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Author Topic: "High" Power Level vs. "Low" Power Level  (Read 50344 times)
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2005, 05:45:15 AM »

Quote from: "NotSuper"
Superman's powers can be explained in a believable manner, you just need a good writer to do it. As someone who would eventually like to write Superman, it's something that I'm constantly thinking about.



Are you serious? Sorry, but you really need to read up and study science, but the truth is you would have equal chance of explaining the Tooth Fairy than you would Superman.

You should all read this:

http://www.firstscience.com/site/articles/superman.asp

If you have, then read it again.
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NotSuper
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« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2005, 07:53:39 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
Quote from: "NotSuper"
Superman's powers can be explained in a believable manner, you just need a good writer to do it. As someone who would eventually like to write Superman, it's something that I'm constantly thinking about.



Are you serious? Sorry, but you really need to read up and study science, but the truth is you would have equal chance of explaining the Tooth Fairy than you would Superman.

You should all read this:

http://www.firstscience.com/site/articles/superman.asp

If you have, then read it again.

Have you ever heard the saying that any sufficiently advanced science would be indistinguishable with magic? It's very true in the case of Superman. There's really no difference from trying to come up with scientific explanations for spernatural beings, yet people try to do that all the time.

As I've said previously, I think there should be a significant sci-fi element to Superman. It's something I personality enjoy thinking and reading about. And yes, I have read the different opinions on how Superman's abilities would (or wouldn't) work. I make it a point to constantly read about them, in fact. I haven't yet read The Science of Superman book, but the fact that much of its data has been supplied by real scientists interests me very much.
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Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
Captain Kal
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« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2005, 02:39:17 PM »

I've actually read the full The Science of Super-Heroes book not just that excerpted link.  Gresh and Weinberg made some serious errors in comics canon as well as science themselves in that book.  With the exception of their Batman essay, they basically set out to prove none of the super-heroes could work.

I'm a lot better at science than Gresh & Weinberg and I certainly have the canon facts more completely and accurately.  I'll pick their link apart later on in this thread. Cheesy

The Science of Superman by Mark Wolverton had a very different perspective.  Taking the books as empirical fact, how do we explain them in the context of known or speculative science?  He succeeded fairly well though he had his own errors and problems.

Some fans like this kind of thing. I'm with NotSuper on this.

It adds value to the books esp. in the spirit of the Silver Age.  Writers like Broome and Hamilton liked to consider the implications of super-powers, such as Flash being resistant to the effects of super-speed, then extrapolating from there and incorporating those into actual story elements.  Heck, even in the Golden Age, bright writers extrapolated from the power of X-ray vision that Superman could use it for affecting things from which eventually grew the canon power of Heat Vision.

Do not downplay the importance of scientific extrapolation in the books.

OTOH, if it's done badly and doesn't add value to the stories, then it fails.  But that goes for any fictional effort, scientific or not.
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RedSunOfKrypton
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« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2005, 02:53:59 PM »

This is actually one of my favorite hobbies as CK can attest. I totally am with you guys as to the importance of the Sci in SciFi.
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« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2005, 07:52:26 PM »

Quote from: "MatterEaterLad"
Thanks for the references... Cool

Ditto!  I wasn't aware of any "red sun doesn't weaken him completely" pre-Crisis stories.  I love the ones where his powers were by only half.  "Great Krypton!  I can only juggle a half-dozen planets at once!"  I'm surprised that got past Schwartz.  

Quote
I'm glad I stopped reading comics in the early 70s, it gets convoluted unnecessarily in my mind, to me, ALMOST as big a sin as forgetting the mythos is taking it WAY too seriously...one overinvolved explanation opens larger and larger questions...lets face it, if Krypton was huge and had high gravity there would be zero chance of a biped hominid ever evolving or having a chance to survive if transplanted...

They'd definitely have to be modified for the environment before being plopped on the planet, and things would get really complex if humanoid aesthetics were a priority.  Of course, without a solid frame of reference, a young kid isn't likely to "get" a story involving some inhuman alien, and that's nontrivial in a comic book context.  

As for the "science" of Superman and speculative fiction in general, it's helpful to have a firm sense of what the rules are and to solve problems within the context of said rules.  Ideally, the rules should make for good and diverse kinds of story telling, especially for a world you're expecting the reader to live in for awhile.  Even with comics that aren't really about speculative fiction, the humor is often against a backdrop of consistency and archetype.

Ok, enough ranting for one post.  Smiley  Thanks again for those references.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2005, 08:39:08 PM »

I think I essentially agree with you, my point is that a limited science fiction is going to be necessary, along with its problems, its just that more and more getting stacked (auras, solar batteries, etc) on makes it a little crazy for me...it takes suspension of the rational and makes it even more silly...
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2005, 09:44:23 PM »

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its just that more and more getting stacked (auras, solar batteries, etc) on makes it a little crazy for me...it takes suspension of the rational and makes it even more silly...


The more science you consider and place into a story the faker and sillier everything appears.
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NotSuper
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« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2005, 10:28:48 PM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
Some fans like this kind of thing. I'm with NotSuper on this.

Indeed. Adding science to a story (when it's done well) can be incredibly rewarding. It's something that I'd like to see done more in the current books.

Quote
Do not downplay the importance of scientific extrapolation in the books.

Again, I agree. Superman is essentially a science fiction character, even when the explanations for his powers didn't make much sense. Legendary science fiction writers like John W. Campbell would sometimes use faulty science in their stories as well. Personally, I'd like to write a Superman story which brought back the "Man of Tomorrow" elements that the character is currently missing.

Superman's powers should make sense in the context of his universe by using real or speculative science. In my view, fantasy is the domain of Captain Marvel and science fiction SHOULD be the domain of Superman.
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Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
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