wolfman:
"Agghhh!  Red-sun radiation -- weakening me!"
"How you found out about my weakness I don't know -- But it won't matter, Olsen -- Red sun radiation doesn't eliminate all my power!  And all I need is half my super-strength to destroy a fool like you!"

DC Comics Presents Annual #1, 1982, written by Marv Wolfman:
"These gravity cables are exerting the same gravity force as Krypton ... robbing me of about half my powers!"

I can't find the exact reference right now, but Superboy once wore a yellow version of his blue costume made from spare super-cloth material from making his traditional costume.  He found the yellow material virtually eliminated his solar-based powers so he was left with basically super-strength, super-speed, flight, and weakened invulnerability (his hand stung a bit from handling extremely corrosive acid but wasn't damaged).

Another Action Comics story I can't find the exact reference for just now had a freak alloy form under the Earth that was draining solar rays of all their energy, thus robbing Superman of his power source.  While he still had full command of all his powers, he no longer had the stamina to use any of them.  Only constant super-eating could replace the millions of calories his super-powers burn up every second.
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Captain Kal

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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2005, 02:12:38 AM »

Thanks for the references... Cool

I'm glad I stopped reading comics in the early 70s, it gets convoluted unnecessarily in my mind, to me, ALMOST as big a sin as forgetting the mythos is taking it WAY too seriously...one overinvolved explanation opens larger and larger questions...lets face it, if Krypton was huge and had high gravity there would be zero chance of a biped hominid ever evolving or having a chance to survive if transplanted...
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2005, 02:37:37 AM »

Yes, really!

Actually, only Jerry original origin makes any type of sense.

http://superman.nu/tales2/explanation.php

Once Superman started to fly, we went into fantasy land, of myth and magic and logic went out the window Smiley

So do what I do, try not to think too much about it and just enjoy. Save logic and science for real life.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2005, 02:50:38 AM »

Ya know, that is actually the way its best left for me...seriously...

Life forms as "batteries", with "auras", as genetically "bound" to a planet (other than being a part of the struggle of evolution)...WAY too much for me (just my opinion)...its pseudo science heaped on more pseudo science...again, this is what I feel, no disrespect intended here...

Why couldn't the Bronze Age have focused on a real transfer of generations (real super sons, etc.), new team ups, or truly original enemies (essentially two dimensional energy beings from a real planet with high gravity for example)?  Heaping more science fiction or overwrought solemnity just made it inwardly focused, and add on to that the fake "hip language"...

I will at least offer this as a possibility...people want to blame the Crisis, blame Byrne, blame the economics of the time...but the seeds were already there...in the Bronze Age...just to be controversial... Cool
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« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2005, 02:56:18 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
And while the best writers are ones that combine knowledge and respect for history with good old fashoined storytelling chops (namely, Steve Englehart and Kurt Busiek, arguably two of the five greatest comics writers ever), there are some writers that are consummate fans, yet do not have the ability to create interesting stories, characterize, or create imaginative concepts. An example of this is obviously Mark Gruenwald, who should have been a continuity cop instead of a writer
...

Interesting how I can't think of a single writer who is a great storyteller, but is outright ignorant (or willfully in denial) of comics' history and shared universe. NOT ONE. Apparently, knowing and understanding what you're writing is a part of good writing (imagine that).


Maybe Mr. Gruenwald would be a good assistant editor but the best solution is to have strong editors --as in the Silver Age.  TV shows have bibles for freelance writers, saving writers the task of watching every episode of a series in order to write one.
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NotSuper
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« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2005, 05:05:45 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
So do what I do, try not to think too much about it and just enjoy. Save logic and science for real life.

I feel differently myself. I'd like to see Superman have more of a sci-fi element added to him. That's one of the reasons I'm excited about All-Star Superman.

Superman's powers can be explained in a believable manner, you just need a good writer to do it. As someone who would eventually like to write Superman, it's something that I'm constantly thinking about.
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Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
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« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2005, 05:28:40 AM »

Thanks gawd... Cheesy   What a drab place if everyone agrees...

BUT...c'mon, a scientific explanation?   Cool
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