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Author Topic: Preview: ALL STAR SUPERMAN #1  (Read 38488 times)
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 05:59:12 PM »

There's not any shared continuity or universe between "All-Star Batman", "All-Star Superman", "All-Star Wonder Woman" (which I think is the next one in the pipe), etc. unlike the Marvel Ultimate universe.  

Besides "All-Star" creators, the intent is for there to be more of an "iconic" representation of the characters as well, kinda like the Alex Ross giant-size "Peace On Earth".
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2005, 07:15:36 PM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
I believe this is DC aping Marvel's Ultimate books.

IOW, milking existing characters/books by spinning off an entirely new continuity for them divorced from the mainstream.


An astute observation.

I find myself intrigued by the concept of All-Star DC (though I am hardly Grant Morrison's biggest fan, at least he has shown to understand who Superman is, unlike other writers). Though at the same time, I find myself terrified by the concept of Ultimates.

Part of the reason All-Star DC is so much more a breath of fresh air is because as a result of constant revisionism to iconic characters particularly in the past few decades, "DC Continuity" has become an oxymoron. As a result of miniseries like HAWKWORLD and MAN OF STEEL, it is unclear what has happened where. Who the heck is Hawkman these days? Was Superman ever in the Justice League? Was it Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman's Mother, or Liberty Belle that was in the JSA? Who really knows? The point of continuity is to have a concrete history, and the moment the revisionist bug started biting, issues had to be thrown out, which defeats the entire purpose of a continuity: that stories wouldn't be thrown away.

"But Julian," you say, "what's the big deal, baby? I mean, it's all fictional characters, right? What's wrong with the DC Universe occasionally being outright contradictory? Paul Bunyan has various mutually contradictory stories."

The problem with this is, we are not supposed to accept Paul Bunyan as "real." But we are to do the same with the DC characters because we want to have an emotional investment in them. Everybody talks about Paul Bunyan, but nobody really cares about him. Fictional worlds are more impressive and memorable the more real they seem. Look at the legions of fans around novels like DUNE and LORD OF THE RINGS.

This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact the revisions were clueless and detached from who the characters are. Obviously the most offensive was John Byrne's MAN OF STEEL in terms of his failure to grasp what the character of Superman is all about. These also include Howard Chaykin's TWILIGHT, which changed the previously clean-limbed, milk-drinking DC Space Heroes into sleazy sex fiends. This happened in the excesses of HAWKWORLD, where now not only do the brilliant silver age Hawkman stories no longer serve as possible resources for future stories, it isn't even clear exactly what the deal is with Hawkman anymore.

So, in this atmosphere of revisionists having killed the goose that laid the golden egg, can it be that I'm actually LOOKING FORWARD to a Grant Morrison comic?

Hey, stranger things have happened.  Cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2005, 07:41:11 PM »

well, there are now rumors that both of these All-Star series might be just limited series. In other words there will only be 12 issues of all star Superman, just like Birthright.
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NotSuper
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2005, 02:11:08 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
well, there are now rumors that both of these All-Star series might be just limited series. In other words there will only be 12 issues of all star Superman, just like Birthright.

Maybe these are "tests" to see if DC can actually make an Ultimate-esque universe successful?

DC seems to try stuff like that before actually changing things. For example, look at Krypton and Supergirl. Before the Birthright Krypton was created a "new" version of the planet was presented in the RTK storyline. This Krypton was later shown to be a fake and the real Krypton was revised to be more like the classic Krypton. With Supergirl, we had PAD bring in the original Kara before, who eventually went back to the place she belonged. Not that soon afterwards, the real post-Crisis Kara came to Earth.

That being said, I'm hoping that this title isn't just a maxi-series. Morrison wasn't kidding about using EVERY version of the Superman mythos. Jor-El and Lara's clothes, for example, have elements of the Golden Age, Silver/Bronze Age, the Donner movies, the Iron Age, and the Birthright Krypton.
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Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
JulianPerez
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2005, 02:19:07 AM »

Here's a question: if "All-Star-ization" continues, will the effects it yields be positive or negative?

I for one, think that in the short term the effects will be positive: we're getting artists and writers that like the characters wanting to do them in the classic mode who do not want to worry about Manchester Black or Cat Grant (who the hell is that?), or about the gimmicky "event comic" super-marriage or worrying that Superman might turn electric. I don't have any faith in Grant Morrison at all, but at least he gets who Superman is - something that can't be said about the mental inbreeding that goes on in the Super-Offices, where bad concepts and bad interpretations are recycled.

In the long term, though, I think the effects will ultimately be negative. I don't know about you, but I think a character's history, their past adventures, and what they have experienced and done is much more interesting than their powers, costume, and their code-name. This is why I am infuriated by the Ultimates; the Avengers that never fought Kang in the Celestial Madonna, never saw the marriage of the Vision and the Scarlet Witch, and never had Captain America and Hawkeye first fight and then become allies...well, they're not the Avengers at all. We'll see Grant Morrison's Brainiac, then after he leaves, we'll see Mark Millar's Brainiac, then possibly Geoff Johns' Brainiac...all mutually contradictory, all conflicting views.

There is a story about a coffee shop owner who had various labels on his coffee, like raspberry coffee, almond and nut coffee, and so on. He had a puckish sense of humor, so he labeled one "coffee-flavored coffee." Here's the strange part: far and away, "coffee-flavored coffee" became the bestselling flavor. I don't want Geoff Johns-flavored Brainiac or Grant Morrison-flavored Brainiac; I want Brainiac-flavored Brainiac.

True, characters like Superman and Brainiac change over time and each writer and artist leave their mark on them. But this becomes their history of how they grow and change. Treating them like Shakespeare plays that every production strives to leave their mark on, treats them as marketing icons, like Buster Brown on his shoes. While perhaps some real DC Continuity is too much to ask for, would it hurt to have characters at least remember their previous stories?

Another long-term problem with the "All Star" mentality is that it ignores history in favor of what is viewed by the artists as "the essential aspects of a character." Consider, for example, someone doing an "All-Star JLA." Obviously you'd have the Big Seven, and maybe one or two characters that are the writers' pet favorite or obsession like maybe Plastic Man, Steel, or Orion. They'd never go anywhere near characters that while are not as large as marketing icons as the so-called Big Seven, but are nonetheless functional and enjoyable members of the Justice League. I don't just read JLA for Batman and Wonder Woman. I read it for Zatanna, the Elongated Man, the Atom, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman, and Red Tornado.
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2005, 03:15:40 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Another long-term problem with the "All Star" mentality is that it ignores history in favor of what is viewed by the artists as "the essential aspects of a character." Consider, for example, someone doing an "All-Star JLA."


Well, Alex Ross's Justice series is pretty much that, it is also outside of normal continuity.

The way I look at it is this, MY DC universe is no more, Crisis took care of that. MY Superman is no more, Man of Steel took care of him.

They will never, ever come back besides reprint TPBs.

So I really couldn't care less about normal continuity, since I never liked that version of continuity anyway. After the current Crisis is over, it's going to be all different again anyway, so you know, whatever  :?
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2005, 03:36:54 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
The way I look at it is this, MY DC universe is no more, Crisis took care of that. MY Superman is no more, Man of Steel took care of him.

They will never, ever come back besides reprint TPBs.

So I really couldn't care less about normal continuity, since I never liked that version of continuity anyway. After the current Crisis is over, it's going to be all different again anyway, so you know, whatever  :?


I feel the same way you do, and agree with you, although without the sense of finality. The fact that DC has a non-history or non-continuity now does not mean that will always be so.

Like Alan Moore says, "No age lasts forever - not even a dark one."

I'm holding out for some genius - someone like Alan Moore or Kurt Busiek or even Steve Englehart if they can dust him off and restore him to life with Ancient Egyptian Rites - who is able to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2005, 03:53:55 AM »

My moneys on Darwyn Cooke.  Too bad he's been saddled with The Spirit.
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