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Author Topic: A few random Superman Speculations  (Read 25296 times)
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2005, 01:47:37 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
However, this does raise an interesting question, which is, is it possible that Superman uses an alternate power source apart from earth's sun? If so, what sort of power would it be, and what evidence could be pointed to for this phenomenon?

I prefer the notion that the yellow sun reacts with the Kryptonian / Daxamite physique as a catalyst to release energy from an extradimensional, other source.  "More sun" might be better in some way as far as how much energy comes out the back end", but it's not as if energy comes _from_ the sun.  (Of course, there might be more to the stars than we know about as far as the energy they produce...)
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NotSuper
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2005, 03:12:45 AM »

Quote from: "llozymandias"
His super-mental abilities ( memory, intelligence, etc.) are super powers.  His super-intelligence/genius makes him "more intelligent than an army of Einsteins".  When his powers are deactivated his intellect is at "ordinaray human genius" level.  Basically he is as intelligent as one to three Einsteins.  I tend to see Jor-El (on krypton) as equal to William James Sidis, Albert Einstein, or Thomas Alva Edison.

I've always believed that Superman should NATURALLY be a genius, not because he has super-intelligence. I do feel that his ability to think and learn quickly and remember everything he sees or hears would enhance his cognitive abilities, though. Plus, he has a keen knowledge of not just Kryptonian technology, but the technology from many other planets (Thanagar, Rann, Colu, ect).

That's basically what I always saw "super-intelligence" as--I believed it was just a combination of total recall and super-speed.
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Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
RedSunOfKrypton
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2005, 08:24:08 AM »

As to Superman getting his power from another source and sunlight just acting as a catalyst, the comics have hinted this is so, and that the other source is in fact THE Source.
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"...and as the fledgeling Man of Steel looks for the first time over the skyline of this city, this, Metropolis, he utters the syllables with which history is made and legends are forged: This, looks like a job...for Superman."
Captain Kal
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« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2005, 04:36:00 PM »

Hey, Super Monkey, this is a matter of straight astrophysics.

To actually blow-up the Earth means overcoming the Gravitational binding energy of the planet.  (The electromagnetic binding energies at this scale cancel out themselves so much that gravity is actually the more dominant, powerful force at this level.  Even so, EM binding energy to overcome is on the order of 65,066 sun-power seconds or 17.8 hours of its energy output.)

Gravitational binding energy in the Earth is given by the formula:

B = m**2*G/r
Where B is the binding energy in ergs
and m is the mass in grams
and G is the Gravitational Constant (6.672x10e-8Nm)
and r is the radius in centimeters.

Earth mass = 5.977 x 10e27 grams
Earth radius = 6.378 x 10e8 centimeters

Plug in the values and you get 3.73 x 10e39 ergs
which translates into 3.73 x 10e32 joules or watt/seconds.

The Sun emits 3.846 x 10e26 watts per second.

Divide the binding energy figure above by the Sun figure below and we get over 971,692 sun-power seconds -- or a bit shy of a million of them as I posted earlier.  That's the energy the Sun emits over a period of 11.25 days, FYI -- And Superman can easily generate this in less than a second.

It's like I was going to say on an older thread, just haven't got around to it.  The best writers actually know more about science and the real world than the mediocre ones.  Certainly Stanley Schmidt, editor of Analog magazine, subscribes to this, as does Jack London (author of Call of the Wild), Michael Crichton, Isaac Asimov, Larry Pournelle, and Ray Bradbury.

Some misguided people think writing is just about making stuff up and to heck with any kind of realistic grounding esp. in comics and SF.  The reality is the better writers actually are better educated than the ones trying to evade education by being writers.

Or to put it as the Dalai Lama puts it:
"Know what the rules are so you know how to break them properly."

Also, FYI, there's a reason it takes a supernova blast to blow-up a star.  The energy levels are galaxy-level which is what the grav binding energy for a star is.

Cheesy
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
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Gary
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« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2005, 07:07:59 PM »

Just a few nitpicky corrections on this, which don't really affect the end conclusion.

1) The binding energy you listed is correct for a spherical shell, where all the mass is the same distance R from the center. The Earth, however, is (roughly) a solid sphere, where much of the mass is closer to the center. It turns out the energy is actually only three-fifths of what you listed. I won't post the calculation here -- contact me privately if you really want to see it.

2) Since you are (initially) using cgs units, you should use G=6.672x10^-8 cm3 g-1 s-2. Since your final answer is right (except for the three-fifths factor mentioned above) I think you did this right but wrote it down wrong.

3) A joule is a watt-second, not a watt per second. Likewise, the sun's total output will be measured in watts or joules per second, not watts per second.

I'll also point out that only a tiny fraction of the Sun's energy actually reaches the Earth. Even a smaller amount yet would reach Superman. So you are actually looking at something like one-septillionth of the Sun's total output that Supey would have to absorb.
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Captain Kal
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2005, 07:24:30 PM »

Thanks for the corrections, Gary.  Much appreciated.

I was rushed.  I have back to back meetings and support issues today.  It's a wonder I had time to post at all.

I do miss more regular discussions.

As a further note, the Earth is a relatively small planet.  Superman could shatter planets in general which implies he's capable of this up the high end of the range which would be Krypton.  I've suggested in the past that Krypton was just shy of a brown dwarf star or 0.08 solar masses and had a radius about 1/4 that of our sun's.  Given those parameters, being able to shatter Krypton would take energy well into the supernova range or about 100 galaxies.  That does jibe with his ability to withstand supernovae and even reverse their explosions to turn them into black holes instead.
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
RedSunOfKrypton
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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2005, 04:58:06 PM »

Quote
I think your super-body control theory is a good one that would work, if not for the fact that fingertips are necessary to properly grip things, and Superman would NOT want to have butterfingers with some of the great things that he carries.
I was just thinking about this again, latex gloves effectively remove fingerprints and yet millions of people everyday the world over allow fingerprintless doctors to wield surgical instruments in delicate operations and butter fingers isn't a problem. Thoughts?
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"...and as the fledgeling Man of Steel looks for the first time over the skyline of this city, this, Metropolis, he utters the syllables with which history is made and legends are forged: This, looks like a job...for Superman."
Captain Kal
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« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2005, 03:32:07 PM »

I like RedSun's super bodily control idea esp. since it jibes with another canon concept that his super-coordination let's him use completely different signatures when he's Clark Kent vs Superman.  It's not such a stretch that he could control his body down to the cellular level at least to alter how his fingerprints appear in his different identities.

I think someone else mentioned that his invulnerability might be another explanation.  I recall that Superman Jr. once stated his body didn't have a body odour due to being half-Kryptonian.  Those super-body oils might have a tendency not to rub off on anything the way ordinary human body oils would.  That would be because they would only do so under the intermolecular attractions of equivalent super/indestructible matter which our world is not made of, so they would tend to cling more to his super-body than a drinking glass or doorknob.  OTOH, if this were true, then Clark has the problem of explaining why his human self didn't leave fingerprints behind.  Also, we've seen him shed dead skin cells in a Chemo/Metal Men story, so he likely does leave fingerprint body oils if he can shed dead skins cells too.

But maybe that pesky aura could be invoked here since we've seen it's not a passive simple energy shield but very similar to a living membrane that selectively allows waste materials out and non-fatal matter, light, and other energies in; selectively manipulating the aura could be an out here.  Though we have evidence to the contrary that he's shown little interest in investigating said aura nor learning how to manipulate it.

I lean more towards RedSun's idea here.  And another supporting bit is how the Siegel Superman had such super-body control that he not only could control his heartbeat and breathing but he also could change his very appearance.  This might still be so on the small scale of fingerprints.

It must be remembered that gloveless super-heroes besides Superman would also have this problem.  But not many super-heroes go gloveless and those that do don't have a world hungry to figure out their secret IDs.
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
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