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Author Topic: Preview: ALL STAR SUPERMAN #1  (Read 47826 times)
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Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2005, 02:29:42 PM »

ME- Well in my case, 73 brought me to art school and I went from wanting to read & darw comic books to doinf comic strips to be an illustrator. How I ended up where I did is beyond me.

I also found the other things to do besides read funny books  :twisted:
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2005, 02:45:22 PM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
There are talented people born in every generation. There are talented people out there now, most of them consigned to fringe books (Dan Slott), retired (Alan Moore), marginalized or ignored completely (Christopher Priest, Jim Shooter) or chewed up and spit out by a comic industry that doesn't appreciate their great worth (Steve Englehart, Elliot S! Maggin, and since his JLA firing, it looks like Kurt Busiek too).

Amongst the folks who have written prominent Superman stories:

I didn't think Busiek was fired.  What I'd read was he got sick again.  Note that he was only hired to do a limited story arc, not be the permanent JLA guy, and that he really wanted to do more of a CSA story arc with the JLA was guest stars but the powers that be Denied Creativity.  

Alan Moore is only retired from "mainstream" comic books.  I'll wager that his retirement is like a comic book death.

My suspicion is that Maggin intellectualizes himself out of more work than anything else.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2005, 08:24:06 PM »

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
I didn't think Busiek was fired.  What I'd read was he got sick again.  Note that he was only hired to do a limited story arc, not be the permanent JLA guy, and that he really wanted to do more of a CSA story arc with the JLA was guest stars but the powers that be Denied Creativity.  


That's not what I heard.

I heard he was going to be the regular writer on the book. I've heard differently since, but that sounds like rewriting history. His eight issue arc bears this out. We see this in the appearance of extended plot threads that were left open in his JLA arc: the fact the CSA now owe the JLA a favor, the presence of the Cosmic Egg from JLA/AVENGERS...Kurt obviously had long-term plans. In interviews, he said he wanted to include Hawkman, Elongated Man, Atom, and Red Tornado in the League; they made guest-appearances, but would Kurt make a big bluster about how he wants them on the roster again if all he does is squeeze them in the back in a couple of fight scenes? I don't buy it.

And I especially don't buy DC's reasoning about Kurt's removal from the books, and not just for reasons of kneejerk disbelief. As a general rule, if a corporation says one thing, it's safe to believe the opposite is true. Their particular reasoning here is particularly cracked: Kurt wrote several years of AVENGERS at the *height* of his illness. Why would they kick him off JLA for that reason, if he has been shown to be able to work despite the problems with his health? It was an excuse, pure and simple, to give Mr. Silver Age the chop.  

Telling a CSA story with the JLA as guest-stars is pretty much what he did do in many ways - Kurt, as always showing his talent for creating detailed, real-seeming worlds (if he didn't write comics he would make a wonderful science fiction writer) was able to make the CSA world a more colorful and real place than any other writer before.

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
Alan Moore is only retired from "mainstream" comic books. I'll wager that his retirement is like a comic book death.


They say "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me," but I still wept every time Michael Jordan retired.

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
My suspicion is that Maggin intellectualizes himself out of more work than anything else.


What do you mean?
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
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« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2005, 11:31:34 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
I really think that DC should do away with continuity period. Instead take the James Bond approach.

continuity is WAY overrated.


There are many good examples of good writing done with insular "bottle" stories, like for instance, the entirety of Gardner Fox's JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA.

But there are even more examples of even better writing done using subplots and extended story arcs that unfold over various issues. What would Steve Englehart's DETECTIVE COMICS be without Rupert Thorne plagued by Dr. Hugo Strange's ghost or Silver St. Cloud gradually discovering Batman's true identity? What would Kurt Busiek's AVENGERS be without Ms. Marvel's quest for redemption from alcoholism, or the Vision/Scarlet Witch/Wonder Man love triangle?

No one wants page-killing subplots that never get resolved. However, extended story arcs that have definite resolutions lead to a greater involvement with a comic title for the reason that they allow moments for characterization, strengthen worldbuilding, provide something to do for everyone in the comic (especially important for team books) and most importantly of all provide a bigger payoff for the reader because the stories are allowed to unfold in more than one issue.

The fact is, comic books are defined by their extended stories, not by their individual single issue stories. You may not remember the plot of a single issue of MARVEL FAMILY, but who could ever forget the 2 year long battle against the Monster Society of Evil, led by the mysterious voice on the speakerbox, Mr. Mind? You may not remember the plot of a single issue of Steve Englehart's DEFENDERS, but who could ever forget their yearlong quest to restore the Black Knight from petrification, with the Valkyrie gradually falling in love with a man that had been turned to stone? And who could forget Steve Gerber's METAL MEN, where Doc Magnus temporarily went insane and then recovered his sanity with help from his robot creations, only to find he had set up various traps all over the world (okay, not as famous, but still a good story)?

True, not all writers can write extended story arcs well. Then again, not all writers can write anything at all well, either.

"Continuity" is the use of history to create stronger characterization, and the utterly indispenseable resource of a nearly infinite supply of gadgets, villains, supporting cast, countries and alternate dimensions, a databank of history that can always be used to inspire and tell new tales. It immortalizes great stories and provides a launching pad for future ones. It even can do what alchemy failed to, and turned lead into gold, as it provides a framework to allow poor stories to make sense, as long as there is a context to put them in. Continuity is GOOD - why, continuity is downright wonderful!

Imagine if Kurt Busiek had been forced to kowtow to the demands of bleating, whiny anti-continuity "fans," and was forced to treat "Ultron Unlimited" like it was the first appearance of Ultron ever. The story would have been all the poorer because the fact that Ultron had history with the Avengers that made everything personal. The stakes were raised, characterizations were tense, and plot points suggested themselves all because there was a past and a history that made "Ultron Unlimited" far more successful than if it just featured Joe Supervillain.

Continuity doesn't push away new readers at all. On the other hand, lack of continuity, making characters shallow, oversimplified versions of themselves, prevents the creation of future comics fans because there's just not enough there for them to get involved with.
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
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« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2005, 01:14:33 PM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
There are many good examples of good writing done with insular "bottle" stories, like for instance, the entirety of Gardner Fox's JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA.



So you are agreeing with me?

I think you missed one of my posts on page 4 :wink:
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2005, 03:16:33 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
I didn't think Busiek was fired.  What I'd read was he got sick again.

That's not what I heard.

Check out:
http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=56796318&start=1740&tstart=0
Busiek himself says:
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I won't be the regular writer on JLA after all -- by my own choice. I've been having trouble with the deadlines, as has Ron, and I ultimately came to the conclusion that on a book that requires this much coordination, that ties in with so much of the DCU, I simply can't manage a monthly schedule, not with my current health. I'd still like to do the book regularly, but it'll have to be another time.


FWIW, he's vocal in a number of forums besides this DC-owned one (Newsarama, rec.arts.comics.* on Usenet, etc.) and hasn't said anything untoward about DC on this.  He's not afraid to speak his mind, AFAICT.

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Alan Moore is only retired from "mainstream" comic books. I'll wager that his retirement is like a comic book death.

They say "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me," but I still wept every time Michael Jordan retired.

That just shows you're not a Pistons fan.  

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My suspicion is that Maggin intellectualizes himself out of more work than anything else.

What do you mean?

I dunno...  just a gut feeling hunch based off this bio:
http://www.maggin.com/Bang/bio.cfm
He just strikes me as one of those who thinks himself into a rut.
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NotSuper
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« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2005, 04:30:19 AM »

Busiek posts quite often at Millarworld. There's even a thread where you can ask him questions, which he almost always answers. In fact, I've done this before myself. He seems like a pretty cool guy.

Anyway, will this preview be up in the All Star section of the site soon?
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Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
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« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2005, 07:04:53 AM »

The art is hideous.  But Morrison condensing the orign to four panels was a nice touch.
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