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Author Topic: Preview: ALL STAR SUPERMAN #1  (Read 38602 times)
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2005, 09:14:03 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
1) All his men tend to look alike. This is also known as "John Byrne Syndrome." If all the men look alike, there's really nothing special about the Clark Kent/Superman identity at the heart of this whole story, because...well...ANYBODY looks like he could be Superman! Granted, many artists suffered from that same problem, but it's especially noticeable with Chris Sprouse; compare, for instance, how much his Supreme and Tom Strong look alike.

Tom Strong is sort of a reworking of Supreme.  It'd be disappointing if they didn't look like each other.  FWIW, here's Sprouse's Superman, in the same vein (IMO, having something of a Curt Swan feel to it):

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nightwing
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« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2005, 03:14:00 PM »

Julian Perez writes:

Quote
1) All his men tend to look alike. This is also known as "John Byrne Syndrome." If all the men look alike, there's really nothing special about the Clark Kent/Superman identity at the heart of this whole story, because...well...ANYBODY looks like he could be Superman! Granted, many artists suffered from that same problem, but it's especially noticeable with Chris Sprouse; compare, for instance, how much his Supreme and Tom Strong look alike.


Yes, but in Sprouse's case at least his men look good!  Byrne's men are not attractive and what's worse, his women look just like the men only with longer hair and thinner necks.

In my opinion, no artist was ever worse about drawing identical faces than Joe Shuster.  I can honeslty say that without the text boxes I often would not have known who was doing what to whom.


Quote
) Chris Sprouse doesn't draw good looking women. For instance: Look at SUPREME #15. Here we have the Adult League of Infinity: there's Witch Wench, with her black lipstick, slinky black opera dress and long black evening gloves, and Futurewoman, with her Emma Peel style catsuit. Yet, somehow, neither of them were really "hubba hubba" worthy. Perhaps it's an intentional choice on his part - and there is something to be said for the very grotesque way women have been portrayed as sexual objects in comic books read mainly by teenage boys, giving a comic book store an air of sleaze. I for one, have no intention of defending costumes put on with a glue pot; it's a gross, mysoginistic trend. But isn't there a pleasant middle between Image-Comics exploitation and Chris Sprouse asexuality? All I'm saying is, there's something wrong if you can't make Witch Wench look good.


I'll half-way disagree with you here, I think Chris' women are pretty.  They are not "Va-va-voom" pretty, however, and maybe that's essential to modern comics.  I think he draws females in the Curt Swan mode...pretty in a wholesome kind of way, but never in a million years what you'd call hot or provocative.  And on Superman, I wouldn't mind that.  I have never taken well to attempts to draw Lois Lane as a sex kitten.

If Sprouse has a "weakness" it's that his art, like Swan's and that of Dave Gibbons, seems to lack a certain "punch"...there is never the feeling of frenetic action (let alone giddy chaos) pioneered by Jack Kirby and so ubiquitous in this post-Marvel Age.  He and Gibbons tap nicely into that polished, Silver Age DC look ala Swan and Klein or Kane and Anderson, but they seem out of place in an era of crash-bang action and violence.  

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If anybody from the ABC Line could do Superman well, my money would be on Rick Veitch


Well if we're recruiting from ABC, I want Art Adams.  If nothing else, for a one-shot battle against Titano and King Krypton!
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« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2005, 05:31:31 PM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
Well if we're recruiting from ABC, I want Art Adams.  If nothing else, for a one-shot battle against Titano and King Krypton!


Heck, it's Art Adams! Make it a full story with every ape and MONKEY character and the Flame Dragon too Smiley

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Category:Super-Apes


P.S. And Moles too, got to have moles Smiley
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lonewolf23k
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« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2005, 02:23:54 PM »

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Quote from: "Great Rao"
If I like the comic when it comes out (ie, if it's real Superman instead of Carlin Superman); and if I like your review - then I'll put it up on the site.

S!


I hope so too Smiley

Actual Quote



Morrison: As far as Superman is concerned, we’re not re-doing origin stories or unpacking classic narratives. We don’t go back to the beginning again, we start from where our Superman is RIGHT NOW and get straight into the action - almost as if he's had 20 years of alternative continuity going on behind the scenes of John Byrne's revision in 1985 - on a different Hypertime line, if you like. I'm trying to think of it as the re-emergence of the original, pre-Crisis Superman but with 20 years of history we haven't seen.

From that platform, it's a total update, rehaul and refit. Having said that, we expect everyone in the world to know Superman’s origins and have a basic grasp of the relationships of the Planet staff so, as I say, there’s no time wasted on a retelling of the backstory. We deal with the origin of Superman on page 1 and then we’re off into space for a big, new adventure, the way life’s meant to be.


Woo!  What's not to like about that idea?   Cheesy
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2005, 09:33:01 PM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
Yes, but in Sprouse's case at least his men look good!  Byrne's men are not attractive and what's worse, his women look just like the men only with longer hair and thinner necks.


That's true - I'm not denying that Chris Sprouse is a clean, correct artist who is amazing to look at.

In many ways, the most compelling and distinctive woman that Chris Sprouse ever drew was Dhalua Strong, for the simple reason that she always had a slightly ticked-off expression, separating her from his other characters.

Quote from: "nightwing"
In my opinion, no artist was ever worse about drawing identical faces than Joe Shuster.  I can honeslty say that without the text boxes I often would not have known who was doing what to whom.


With all respect due to the co-creator of Superman, I always thought there was something amateurish about Shuster's art. DC, apparently, agreed with me for decades, and for a long time refused to reprint any work by Shuster.

Jerry Siegel, on the other hand, was a wonderful writer, who made more additions to Superman than just about any other writer, and whose stories have incredible poignance (like RETURN TO KRYPTON) or imaginative power (Martian Ice Cream in the first Legion of Super-Heroes appearance).

Quote from: "nightwing"
I'll half-way disagree with you here, I think Chris' women are pretty.  They are not "Va-va-voom" pretty, however, and maybe that's essential to modern comics.  I think he draws females in the Curt Swan mode...pretty in a wholesome kind of way, but never in a million years what you'd call hot or provocative.  And on Superman, I wouldn't mind that.  I have never taken well to attempts to draw Lois Lane as a sex kitten.


I don't know - I always thought the Lois Lane that appeared on the Nick Cardy SUPERMAN FAMILY covers worked pretty well, though not everybody can draw women like Nick Cardy can.

Quote from: "nightwing"
If Sprouse has a "weakness" it's that his art, like Swan's and that of Dave Gibbons, seems to lack a certain "punch"...there is never the feeling of frenetic action (let alone giddy chaos) pioneered by Jack Kirby and so ubiquitous in this post-Marvel Age.  He and Gibbons tap nicely into that polished, Silver Age DC look ala Swan and Klein or Kane and Anderson, but they seem out of place in an era of crash-bang action and violence.  


This is true. The battles in SUPREME that were the most visually astonishing are the ones done by Rick Veitch - witness for instance, the two Supremas chucking lightning bolts at one another. The less interesting battle sequence in terms of POW was the Supreme battle against the escaped criminals in the Hell of Mirrors.

If I could include inkers, I would have to say John Totleben, who is one of the few artists that is best seen ONLY in black and white.
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« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2005, 12:02:14 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"

Quote from: "nightwing"
In my opinion, no artist was ever worse about drawing identical faces than Joe Shuster.  I can honeslty say that without the text boxes I often would not have known who was doing what to whom.


With all respect due to the co-creator of Superman, I always thought there was something amateurish about Shuster's art. DC, apparently, agreed with me for decades, and for a long time refused to reprint any work by Shuster.

Jerry Siegel, on the other hand, was a wonderful writer, who made more additions to Superman than just about any other writer, and whose stories have incredible poignance (like RETURN TO KRYPTON) or imaginative power (Martian Ice Cream in the first Legion of Super-Heroes appearance).


Jerry Siegel is one of my favorite Superman writers, let's face it, no one got Superman better than the guy who created him Smiley

Poor Joe Shuster gets a bum's rap. He is nowhere near as bad as people think he was, he just couldn't draw fast, so his comic book work looks primitive.

However when he was allowed to take his time, he came up with things like this:

http://www.metropolis1.net/Superman/Superman%20Painting.jpg

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/asimov/20/capit9.html

http://www.leconcombre.com/serials/superman/LoisLane-Shuster-1.jpg
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« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2005, 02:34:21 AM »

SuperMonkey, that first image is actually by the noted pulp cover artist, H.J. Ward, as documented in Daniels' "Complete History" and elsewhere.  It is pretty awesome, though, isn't it?  (Plus it looks like Ronald Reagan, which is a hoot).

A lot of historians are of the opinion that Shuster's "cartoony" look was perfect for Superman, and it's the more detailed, realistic and "correct" artists that miss the point.  Steranko wrote:

Though there was evidence of Foster's Tarzan in Shuster's work (including numerous action swipes), there was none of the explicit anatomical definition the character seemed to require.  In fact, the art embodied the quality of an editorial cartoon style, place somwhere between Calkins and Andriola.  Blacks were gratuitous.

Nevertheless, the drawing was solid, persuasively charming and functional, embracing an unpretentious simplicity that WAS early comic books."


I suppose it did have a certain urgency about it, and maybe kids could relate to it as something that looked like it was drawn by another kid.  But I have to confess I like my art a little more polished.  (Bob Kane would make the same argument about his work, incidentally -- supposedly his stuff was crude because he MEANT it to be, and he derided the more detailed work of his "ghosts" Infantino, Adams, etc.  Only Bob Kane would have the nerve to claim his inferiority made him the best!  :roll:  Or for that matter, the nerve to call Infantino and Adams -- and Miller and the rest til his death -- his "ghosts.")
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« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2005, 02:50:23 AM »

LOL...

Everything in its time...

There are no absolutes... Cool
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