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Author Topic: Alan Moore's Super-Stories!  (Read 16289 times)
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Gangbuster
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« on: August 20, 2005, 05:10:54 AM »

I've been a part of crazy Super-fandom for about a year now. Thanks, Superman Through the Ages!

Anyway...I've read all 3 of Alan Moore's initial Superman stories, plus Supreme: The Story of the Year...all are great.

I've even located the unpublished Twilight of the Superheroes proposal...but there is one Superman story by Alan Moore that I've been able to find nothing about. His unpublished graphic novel, Superman Burns in Hell.

I know it's out there...does anybody know where I could find a proposal, etc. for this story? The title seems to peak my interest, and I can't help it...
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2005, 05:33:55 AM »

DC Killed it in favor of a certain someone that nearly everyone here hates with deep seated passion Wink

Here is the tidbit:

"He also had a couple of Superman projects which never appeared, one of which was a graphic novel called Superman Burns in Hell and the other being a new, monthly team-up title called Superman Plus (insert childhood favourite here, folks). Both projects were nixed by Byrne's incoming Superman revamp, but Moore was offered the chance to work with Byrne on the team-up title providing he stuck to Byrne's plots. Moore's brilliant reply was that sure, he'd be happy to… providing Byrne inked Moore's pencils."


Great Caesar's Ghost were DC ever stupid back then, what the heck were those editors smoking?
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Genis Vell
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2005, 07:33:54 AM »

Moore's Superman stories had a strange fate, here. "For the man who has everything" and "Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?" have 2 editions, while DC COMICS PRESENTS #85 is unpublished! I needed a lot of time, but I found it at Mile High comics months ago.

My 2 cents (of €, you know!).

SUPERMAN ANNUAL #11: a good story. Here is considered a masterpiece only because "It's Moore's!". Today comics are too expensive to judge them only 'cause their credits box, so I don't care of who wrote it... I repeat it, it's a good story, but I hoped it was better. And it's too similar to "Terror in a tiny town" by John Byrne (from his run on FF).

SUPERMAN #423/ACTION #583: one of the stories in my top 3, alongside the MAN OF STEEL limited series and "Who took out the super from the Superman". I love it, even if it's sad to see the end of Superman... Only reading tons of Silver/Bronze Age issues I understood how tragic this story is. Lana, Jimmy, the villains... All dead. A legend in the dust.
And, I can't forget it, Cust Swan made a GREAT work.

DC COMICS PRESENTS #85: nice. Among the 3 stories, this deserve the 2nd prize, in my opinion. Moore was very able to show Kal's pain...
Odd thing: when I first read this story, I had a big headache, so I felt myself very involved!
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2005, 01:32:50 PM »

Well, one thing's for sure: SUPERMAN BURNS IN HELL would be a really, really awesome Rasputina or Judas Priest album cover. In fact, the only way I could possibly improve on the title is by adding some exclamation points. SUPERMAN BURNS IN HELL!!! (see the difference?)

Though I don't know if we'd want an Alan Moore story told from this particular period - after CAPTAIN BRITAIN, MIRACLEMAN and SWAMP THING, all of which were legendarily imaginative, well plotted, and mindblowing in every single way, he gave us very dreary, boring, flat works like WATCHMEN. In addition to the slow paced plotting (did it REALLY require 12 issues to tell?) and unecessary characters...worst of all, Alan Moore is a funny guy, and in this period we see very little of Alan Moore's sense of humor. (Though WATCHMEN had one tidbit of the old Alan Moore we know and love that always makes me laugh: while discussing one criminal who wore a costume because he got off on being beaten up, when asked what happened to him, Night Owl responds "Oh, he tried it on Rorshach and the guy was pushed down an elevator shaft.")

While WATCHMEN is still better than most comics out today, it wasn't done when Alan Moore was in his best and most productive "mood" - and certainly not the kind of mood that is best for Superman.

I'm just rationalizing, of course, to keep from banging my forehead against the wall constantly in frustration when I remember that ALAN-FREAKIN'-MOORE could have been writing a regular Superman Comic.

Incidentally, great diss by Moore to Byrne. Remind me never to get into a "Your-Momma's-So-Fat" contest with the guy.

If we're talking about my buddy Alan Moore's Superman stories, obviously the top one was WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW? What can I possibly say about this that everyone else here hasn't said?

Interesting thing I've noticed about MAN OF TOMORROW: at first, when reading it I thought it was George Perez (no relation) doing the pencils instead of Curt Swan. George has this very distinctive inking style of doing thousands of itty bitty lines, and even if he just does the inks alone, it still "looks" like a George Perez comic.

Alan Moore's greatest Superman story I think, was SUPREME. Most comics have a trippy or imaginative idea every year, or in the case of the really great ones, once every issue. SUPREME, though, had a trippy idea averaging ONCE A PAGE. There was a trophy in the back of the 40s ALLIED SUPERMEN H.Q. that was marked "HELIOS, KING OF THE SUN." Whoa. They have a King of the Sun now? Sure, it helps that Supreme was based on the blueprint of Superman, but that doesn't make any of Alan Moore's ideas any more mindblowing. Thousands of superpowered puppies that chase cars - and actually catch them to bury in the backyard, breaking into a museum to get at the dinosaur bones. Travelling in Hyperspace, they see themselves leaving BEFORE they've even arrived. WOW.

I did not like SUPERMAN ANNUAL #11 ("For the Man Who Has Everything") as much as lots of people seem to. For one thing, Superman was characterized all wrong. Superman has been established as idolizing his utopian native planet, and his father as a hero who sacrificed himself and his wife so that their son would have a chance at life. This sacrifice has inspired Superman to continually be self-sacrificing himself. So, Superman, given the chance, dreams of his heroic father as being a ranting crackpot? I cannot seriously believe that Superman, the ultimate idealist, is so cynical that he imagines his native world as a dystopia racked by social injustice and rioting.  Another work produced by Alan Moore, in his own words: "When I was in a bad mood."

Quote from: "SuperMonkey"
Great Caesar's Ghost were DC ever stupid back then, what the heck were those editors smoking?


When it comes to DC editors, their great decisions are inverse to the amount of mescaline being huffed around the office at any given time. It wasn't that they were doing too much drugs - it was that they weren't doing enough.  Cheesy
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Gangbuster
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2005, 02:14:36 PM »

I was born in the very latter Bronze age, and therefore didn't read any good Superman comics when I was a kid...except for some Superboy comics that I bought at a flea market. Like  a lot of kids, I read the Death of Superman stuff, and then quit reading comics.

1.5 years ago, I was working at a tech support place and very bored...so I started buying graphic novels to read at work. I bought Crisis on Infinite Earths, and was horrified. Then I bought 'Many Happy Returns' and was saddened again by what happened to Supergirl.

And then I bought "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" After reading it, I just kind of sat there, stunned. Any interest I had in reading post-Crisis comics was cured. Now I'm a giant Superman fan, that's where my money goes....SOMEBODY STOP ME!!!
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Maximara
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2005, 03:43:34 PM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"

I did not like SUPERMAN ANNUAL #11 ("For the Man Who Has Everything") as much as lots of people seem to. For one thing, Superman was characterized all wrong. Superman has been established as idolizing his utopian native planet, and his father as a hero who sacrificed himself and his wife so that their son would have a chance at life. This sacrifice has inspired Superman to continually be self-sacrificing himself. So, Superman, given the chance, dreams of his heroic father as being a ranting crackpot? I cannot seriously believe that Superman, the ultimate idealist, is so cynical that he imagines his native world as a dystopia racked by social injustice and rioting.  


Well to be fair by this time Krypton had become more 'gilded'. It had been revealed as early as the Jewel K story that some zone criminal were social dissidents and the late Silver and through out Bronze age versions of the origin the Science Council threaten to zone Jor-El if he even tried to warn anyone. Also anyone who landed on Krypton in these versions of the origin risked imprisonment.

It was becoming painfully obvious when it came to Krypton SUperman had blinders on. He either could not or would not see the flaws at least on a councious level but he might have seen them at a suconcious level.
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lonewolf23k
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2005, 09:47:41 PM »

The way I see the Dream version of Krypton in "For the Man who has Everything" was that Superman's subconscious was actually fighting the dream, and twisting it subtly to make Superman realize how wrong everything was..
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Captain Kal
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2005, 01:26:08 AM »

I'm afraid I must come to the defense of Moore's "For the Man Who Has Everything".

While Moore has a tendency to have a dark streak in his works, I found much of that mind-drama made sense.

It's not that Jor-El should be considered a crackpot.  It's what he would have been considered had Krypton not exploded.  The Science Council had already dismissed him as a nutcase for proclaiming Krypton's doom.  Certainly, that assessment would've been borne out if Krypton had survived.  Jor's credibility had already sunk as low as it could have gone in the real world.  The only thing that restored some of it was the actual explosion instants before everybody died.

The idea that the enlightened Kryptonians might have moral qualms about the Phantom Zone sentences makes sense in hindsight and Moore should be applauded for this idea.

The logical extension that members of the House of El would be tainted by being associated with Jor (the crackpot who tried to start a panic about a fake doomsday and the father of the torture device of the age) also makes sense ... Up to Kara Zor-El being victimized for being an El, and Van having to be safeguarded from other El-haters.

Lyla Lerrol mysteriously being Kal-El's age and marrying him is a bit of a stretch.  It fits with the fantasy-wish-fulfilment angle so I'm letting it go.  Maybe in the real world, Kryptonians didn't have as strict a POV about age gaps?

Again, in a real scenario where Krypton did not die, Jor certainly would have been considered a crackpot, even without the Phantom Zone.  Given the history built up by the Silver Age, Moore's mind-drama made perfect sense, albeit, disturbingly.  And disturbing is a word I've come to associate a lot with Moore's work -- but in a nice way.
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